Kobe or Lebron? Toughy

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">KOBE BRYANT!!!! How is this even a question! </div>


Gotta dissagree. Even if age wasnt a factor I'd say LBJ is the better player skill wise. He's the smarter player and he's the less selfish player. All that at the age of 20 aint bad at all.

 

WHY? The fact that James is more team oriented doesn't make him a better player. I don't even know if he has better skills. James will probably be better than Kobe in the future but, he isn't now! The rings, the game winners, the experience, the skills, and eveything make him better than James. Age is irrelevant to the question why bring up that he's 20?

 

Kobe < LeBron

and dont bring up rings, give LeBron ya boy Shaquille, see what happens mayne HA

 

Please back that statement up! Dafuture2K5

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Please back that statement up! Dafuture2K5</div>

Uhm hes clearly saying that if LeBron had Shaq then they would be an even greater force than Kobe and Shaq were and I agree. LeBron is a team player. Kobe is a me player. LeBron and Shaq would be able to co-exist. Also LeBron is the leader of his team. Kobe wasn't even the leader of his team! Who got those 3 Final MVPs? Yes it was Shaq. And don't bring up no competition crap because Shaq played against the Defensive player of the year in Dikembe that one year. Also Kobe was dominated by Tayshuan Prince in the Finals. Shaq was against a former 2 time defensive player of the year in Ben Wallace. Shaq dominated.

So all this leads to is that if LeBron has had arguably the greatest center the game has ever seen to play on his team then he would have some rings. LeBrons second option is Big Z. Kobe had Shaq. BIG difference.

Also did you check their FG % lately? LeBron is up my almost 10 whole % points!

 

Was anybody watching the Lakers-Cavs game? Did you see how when Lebron was being double teamed how he would PASS the ball? Kobe has a lot to learn about being part of a "team". Missing 14 FGs didn't help us neither. Today, the better player's team won. LeBron > Kobe hands down.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Ace2k2:</div><div class="quote_post">Uhm hes clearly saying that if LeBron had Shaq then they would be an even greater force than Kobe and Shaq were and I agree. LeBron is a team player. Kobe is a me player. LeBron and Shaq would be able to co-exist. Also LeBron is the leader of his team. Kobe wasn't even the leader of his team! Who got those 3 Final MVPs? Yes it was Shaq. And don't bring up no competition crap because Shaq played against the Defensive player of the year in Dikembe that one year. Also Kobe was dominated by Tayshuan Prince in the Finals. Shaq was against a former 2 time defensive player of the year in Ben Wallace. Shaq dominated.</div>
Shaq is unstoppable. This isn't about Shaq, it's about Kobe against LeBron. The fact that Shaq won the championship and was the MVP is irrelevant to the question. Kobe has a scoring mentality while James has a pass first one. What's wrong with that? Kobe is a better scorer than James is a better passer. The fact that Kobe has rings isn't the only reason. The experience taht he got earning those rings makes Kobe better. James doesn't have Shaq, and your whole argument is based on if. We are saying who's better now, not who would be if, or who will be in the future.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So all this leads to is that if LeBron has had arguably the greatest center the game has ever seen to play on his team then he would have some rings. LeBrons second option is Big Z. Kobe had Shaq. BIG difference.</div>
How do you know that? LeBron has proven to be a good player but, not as good as Kobe. He doesn't play that great defense, is not as clutch, and hasn't done things as spectacular as Kobe.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Also did you check their FG % lately? LeBron is up my almost 10 whole % points!</div>
Okay, James has a whole bunch of help playing in the weaker conference with the Pacers out, and a struggling Detroit. Kobe is leading a team in the harder conference with not as much help as James. His % has dropped but, even if that were the case, his whole career evens it up.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mihm4MVP:</div><div class="quote_post">Was anybody watching the Lakers-Cavs game? Did you see how when Lebron was being double teamed how he would PASS the ball? Kobe has a lot to learn about being part of a "team". Missing 14 FGs didn't help us neither. Today, the better player's team won. LeBron > Kobe hands down.</div>
are you for real???

If James missed 30 straight days with a severe ankle sprain, do you think he will do as well?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> are you for real???

If James missed 30 straight days with a severe ankle sprain, do you think he will do as well?</div>Kobe's been shooting crappy %s all season and you're using his injury as an excuse?

I'll even reference it for you:

Kobe Season AVG: 8.4FGM 20.7FGA

Source: http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3118

end of discussion.

