<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">DENVER - Isiah Thomas stood in the middle of the Knicks' locker room like a boxing referee, directing Stephon Marbury and Kurt Thomas to return to their respective corners. "I'm not trading you and I'm not trading you," Thomas, the Knicks president, supposedly shouted at his two feuding players following a win over the Cleveland Cavaliers three weeks ago. "So what do you want me to do?" According to one eyewitness, Kurt Thomas came up with a short-term solution: "Just move out of the way so I can kick his butt." Say this about the Knicks, they may be down in the dumps and headed straight for the NBA draft lottery, but there is never a dull moment around Madison Square Garden, especially since Thomas arrived in town 14 months ago. The Knicks are 21-32 and tied with the Toronto Raptors for fourth place in the Atlantic Division, six games behind first-place Boston. Their high-water mark was 16-13 on New Year's Eve, when Marbury made his comment about being the league's best point guard. The flippant remark - Marbury was merely trying to articulate that a player of his stature must have the confidence to consider himself the best - has evolved into the turning point of the season.</div> Source
Kieth Van Horn, Kendall Gill, Kenyon Martin, there was even rumors of Amare Stoudamire down in PHX, now Kurt Thomas all hated Marbury as a teammate. Marbury just isnt a guy that others trust in leading them, his style of game is hard to adjust to because alot of these guys arent use to playing alongside PG's who dominate the ball like Steph does...I think this is just another point in a long line that goes to the fact Steph is a great talent but should never be the best player on your team.
I'll tell you what even though they had that verbal confrontation they looked good on the court... marbury still gave passes to Kurt
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">"I'm not trading you and I'm not trading you," Thomas, the Knicks president, supposedly shouted.</div> I could careless about the fight, but this comment caught my attention. I thought Kurt Thomas was a shoe-in to be traded before the deadline. The Knicks don't stand a chance making the playoffs and KT is definitely not in their long term plans. A lot of teams are interested in him and he has great trade value. Isiah is tough to get a read on, he should enter a Texas Hold 'Em tournament.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Henacy:</div><div class="quote_post">Kieth Van Horn, Kendall Gill, Kenyon Martin, there was even rumors of Amare Stoudamire down in PHX, now Kurt Thomas all hated Marbury as a teammate. Marbury just isnt a guy that others trust in leading them, his style of game is hard to adjust to because alot of these guys arent use to playing alongside PG's who dominate the ball like Steph does...I think this is just another point in a long line that goes to the fact Steph is a great talent but should never be the best player on your team.</div> ^Again the voice of reason. How many times has Marbury had feuds with other teammates. I never even knew it was with Amare too! That's why I said so many times we need a leader. He's supposed to be the best player on the team and you would think that the fact he's playing where he always wanted to play, and also after playing on team USA, he would become a better leader. If Isiah really even wants to prove to himself that he's a decent GM, he would see the reality of Marbury and trade him for a real PG like say, Chris Paul? He needs another member on your team, who's a leader like Marion, or KG. He isn't the leader we need for him and he is a role player. Yes, a roleplayer. He steps up in the clutch eratically, he also is a bit selfish. I respect that he's a scorer and I understand it's a part of his game, but the Knicks need a PG. I see him more like an undersized 2 guard. Even Cousy said so in the paper!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I could careless about the fight, but this comment caught my attention. I thought Kurt Thomas was a shoe-in to be traded before the deadline. The Knicks don't stand a chance making the playoffs and KT is definitely not in their long term plans. A lot of teams are interested in him and he has great trade value. Isiah is tough to get a read on, he should enter a Texas Hold 'Em tournament.</div> I wouldn't say stand a chance. We are only 6 games behind for first place in the division, we are also 5 games behind for 8th place. We shouldn't rush to get him out of here, it will be better trading for him in the summer, anything earlier than that will probably end up detrimental.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn't say stand a chance. We are only 6 games behind for first place in the division, we are also 5 games behind for 8th place. We shouldn't rush to get him out of here, it will be better trading for him in the summer, anything earlier than that will probably end up detrimental.</div> Sorry, I forgot to leave out 'in hell.' Unless the Knicks pull off a strong trade or Kidd, Pierce, and Iverson get injured, they have no chance in hell to make the playoffs. They are not better than any of those teams, and six games out is a lot, when you consider the fact there only 29 games left in the season. The Knicks are an average home team, and they stink on the road. They also have one of the tougher schedules after the All-Star break, to go along with their terrible team chemistry. Maybe trading Thomas now isn't a good idea, but it sure would help them get more ping-pong balls in the lottery. Besides, they aren't a playoff team with him, he's not happy, and he's feuding with Starbury. Put the man out of his misery while he still has a few years left and trade him. Sweetney looks like the real deal, so they might as well get him more development time and put him in the starting lineup with Ariza.
