<div class="quote_poster">Quoting custodianrules2:</div><div class="quote_post">I read about the rumor too, I don't know how credible it is and Keith Van Horn is pretty soft, inconsistent and worthless on defense as Dunleavy, but the plus side is he can shoot big shots, rebound, and post up. I like Dunleavy a little bit more now since he's playing extremely aggressive, but it can't last forever, like when Murphy returns or we start playing teams that give a darn on defense we have the dilemma again about inconsistency, lack of ball movement, Dunleavy sleepwalking on defense and not scoring from the 3, and inconsistent outside shooting and not playing to Dunleavy's strengths, etc... If we get value out of a player that doesn't really fit on this squad now for let's say a possible uprotected top 3 pick (which is highly in doubt), I'd do it. Besides, Zarko makes Dunleavy somewhat expendable and buys us some time on the next contract to sign. Also, about Michael Redd, he is pretty much the same way on defense except he's probably considered an average defender to most because he's not a "tweener" like Dunleavy or Van Horn is, he can handle the ball and he can sure light it up shot after shot and make very difficult shots which makes him an exciting player. If we do trade Dunleavy, it's gotta be for a player in which we have the freedom to keep or let go because I don't see us keeping Michael Redd long enough to trade him this season when the deadline's already over. He can walk in the offseason and I doubt he'd want to be a Warrior when he has a chance to move closer to home and be Lebron's sidekick. I say don't do it, unless we get the rights to TJ Ford (who could be outstanding for us after his tailbone surgery). Van Horn is around for only 2005-2006 and would probably be our next big expiring contract we can move next season. I just don't see this trade really doing much for us, though, and it could be one of those "get something rather than nothing" type deals. But it's not a huge risk since we basically get another chance to sell someone an expiring deal for Van Horn next season and we would get a Speedy Claxton type player who the real Speedy Mullin is sure not to re-sign after he just gave Fisher, Murphy, Richardson and Foyle ridiculous contracts. Out of all of them Richardson is the only one who is playing up to it. And Murphy is looking bad because he's doing Fortson rebounding, and impersonating the tweener Jamison on offense and defense without the inside scoring and is a candidate to being the next Wally Sczerbiak for us once we find that power forward who can defend, score down low, rebound, and block shots. We'll have to see next season how Murphy will fit on the squad, because it makes more sense to play him at center and have some Elton Brand type player do the duties on defense. Then we'll at least have scoring come from 5 positions rather than just 4. That is if we don't get Andrew Bogut and we get somebody like Chris Taft in this year's draft. Also the thing that doesn't make sense about the rights to TJ Ford is we may be high enough to justify Chris Paul as the player to get instead of Bogut. Bogut is projected for some to be a power forward in the nba rather than a center. Given the demand for polished big men and point guards, Bogut and Paul both sound good because of their skillset and one has size and the potential to get even stronger and the other has speed and hard to find court vision and leadership qualities.</div> What about this Custodian, Golden State trades: C Dale Davis (2.8 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 15.9 minutes) PF Clifford Robinson (8.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.8 apg in 26.1 minutes) PG Derek Fisher (12.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 28.9 minutes) SF Mike Dunleavy (12.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 2.7 apg in 32.7 minutes) Golden State receives: SF Keith Van Horn (11.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 26.6 minutes) SG Michael Redd (22.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.9 minutes) T.J. Ford (No games yet played in 2004/05) C Daniel Santiago (1.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.9 minutes) PF Zendon Hamilton (3.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.9 minutes) Change in team outlook: +1.6 ppg, -0.5 rpg, and -4.9 apg. Milwaukee trades: SF Keith Van Horn (11.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.4 apg in 26.6 minutes) SG Michael Redd (22.2 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 2.5 apg in 37.9 minutes) T.J. Ford (No games yet played in 2004/05) C Daniel Santiago (1.5 ppg, 1.8 rpg, 0.0 apg in 11.9 minutes) PF Zendon Hamilton (3.0 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.4 apg in 10.9 minutes) Milwaukee receives: C Dale Davis (2.8 ppg, 4.2 rpg, 0.7 apg in 15.9 minutes) PF Clifford Robinson (8.7 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.8 apg in 26.1 minutes) PG Derek Fisher (12.0 ppg, 2.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 28.9 minutes) SF Mike Dunleavy (12.6 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 2.7 apg in 32.7 minutes) Change in team outlook: -1.6 ppg, +0.5 rpg, and +4.9 apg. TRADE ACCEPTED Due to Golden State and Milwaukee being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and Milwaukee had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement We get Ford, and we get rid of Fisher, we keep Hamilton and waive Fizer. What are your guys thoughts
To get rid of Fisher? Hell yeah. Hamilton is not that bad of a player. He plays both ends of the court at least, even if his game is forgetable. The good thing is if the trade goes off in time, we can move Redd to a contender for young talent. I don't think Mully will deal for a disgruntled star... Hopefully Mullin won't do something dumb like Redd for Bender or Tskitishivilli without taking Nene or Ron Artest with him. We better get a good deal.
