They both got some serious game. Kobe had shown he is still an extremely effective player without shaq but Lebron has shown he could do everything himself last year. Who really is better?
I would like to see other teams defend LeBron just like they defend Kobe. I'm really curious if Lebron would still put up that kind of numbers, especially such a good shooting percentage if he would be double or triple teamed all game long. But when you watch LeBron play right now he just makes the game look so easy. He's not such a complicated player as Kobe is sometimes, but then I ask myself if that would be different if Lebron would have to face the same defensive patterns as Kobe. I really don't know whom I'd pick out of these two, but considering the pressure LeBron had to play under his whole NBA career and given a steady development I'd probably pick him ahead of Kobe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Cypher:</div><div class="quote_post">I would like to see other teams defend LeBron just like they defend Kobe. I'm really curious if Lebron would still put up that kind of numbers, especially such a good shooting percentage if he would be double or triple teamed all game long.</div> There's a reason teams don't double and triple team LeBron as much. He's a much better passer than Kobe, and if you try to trap him he'll get his teammate an easy, wide open jumper. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But when you watch LeBron play right now he just makes the game look so easy. He's not such a complicated player as Kobe is sometimes, but then I ask myself if that would be different if Lebron would have to face the same defensive patterns as Kobe. </div> That's what is so amazing about LeBron. Everything looks so effortless with him. When Kobe makes a tough play, you KNOW it was a tough play. When LeBron does it, it looks so easy and natural.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">Not tough at all. LeBron all the way.</div> Would you care to discuss your reasoning behind your answer.
Defense, looking at steals, Lebron might seem like a good defender, but man to man, he's a pretty weak defender, he gives up fairly good shooting and points to opponents, and he has the athleticism, but his defense isn't near the levels of Tmac's [yes Tmac is actually a good defender this season with him putting more defensive effort and having a coach that pays attention to defense], not to talk of Kobe's. I'd take Kobe right now, I think Lebron has surpassed him offensively overally, but defensively Kobe is still a much better player, and defense is 50% of the game. To the person that was talking about doubling Lebron, he actually does get doubled, the problem is that half the time it's going to be an easy layup or uncontested jumper, he knows how to find people, so unless the team is doubling with Ira Newble's man with Newble at the three point line, it's not the best idea.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Kobe 8 Ball:</div><div class="quote_post">If we are picking for right now, no doubt it has to be Kobe.</div> How so? I picked LeBron, because IMO, he is the MVP of the league right now. He has taken that Cleveland team and taken them to a battle for homecourt in the playoffs, and this is a team that won 17 games the season before he arrived. There are other factors of course, but everything in Cleveland revolves around LeBron James. I don't see how you could pick Kobe over him at this current point in time, unless you were a Laker fan. And mrj, how is this even a question and why do I pick LeBron? Have a look at LeBron's statline, and Cleveland's position in the standings/playoff race. And then try and comprehend that the guy is only 20. In my eyes, it's not even close.
LeBron all the way. He makes his team better rather than looking to pad his stats. He's also a better decision maker. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Cleveland trades: SF LeBron James (25.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 7.7 apg in 41.3 minutes) PG Jeff McInnis (15.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 5.5 apg in 38.4 minutes) PF Drew Gooden (14.8 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) C DeSagana Diop (0.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.3 minutes) SG Lucious Harris (5.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.9 minutes) Cleveland receives: SG Kobe Bryant (27.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 6.6 apg in 42.0 minutes) Change in team outlook: -33.7 ppg, -16.7 rpg, and -9.0 apg. L.A. Lakers trades: SG Kobe Bryant (27.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 6.6 apg in 42.0 minutes) L.A. Lakers receives: SF LeBron James (25.1 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 7.7 apg in 41.3 minutes) PG Jeff McInnis (15.1 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 5.5 apg in 38.4 minutes) PF Drew Gooden (14.8 ppg, 9.6 rpg, 1.3 apg in 31.3 minutes) C DeSagana Diop (0.9 ppg, 2.1 rpg, 0.3 apg in 9.3 minutes) SG Lucious Harris (5.3 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 0.8 apg in 16.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: +33.7 ppg, +16.7 rpg, and +9.0 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Cleveland and L.A. Lakers being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Cleveland and L.A. Lakers had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mihm4MVP:</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron all the way. He makes his team better rather than looking to pad his stats. He's also a better decision maker.</div> Dude, your posts have no backing to them at all. EXPLAIN HOW HE PADS HIS STATS. It makes you look ignorant when you say he pads them but don't give any support to back it up. I don't get where you are getting the padding stats argument from, especially because he is averaging only about 2 more shots than last year. <font color="DarkRed">(edited: the poster requests you BACK UP YOUR ARGUMENTS, Please)</font> <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">How so? I picked LeBron, because IMO, he is the MVP of the league right now. He has taken that Cleveland team and taken them to a battle for homecourt in the playoffs, and this is a team that won 17 games the season before he arrived. There are other factors of course, but everything in Cleveland revolves around LeBron James. I don't see how you could pick Kobe over him at this current point in time, unless you were a Laker fan. And mrj, how is this even a question and why do I pick LeBron? Have a look at LeBron's statline, and Cleveland's position in the standings/playoff race. And then try and comprehend that the guy is only 20. In my eyes, it's not even close.</div> You have to take in playoff experience, championship experience, who is more clutch? Who has more experience in general. Right now, that is Kobe. To say LeBron is better than Kobe right now is silly, LeBron's D is no where near that of Kobe's. The Lakers are 25-23 and have played about 11 games without Kobe. The Cavaliers are 28-20, in the east. If you put the Cavaliers in the west, one would think that their record would be something like the Lakers record.