Marbury has never been a great teammate. He is a me-first player, he isn't a winner, has never been on a winning team in the NBA. When he left the Wolves, what happened? They started winning, when he left the Nets, what happened? They started winning. When he left the Suns? What happened..they started winning. That has to say something about Marbury. He is supposed to be the floor general out there, he plays the most important position to an NBA team and he can't connect with his teammates, that won't get you anywhere in this league.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry, I forgot to leave out 'in hell.' Unless the Knicks pull off a strong trade or Kidd, Pierce, and Iverson get injured, they have no chance in hell to make the playoffs. They are not better than any of those teams, and six games out is a lot, when you consider the fact there only 29 games left in the season. The Knicks are an average home team, and they stink on the road. They also have one of the tougher schedules after the All-Star break, to go along with their terrible team chemistry. Maybe trading Thomas now isn't a good idea, but it sure would help them get more ping-pong balls in the lottery. Besides, they aren't a playoff team with him, he's not happy, and he's feuding with Starbury. Put the man out of his misery while he still has a few years left and trade him. Sweetney looks like the real deal, so they might as well get him more development time and put him in the starting lineup with Ariza.</div> No chance in hell? Since when are there fortune tellers here in JBB? Last season people were saying the same thing about the Miami Heat who had the exact same record as the Knicks at the time, and ended up becoming the 4th seed with home court advantage. At this time, the Nets already had the division pretty much locked whoch made it even worse for them. They still managed to do pretty well when people were saying "No chance in hell." While I am not saying the Knicks will make the playoffs or not, there is definitely not an impossible chance because you nor I know the future.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">No chance in hell? Since when are there fortune tellers here in JBB? Last season people were saying the same thing about the Miami Heat who had the exact same record as the Knicks at the time, and ended up becoming the 4th seed with home court advantage. At this time, the Nets already had the division pretty much locked whoch made it even worse for them. They still managed to do pretty well when people were saying "No chance in hell." While I am not saying the Knicks will make the playoffs or not, there is definitely not an impossible chance because you nor I know the future.</div> The difference between this Knicks team and that Heat team? Chemistry. How are the Knicks going to make a playoff run when their floor leader is an arrogant, cocky, me first player? The Heat played as a team last year..Lamar lead them, Wade right behind him...and then Caron. They had great role players..this Knicks team...is...well, led by a me first player who I don't think will get them into the playoffs.