How does the trade help them, though? Unless they think Dunleavy is the real deal and the free agent market this offseason is good in their eyes. I just don't think it's legit unless a third team is involved. A contender.
^ I think they are rebuling and what better way to start then getting a young SF that could thrive in the east? Also they get two expiring contracts and a PG that could be their leader and best player
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting J-Rich23:</div><div class="quote_post">^I think Mullin is smart enough to sign Redd back, if we can get a good lineup, Redd might go for it and sign back</div> I don't think Mullin could pull that off when Redd can go to contending teams that need him more. We already have a shooting guard and our defense would suffer because of him and Jrich playing small forward at 6'4. Pacers would love to have him, so would Denver, so would the Cavs, The Heat could use him, Bulls could use him. But the bulls probably wouldn't do it because they are not a contender. Pacers, Heat, Cavs could be legit Denver under Coach Karl could change things around, especially when they find a shooter. I don't think the Heat have anything good unless we get Damon Jones, Dorrell Wright, and they take Fisher and remove Foyle. We would probably have to take on Doleac if we were to get rid of Foyle/Fisher. No thanks. Redd/Fisher just for DJ + Wright sounds mediocre. Pacers could give us Ron Artest (do we want to that?) or Jonathan Bender (no thanks we've already got enough injuries). The cavs just don't have anybody we want I mean Pavlocic for Redd we wouldn't like /Diop for Foyle they probably wouldn't like and we'd have to extend his contract this offseason. Ugh... Luke Jackson I wouldn't mind, but he's more of a guard than a forward. We still lose alot of leverage because Redd won't be a Warrior for long if the trade rumor does go through and its actually not a three way.
Yes, I want Ron Artest. I also would want Redd to stay long term. From what I know of him (not too much really) he's a really nice guy who isn't playing this game for money. He'd fit in nicely with our "choir boys", and Mullin would pay him what Redd himself would consider more than enough. *Crosses fingers*
the bucks arn't giving up ford, that is a pipe dream....especially when they would get fisher for him. before he got injured he was there leader and was playing great.
Well you can't pay your players too much, why do you think the Knicks are virtually stuck with oft injured, two time allstar Allan Houston. The Warriors have to create flexibility for themselves in the future in addition to improving their record, otherwise there's no improvements long term and end up pulling the plug again. The management has had a hell of a time trying to rebuild this organization it would be plain dumb to overpay to keep him. As good as he is when we have an allstar caliber 2 guard already, and another promising 2 guard behind him, it doesn't make sense to keep him and he's unrestricted. Unless we do a sign and trade thing which I don't know if it will work... we could get something back in the offseason when the trade deadline is over. That's of course assuming we get Redd and the Bucks know he won't re-sign with them and they want Dunleavy that badly.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Map1986:</div><div class="quote_post">the bucks arn't giving up ford, that is a pipe dream....especially when they would get fisher for him. before he got injured he was there leader and was playing great.</div> But Mullin would try to push to get him in other ways, I bet (think Speedy Claxton). If he gets Ford somehow and we don't give up our pick. Assuming he is healthy next season after his spinal surgery, we could get a high draft pick like Andrew Bogut (who has drawn comparrisons to Brad Miller/Tim Duncan) or some other big man. I don't think that small forward from UNC is declaring this year so Bogut is a good option unless Mullin thinks Tiago Splitter is worth looking at or wants to take on another project like Martynas Andriuskevicius for an Illgauskus type center. Frankly if Bogut can hang and defend at power forward, that's a huge weapon. Murphy along side him wouldn't be bad if he develops some post game as well and we get better perimeter and help defenders.
If this trade did happen that would mean this team would have to play small ball. Redd at the 2, JRich @ the 3. As much as I like Redd, this deal ain't happening. Milwaukee could get a much better deal from Chicago, Minnesota or Denver. Trading for Redd would be nice but we need a big. I'd only trade Dunleavy for a big. I know Dunleavy's not great but he is pretty good, makes a cheap salary and is young. If we didn't have a big to score inside we'd still have the same problems as we do now and Redd would leave anyway. He'd be a moron to stay. He'd stay with a 30 win team and not even make the max while he could go to a contender and make the max? We would be stuck with a washed up version of Mike Dunleavy in KVH and stuck in salary hell. Then Mullin's reputation would be worse than St. Jean.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Map1986:</div><div class="quote_post">GSWScruff redd is going to be an unrestricted FA</div> Yipes. Ok, the only way any sane GM (yeah, I'm giving Mullin the benefit of a big doubt) would touch this deal is if Redd is immediately routed to another team, like the Nene deal that Custodian proposed. There is absolutely no way we can resign Redd, and trading for him to play with us for the last couple months of a washed up season is just plain silly. Any GM who would make that deal should be castrated. That way he wouldn't be able to make any little GM's who would inevitably further screw up our franchise.