Kobe 8 Ball, I already told you get off my...

 

""Kobe wasn't even the leader of his team! Who got those 3 Final MVPs? Yes it was Shaq. And don't bring up no competition crap because Shaq played against the Defensive player of the year in Dikembe that one year.""

you have to be kidding me.... Did you even watch any of the finals games? The first series Kobe single handedly saved the lakers title hopes against Indy when shaq fould out....kobe should have been awarded 1 maybe 2 of the 3 finals mvp's, even the announcers calling the game said so. Was no secret.

whats this whole "kobe>lebron" thing with the ">" that supposed to be some new internet thing that makes you cool? hah "smh".

If the better man's team won the game....what happend last time they played?? ....shhhh LA won. sleep tite.

either way you slice it.....a Kobe/Lebron ...Kobe/Jordan....Kobe/Tmac ...all of them arguments are pointless....like i said, noones right and noones wrong. Mere opinions, and everyone has one.

Lebron has had 1 good year so far.....and people are quick to compare him to kobe and mike....like i said, he hasnt even played in a playoff game yet. let the young buck crawl before he walks cause cleveland will never win a ring with just lebron, so dont worry yourself about it.

DMK

 

Lebron By Far Kobe Is The Player who wants the ball to himself and added bonus Lebron is only 20

 

<u>A few things:</u>

Lebron will not falter to an ego later in his career, I've not heard of that happening to anyone, I don't see why that's going to happen to him, what kind of argument is that? Like someone previously mentioned, if Lebron would've faltered to an ego, it would've happened already. You don't unmature as you get older.

The supporting cast shouldn't be as huge a factor as some are making it, Kobe having Lebron's supporting cast isn't going to bring his FG% to +49% considering he hasn't even shot 49% before in his career, or bring his turnovers down 1-2 turnovers a game.

The Cavs hardly have a better starting lineup, but for every complain about a Chris Mihm, or a Laker player not hitting open shots, Ira Newble is a starter and is just defense, nothing else, Eric Snow has never been known for his shooting, and the Cavs have a pretty short bench.

A big complaint that many players have is not having shooters to spread the floor for them. The Cavs have no shooters to spread the floor out for Lebron, yet he is able to cope and shoot a very high percentage without anyone to spread the floor. McInnis can hit three's, but isn't a shooter, and is inconsistent with outside shots, I don't think I have to say anything for Gooden and Ilguaskas, Ira Newble can't hit an open shot if his life depended on it, Eric Snowm please, he's improved to having a career high 31% 3PT, and Lucious Harris is shooting 28.8% from three. The Cavs don't have a Fred Hoiberg, Matt Bonner, or Brian Cook etc...who shoot jumpers like layups and you know will almost always hit that open shot.

I don't buy players not hitting shots as an excuse because that happens to every team, the Cavs players don't shoot exactly their FG% every game, every team has inconsistent players, if not the Wizards would be #1 in the league . If Lebron's teammates also hit 50% of the shots he created for them, he'd be averaging 12 assists a game. If the Raptors players hit half the open shots Carter set up for them last season, he would've averaged 7 assists a game, but that's different because Jalen had an injured hand, and Michael Curry and Milt Palacio were on the team, guys who should've never been shooting.

Bench wise, neither team is super in that area, the Cavs didn't play their bench much early on, but got a surprise [though many felt he was a steal including me] in Anderson Varejao and had him playing good minutes till he got injured. Their bench consists or Snow, Harris and Traylor, while the Lakers who also had bench injuries with George, Slava, Divac have a bench of Cook, Jones, Tierre [geez], Grant, and Walton.

Overall, their's hardly any margin between the supporting casts of either team, the Lakers supporting cast is more capable of surviving without Kobe than the Cavs would without Lebron as they have 2 guys in Odom and Butler that can be go to scorers, and Chucky Atkins with Kobe out was averaging 16+ points, 6 assists or so, and shooting in the 48% range. The Cavs lineup would only have Ilguaskas, but they'd have better setup players with Snow and McInnis.

Saying Lebron is putting the numbers against the East is also a weak argument, the Western conference isn't the better defensive conference. 2 of the 3 best defensive teams in the league [Bulls and Pistons] are in the East, and the East has just as much defense as the West, so it isn't easier to put up big numbers or score vs the East.