You do not need to be a fortune teller to see the Knicks not making the playoffs this season. First off it's not fair to compare the Knicks to last year's Heat. The only thing they have in common is similar records at the All Star Break (I still need to look that up to make sure). I'm not sure what the relevance of the Nets comment was, so I have no response to it. Since you brought up last year, there have been a lot of changes in the East, in fact the East has become even more competitive than a season ago. Just take a look at the current teams in the playoff this year and you'll see five new teams are now contending, the 76ers, Cavs, Wizards, Bulls, and Magic. Not to mention the Knicks are already behind 4 teams who made it last year, the Celtics, the Pacers, the Bucks and the Nets. After the break the Knicks face one of the toughest schedules, how do you expect them to make up 6 games when they only have 29 games to do it in?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I could careless about the fight, but this comment caught my attention. I thought Kurt Thomas was a shoe-in to be traded before the deadline.</div> Not with his fat contract, he wasn't. As Henacy said, Marbury is just a bum of a teammate, all of his teammates hate him, they all have throughout the years. Marbury is not a winner, we all knew this back when he passed up the oppurtunity to play with Garnett out in Minnesota. I would pay $600 to watch Kurt Thomas brutally kick Marbury's 'butt'. This is more than a chemistry problem, this is a serious problem that needs to be followed up with discipline. Isiah better deliver some form of discipline, he better take some action, or he could be taking a taxi right out of here.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">You do not need to be a fortune teller to see the Knicks not making the playoffs this season. First off it's not fair to compare the Knicks to last year's Heat. The only thing they have in common is similar records at the All Star Break (I still need to look that up to make sure). I'm not sure what the relevance of the Nets comment was, so I have no response to it. Since you brought up last year, there have been a lot of changes in the East, in fact the East has become even more competitive than a season ago. Just take a look at the current teams in the playoff this year and you'll see five new teams are now contending, the 76ers, Cavs, Wizards, Bulls, and Magic. Not to mention the Knicks are already behind 4 teams who made it last year, the Celtics, the Pacers, the Bucks and the Nets. After the break the Knicks face one of the toughest schedules, how do you expect them to make up 6 games when they only have 29 games to do it in?</div> So it is impossible for the Knicks to get their acts together before the end of the season? The Nets had already had the division pretty much out of reach. As you know, the team with the best record in their respectable divisions get the top seeds. Actually the east is pretty much the same. You mentioned 5 new teams but having 5 new teams mean there were at least 3 lost right? Alright I'll break down there schedule for you (W-winnable P-probably not) DET-P PHI-W IND-W LA-W ORL-W GSW-W WAS-W SEA-P MIA-P ATL-W MIA-P SAS-P BOS-W SEA-P POR-W GSW-W LAL-W NJ-W MIL-W IND-W NJ-W CHI-W IND-W TOR-W CLE-P CHA-W ATL-W CHI-W WAS-W That isn't too hard a majority of the games are very winnable. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The difference between this Knicks team and that Heat team? Chemistry. How are the Knicks going to make a playoff run when their floor leader is an arrogant, cocky, me first player? The Heat played as a team last year..Lamar lead them, Wade right behind him...and then Caron. They had great role players..this Knicks team...is...well, led by a me first player who I don't think will get them into the playoffs.</div> Well when did they develop the chemistry? Later that season. Well Marbuyr is a little selfish but, he's a shoot first guard. So? A majority of point guards in the league are shoot first. With Marbury's abilites how should they be used? He is better off playing the wing than he is a point guard. The Heat played as a team last 29 games of the year. Caron was having a pretty bad season last year. He was having a sophomore slump. Even if that were the case, they just started doing that. The fact of the matter is there is still time. Again you don't know what is going to happen and you even said it yourself you think they wont get into the playoffs. Again, I am not saying they are, and I am not saying they aren't. I am just saying there is still time and they are capable of making a run especially in the Atlantic. You, or shapecity don't know how they will play, what kind of attitude change the players will have or anything. The door is open even if it is cracked. It's not closed yet.