Redd sign and trade in the offseason would probably end with us getting Jerome Williams + two draft picks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting upsidedownside7:</div><div class="quote_post">If this trade did happen that would mean this team would have to play small ball. Redd at the 2, JRich @ the 3. As much as I like Redd, this deal ain't happening. Milwaukee could get a much better deal from Chicago, Minnesota or Denver. Trading for Redd would be nice but we need a big. I'd only trade Dunleavy for a big. I know Dunleavy's not great but he is pretty good, makes a cheap salary and is young. If we didn't have a big to score inside we'd still have the same problems as we do now and Redd would leave anyway. He'd be a moron to stay. He'd stay with a 30 win team and not even make the max while he could go to a contender and make the max? We would be stuck with a washed up version of Mike Dunleavy in KVH and stuck in salary hell. Then Mullin's reputation would be worse than St. Jean.</div> Don't forget Mullin would most likely overpay Dunleavy for potential. "How does 72 million, 6 years sound, Mike?" <snicker> He'll be Austin Croshere and Keith Van Horn contracts all in one except Dun hasn't play big in any nba finals game. Money mismanagement ends up killing this team, always. And it's just so damned predictable.
"Draft Gurus" project a lot of guys as a smaller position than they likely will play,indeed Brian Grant and Kurt Thomas have often been centers though they aer not even big forwards,in this case,Bogut is the only guy who right now has size and proven skills to play center and as he'd be a likely top 5 pick,and the 5 worst teams can use an upgrade at C,that is what he will be. The 7-3 Lithuanian with the long name is still pretty raw and thin. As is, he would not help us at all. Having Biedrens already as a project,taking another would be nuts. I can't see Redd as a move that works now. Redd is a 2 guard as are Richardson and Pietrus. Van Horn once had the same label as Dunleavy,a guy with size as well as small-man skills like deep range and passing. Van Horn has had his chances to actually meet those expectations and has not. Dunleavy,however,is still learning and while I don't see him as ever being a star,he is a notch beyond Van Horn now,and he is one of the few guys we could perhaps deal for a real keeper. As to the Draft,Bogut or Sheldon Williams could most help the W's. Chris Paul dissappointed me last time I saw him. There are PG's like Aaron Myles and Nate Robinson who could be Rd 2 and be about as good as Paul. It is not a good crop of point guards in terms of lottery level types,but there will be late picks who are decent,can be good depth
Van Horn has had his chance and he's on the downside while making $16M per year for the next what 4 years? Do you really want that? Nope. Redd? Another guy who is going to cost about 12-14M per year. He's a great guy, good shooter, but he's not someone you can build a team around. Mike D? He's young, developing and he's not going to cost as much as others. Those are the type of guys you keep, not some castoffs from some other organization. We already know what Van Horn can do and how much he costs, that's what the deal would be, Dunleavy for Van Horn and Redd for 3 mos. Not smart.
Exactly, we don't need more Allan Houstons and Eddie Jones' of the nba. If Mike D continues to do well for us and has little interest in the league by the time he's extended, he could pretty useful to us in one or two positions. I think ideally he would be awesome off the bench because our bench kind of sucks and we need somebody to create some kind of offense. But you never know what the offseason market will do in terms of raising the prices to keep our own guys. I mean Foyle and Fisher are prime examples and now nobody wants their terrible contracts.
Guys, this trade doesn't make any sense for the Warriors. Besides ending up with three shooting guards (Richardson, Redd, and Pietrus) and no sf, the Warriors cannot possibly resign Redd next offseason. The Warriors payroll next year will be around 44 mil, which should be right at the salary cap. All they'd be able to offer Redd is the mid level exception, basically the same contract that Fisher has now. Other teams are going to offer more, and even if by some miracle they didn't, Redd could still leave for any team he wanted (even going back to the Bucks) because of his unrestricted free agent status. The Warriors can't make any wink wink deals with Redd, because in addition to it being totally illegal, they aren't going to have any significant salary cap space for the next few years because of the long term deals for Richardson, Murphy, Foyle, Fisher, and Najera. Look, Redd is a great player, but you have to accept the fact that he's not going to be a Warrior. My guess is he ends up in Cleveland next year.
Woah guys slow down. The Bucks aren't going to trade TJ Ford unless they are 100% positive that he will never play again. If they have any chance that he's coming back, they are keeping him. You don't want Zendon Hamilton, he's a worthless scrub big just like Santiago. Marcus Fizer has been real solid off the bench for the Bucks. They wouldn't take Fisher's long contract because we are trying to free up space, and already have 2-3 PGs locked up next year in Mo Williams, Mike James and TJ.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting gmanspack:</div><div class="quote_post">Woah guys slow down. The Bucks aren't going to trade TJ Ford unless they are 100% positive that he will never play again. If they have any chance that he's coming back, they are keeping him. You don't want Zendon Hamilton, he's a worthless scrub big just like Santiago. Marcus Fizer has been real solid off the bench for the Bucks. They wouldn't take Fisher's long contract because we are trying to free up space, and already have 2-3 PGs locked up next year in Mo Williams, Mike James and TJ.</div> Yeah I figured TJ Ford was too much of a blue chip to give up. You guys like Mo Williams?