^ Those are all assumptions. You have no idea where the Cavs would be in the West, or where the Lakers would be in the East or with Kobe for the entire season. Why do I have to consider championship and playoff experience? The question was who is the better player, and right now I say LeBron. Kobe has three rings - hooray, good for him. Let's have a party. He can love and care for those rings the rest of his life, I'm still taking LeBron.
You can take your player, I will take mine. Kobe is the better player in a lot of people's opinions, not just mine. Kobe can score at will and plays great D. While LeBron on the other hand can score at will and play average D. LeBron shares the ball, so does Kobe. Would I take LeBron in the future, say in about 2-3 years? Yes, no doubt.
LeBron shares the ball, so does Kobe. I agree with that. However in my eyes, and a lot of other eyes, LeBron's first thought is the team thing. His first thought down the floor is always "What can I do for the team here? What action here is best for the team?". You can quote all the assist numbers you like for me, I would never say the same for Kobe. He is simply not as unselfish and team oriented as LeBron James is. It's not a criticism, as he is a scorer, but he doesn't have that particular quality like LeBron has. It's not something you necessarily learn, it's something you have naturally. It's what makes LJ so special.
I can agree with that. LeBron always has that team first mentality, while Kobe has it off and on. If Kobe had it on more, then I believe the Lakers would be a better team, not by a lot, but a better team.
Kobe 8 Ball, you don't want to argue with me. The last time that happened you went crying and got me a warning after you were the one making the insults. So please, for your sake and mine, quit trying to initiate contact with me and trying to get me in trouble.
I am not initiating contact with you, I want to know why you feel Kobe is padding his stats, this is a place to debate. You post statements, but you don't back it up, all I want for you to do is to back it up.
The fact remains that you want to get into arguments, insult me, and get me a warning for responding back. Quit initiating contact. I don't need to be getting warnings because I was responding to another members insults. Last time, <u>quit</u> <u>initiating</u> <u>contact</u>.
I would take Kobe Bryant over LeBron James. You can look at stats all day, but they don't amount to much unless you are playing fantasy basketball. Kobe Bryant is a proven winner and is one of the clutch players in the NBA. Kobe is the superior scorer and defender. Kobe Bryant has a better perimeter game than LeBron James, and has the post game LeBron lacks. They can both finish and drive to the rim, so I wouldn't give the edge to either. Kobe is a student of the game and improves his skills every off-season. Right now it's easy to overlook Kobe because he's injured, and LeBron is having a great season. I think the 'team' first approach is a double edged sword for LeBron. He doesn't have the killer instinct to close out games the way Kobe does. He would rather defer those shots to a teammate. Kobe on the other hand wants to take the tough shots, and can dominate a game on both ends of the court. If you break it down player to player, as of today, Kobe is hands down the more skilled of the two.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">How so?I picked LeBron, because IMO, he is the MVP of the league right now. He has taken that Cleveland team and taken them to a battle for homecourt in the playoffs, and this is a team that won 17 games the season before he arrived.</div> They also won 33 games last season. It's not as if LeBron James just came and the team automatically started doing badly. There were many trades that took place like the one for Jeff McInnis. Remember before he came where Cleveland was? Now remember when he got injuried last year, how badly did they struggle, obviously enough for them to miss the playoffs. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There are other factors of course, but everything in Cleveland revolves around LeBron James. I don't see how you could pick Kobe over him at this current point in time, unless you were a Laker fan.</div> I don't know. James is a great player and all but, not everything revolves around James. He is a focal point in the offense but the role players are very important additions to the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And mrj, how is this even a question and why do I pick LeBron? Have a look at LeBron's statline, and Cleveland's position in the standings/playoff race. And then try and comprehend that the guy is only 20. In my eyes, it's not even close.</div> Yeah but, the Cavaliers are playing in the WEAK eastern conference. The brawl also helped LeBron's cause. Had Artest been around and Jackson minus the 30 games he missed, the Pacers would have taken the central. This means that the Cavaliers would have had 6th plae in the east. Paul Silas himself even admitted their success in the east was due to the Pacers/Pistons brawl. Mihm4Mvp, what does that trade have to do with anything? James and McInnis, and Drew Gooden combined will give you better numbers than Kobe alone. I really don?t see where you?re going with that. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">^ Those are all assumptions. You have no idea where the Cavs would be in the West, or where the Lakers would be in the East or with Kobe for the entire season. Why do I have to consider championship and playoff experience? The question was who is the better player, and right now I say LeBron. Kobe has three rings - hooray, good for him. Let's have a party. He can love and care for those rings the rest of his life, I'm still taking LeBron.