Clutch-wise, from previous years, Kobe has been very clutch, but as Kobe's killer instinct can help him take over games and hit big shots, it also hurts because he doesn't want to differ to others to close out a game. This season though, Kobe hasn't shown much of his clutch ability, it's much harder to hit big shots when all game the other team has been going after you and you're tired, but that's what other star perimeter players have gone through their whole career. Lebron has hit big shots, and Lebron has setup teammates to hit shots, and unlike last season, he knows when and how to take over when needed. Even one of the first games in the season, he hit a three over Artest to send their game vs the Pacers into OT, and then their's the setup to Z for the three, and he's also had many other clutch moments.

I've said Kobe is better mostly on one thing, <u>defense</u>. His defense is very good, though he hasn't been checking the other teams best perimeter player most of the time, he's played good defense. The flipside is that though Lebron's defense is hardly there in terms of on the ball, the margin between them overall is very minimal at this point. Kobe is the better scorer, he's a much more skilled scorer than Lebron, but Lebron is the better offensive player, and also vastly more efficient in his scoring.

Kobe is a better scorer because he's just so skilled at putting the ball in the basket, but overall offensively, Lebron would get the edge. Remember, Kobe was on pace to beat the turnovers in a season record if he didn't get injured. Lebron has much more of a pass first mentality as Kobe is a scorer instead. Assists per game numbers don't support a player being unselfish, but as a scorer, you do need to be selfish, but decision making and picking your spots is very important. Marbury averaged 8-9 assists, and people called him selfish because he was always the player that either shot or passed. Kobe has passing as more of a last option, even in tough situations, and that should'nt be the case. Kobe is the player that 70% of the time he's on the floor will be shooting or passing, so he will get a high amount of assists, as any player put in that position will, but he's not doing it efficiently at all. New players, new coach, new team, those aren't enough exuses to average 4.4 turnovers a game while also shooting such a low percentage from the field. Again, this happens to other players too, so he's not the first guy to get a new coach, players, system, get double teamed etc...

With Lebron's massive improvements in one year, and his work ethic, it's pretty inevitable for him to become a good defender, I don't know how good he'll get though, but he can be a good one. In a year's time, I think Lebron would've surpassed Kobe overall, I don't know if he will be as good an on ball defender, but his game will likely start to creep above Kobe's.

<u>Kobe is the better player right now</u>, though if I was to choose for this season, I'd take Lebron myself. Kobe is the more skilled player overall, but I won't say put in the same situation he would win more games than Lebron because a players mentality comes into play. Basketball is as much mental as it is skills. Kobe and Lebron would need different types of supporting casts to fit to their styles of play, and I'd say Lebron is more versatile in being put into different supporting cast situations.

 

^^^^ Finally some logical valid points.

I dont think i would disagree with much of anything you said, except for Not many players in the league get triple teamed like kobe does, and ive seen my share of wide open bricks off of kobe setups.

But i like your post and thats well enough for me to end my part in this discussion.

DMK

 

^ One of the best posts I've ever read Og, I agree with everything except the last bit about Kobe being better.

Webber has been averaging around 11 assists per game in February, and people still call him selfish. You will get assists if you have the ball in your hands as much as Kobe does, that's inevitable.

And mrj, I'm not gonna respond to your post as we both have different opinions and I respect that, I can't see me convincing you and vice versa. But don't bring up that streak of 40 point games, I still remember him against the Sonics trying to keep his streak going by hogging the ball and taking shots out of the flow of the offense. He got ripped by Phil, and it was obvious he was playing for himself and his stats.

 

ima cut in one last time... lol

Many people throw the 40pt streak around, and many discount it.... Either way, <u>Kobe Bryant scored 40+ points in 9 straight NBA Games.</u> Thats Phenominal any way you slice it. It is also something i dont expect to ever see again, only MJ and Wilt have done that. Kobe scored 13 straight 35+pt games during that streak, only Wilt had more. Everyone was on kobes nuts and rightfully so.

Anyone have a clue how hard that is to do? Many great players to ever play the game havent scored 9 40 pt games collectivly in their careers, let alone in 9 consecutive games. No basketball fan should discredit that in anyway, regaurdless if you hate kobe or not...that was one of the most incredable streaks of all time, plain and simple. But as always, ignorance will discredit it everytime. To get a grasp of how difficult it is to do.... any NBA player that has 2 consecutive...3 in a row, even 4 its unreal. Scoring 40 pts in a NBA game itself is great.

 

I have no doubt if LeBron wanted to or needed to, he could score 40 at will.

However that is merely an assumption with nothing but my personal opinion backing it.