I am a loyal Knicks fan and I must say I think their going to make the playoffs. But I wish they wouldnt. Barring another '99 Knicks like run this team wont do anything besides getting eliminated in the second round. Then again they said that about the '99 Knicks so I could be wrong. I think we should do what we should have done last season which is tank the season and get a good big man in the lottery to play alongside Sweetney. Because as it stands now, going to the lottery and making moves(trade Marbury and Kurt Thomas) in the offseason will definetely be more beneficial then just making the playoffs, getting eliminated and not getting a lottery pick. But this team has in recent years found ways to disappoint me so they probably will make the playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">I am a loyal Knicks fan and I must say I think their going to make the playoffs. But I wish they wouldnt. Barring another '99 Knicks like run this team wont do anything besides getting eliminated in the second round. Then again they said that about the '99 Knicks so I could be wrong. I think we should do what we should have done last season which is tank the season and get a good big man in the lottery to play alongside Sweetney. Because as it stands now, going to the lottery and making moves in the offseason will definetely be more beneficial then just making the playoffs, getting eliminated and not getting a lottery pick. But this team has in recent years found ways to disappoint me so they probably will make the playoffs.</div> I agree Tribute, but saying that it is impossible for them is what got me. Also you reminded me, we all forgot about Allan Houston too. If he comes nearly to what he was back in 03, we can <font size="2">easily</font> get up 5 or 6 games into the playoffs.
MrJ18, you gotta be kidding me. You expect the Knicks to have a 6 game win streak, followed by a 10 game win streak, and then a 4 game win streak !?! The longest winning streak they've had all season has been 3! Again for the Miami comparison, Caron Butler was injured for most of last season, but once he got healthy he was a main reason the Heat got on track. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You mentioned 5 new teams but having 5 new teams mean there were at least 3 lost right? </div> Yeah, and I also mentioned all of them are ahead of the Knicks in the current playoff race.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree Tribute, but saying that it is impossible for them is what got me. Also you reminded me, we all forgot about Allan Houston too. If he comes nearly to what he was back in 03, we can <font size="2">easily</font> get up 5 or 6 games into the playoffs.</div> Ah, Houston is another reason why I want us to tank the season. If we tank the season and have no shot at the playoffs he wont try to come back before he's ready. He'll be looking to come back next season and there will be more of a chance of his comeback being successful. So we'll get a high picks in the draft, Houston healthy and an entire off season to think about where to go with this team. Not making the playoffs is not only beneficial for the distant future but also beneficial for next season as well.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">@DET-P PHI-W IND-W LA-W @ORL-W GSW-W WAS-W SEA-P MIA-P @ATL-W @MIA-P SAS-P BOS-W @SEA-P @POR-W @GSW-W @LAL-W NJ-W @MIL-W IND-W @NJ-W CHI-W IND-W TOR-W @CLE-P @CHA-W ATL-W @CHI-W WAS-W</div>Okay, so you think the Knicks will go 22-7 for the rest of the season, and 9-2 on the road? Wishful thinking. A realistic prediction at best for the Knicks IMO is a 13-16 record. I've had this argument that the Knicks wouldn't make the playoffs with you before, and I see you haven't changed your opinion. I'd be willing to bet a load of cash against the Knicks making the playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">MrJ18, you gotta be kidding me. You expect the Knicks to have a 6 game win streak, followed by a 10 game win streak, and then a 4 game win streak !?!</div> I never said that. I said they were winnable. There's a difference. The reading the "tough" schedule that you were talking about I'm thinking just about every team is elite and we have just about no chance in wining any of them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again for the Miami comparison, Caron Butler was injured for most of last season, but once he got healthy he was a main reason the Heat got on track.</div> So his 29 games were were the main reason why they got on track? I didn't know that. If some Knick players get back on track, we can get there too. Houston was injured for most of this season to but, when he gets healthy we can get back on track. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, and I also mentioned all of them are ahead of the Knicks in the current playoff race.</div> Yeah, and you forgot to mention all of the teams ahead of the Heat too.
Hey I'm rooting for the New York Knicks but comm'on their not making the playoffs this season. Yeah it is possible but not realistic, the New York Knicks are a bad team, we have talented players but dang, defense is bad no one seems to like Stephon Marbury, I could go on and on, but I heavily doubt the playoffs are a realistic possibility. Think of it this way if the New York Knicks struggle to beat some of the NBA's worst teams I cannot foresee a 22-7 record. Though I hope your right, it would be quite a ride, but I just don't see it happening, what a dissapointing season to be a New York Knicks fan ..........................