</div> Well what if you took Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Radmanovic, Daniels, and Fortson off the Sonics do you think they?ll struggle? They probably will?even though I?m only assuming. The Cavaliers would probably not be doing as well in the west, while the Lakers would probably be doing much better in the east. I?ll take LeBron over Kobe too but, right now as I write, Kobe Bryant is better. Let?s not confuse his magnificent future with, what he is right now. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Supersonic:</div><div class="quote_post">LeBron shares the ball, so does Kobe. I agree with that. However in my eyes, and a lot of other eyes, LeBron's first thought is the team thing. His first thought down the floor is always "What can I do for the team here? What action here is best for the team?". You can quote all the assist numbers you like for me, I would never say the same for Kobe. He is simply not as unselfish and team oriented as LeBron James is. It's not a criticism, as he is a scorer, but he doesn't have that particular quality like LeBron has. It's not something you necessarily learn, it's something you have naturally. It's what makes LJ so special.</div> Okay, that?s a great quality from James. Is he really as clutch as Kobe? NO, does he have the same experience as Kobe? NO is his defense as good as James? NO. James will become a very great player in the near future he?s just not as good as Kobe right now, plain and simple.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">They also won 33 games last season. It's not as if LeBron James just came and the team automatically started doing badly. There were many trades that took place like the one for Jeff McInnis. Remember before he came where Cleveland was? Now remember when he got injuried last year, how badly did they struggle, obviously enough for them to miss the playoffs.</div> The kid was a rookie. Cleveland improved as much as they did on the back of LeBron James, it was inevitable they would tire out. It wasn't like Melo in Denver where they had a completely different team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know. James is a great player and all but, not everything revolves around James. He is a focal point in the offense but the role players are very important additions to the team.</div> I'm not disputing roleplayers are important. Odom, Butler, Atkins and Mihm have all been important to the Lakers this season, but that shouldn't take away from Kobe's standing as the lead role. My point is LeBron James is an enigma. He's the biggest young sporting star to hit America since Tiger Woods. More often than not, when you're thinking NBA, you're thinking about LeBron at some point. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah but, the Cavaliers are playing in the WEAK eastern conference. The brawl also helped LeBron's cause. Had Artest been around and Jackson minus the 30 games he missed, the Pacers would have taken the central. This means that the Cavaliers would have had 6th plae in the east. Paul Silas himself even admitted their success in the east was due to the Pacers/Pistons brawl.</div> Oh did he? Well we'd better discount them then and anything they achieve. Does this make LeBron dropping 43 on the Pistons irrelevant? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well what if you took Ray Allen, Rashard Lewis, Radmanovic, Daniels, and Fortson off the Sonics do you think they?ll struggle? They probably will?even though I?m only assuming. The Cavaliers would probably not be doing as well in the west, while the Lakers would probably be doing much better in the east.</div> What's that prove? That if you take five key players off a team they'll struggle? Oh, thanks for that, Einstein. You're assuming. Right now the Cavs are doing well in the East, and it's down to a kid just out of his teens. Would the Pistons have won the title last season if they have to come through the Western Conference Playoffs? Who knows, but that doesn't mean their title is any less significant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I?ll take LeBron over Kobe too but, right now as I write, Kobe Bryant is better. Let?s not confuse his magnificent future with, what he is right now.</div> I'm not confusing anything. It scares me watching James now, just for how good he'll be in the future. But right now he is unstoppable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, that?s a great quality from James. Is he really as clutch as Kobe? NO, does he have the same experience as Kobe? NO is his defense as good as James? NO. James will become a very great player in the near future he?s just not as good as Kobe right now, plain and simple.</div> I'm interested to know where people are getting this tripe that LeBron isn't clutch? Who have you been watching this season? The ball is always in the hands of LJ at the end of games, and IMO I'd rather it be in the hands of him to Kobe, as defenders have absolutely no idea what's going to happen. LeBron WILL get to the hole at will, if you put too many out to cover him, he WILL find an open man. I read somewhere on here that the Cavs defer from LeBron in crunchtime. The only time LeBron doesn't have the ball in crunchtime is when he's found a teammate with a better look himself. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">He did it against the Celtics this year. He had the ball in his hands with a chance to win it....but he had 2 guys all over him. He ended up making an insane pass to Z for an open layup.</div> But he didn't take the shot himself with three guys on him. How un-clutch is that.
