<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay, so you think the Knicks will go 22-7 for the rest of the season, and 9-2 on the road? Wishful thinking. A realistic prediction at best for the Knicks IMO is a 13-16 record. I've had this argument that the Knicks wouldn't make the playoffs with you before, and I see you haven't changed your opinion. I'd be willing to bet a load of cash against the Knicks making the playoffs.</div> I didn't say that at all. Please don't put words in my mouth. That doesn't seem as tough as many people said it would be. I said they were all winnable! Well, that's your opinion, quite frankly it doesn't matter and it doesn't dictate what will happen in the season. I would be willing to put a load of cash against the Rockets making it out of the first round of the playoffs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">You, or shapecity don't know how they will play, what kind of attitude change the players will have or anything. The door is open even if it is cracked. It's not closed yet.</div> I agree with you there, and it's a fair statement because we cannot predict an attitude change. But just look at the task ahead for a team struggling on and off the court. I have to base my opinion on teams who cannot win, usually don't have an attitude adjustment. The Knicks going 22-7 is farfetched, and they've done nothing all season to indicate they are capable of pulling that off. It would even be hard for some of the best teams in the league to manage a finish like that. They struggled through all of February with only 3 wins against the Jazz in OT, the Bobcats on a Tim Thomas prayer, and they blew out the Bucks playing without Redd. Not very impressive heading into the All-Star Break.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Penny:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey I'm rooting for the New York Knicks but comm'on their not making the playoffs this season. Yeah it is possible but not realistic, the New York Knicks are a bad team, we have talented players but dang, defense is bad no one seems to like Stephon Marbury, I could go on and on, but I heavily doubt the playoffs are a realistic possibility. Think of it this way if the New York Knicks struggle to beat some of the NBA's worst teams I cannot foresee a 22-7 record. Though I hope your right, it would be quite a ride, but I just don't see it happening, what a dissapointing season to be a New York Knicks fan ..........................</div> Penny, I didn't say a 22-7 record. I said 22 games are winnable, and 7 are probably not in our favor. Yes they have struggled this season, but being only 5 games out of playoff contention is very much possible. 5 games come one Penny. It has been dissapointing but still it is very possible. We can get our acts together and we can still very much make the playoffs. It is not unrealisitic.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't say that at all. Please don't put words in my mouth. That doesn't seem as tough as many people said it would be. I said they were all winnable! Well, that's your opinion, quite frankly it doesn't matter and it doesn't dictate what will happen in the season. I would be willing to put a load of cash against the Rockets making it out of the first round of the playoffs.</div> Unlike you, I'm a realistic fan. I don't think the Rockets would get out of the first round of the playoffs in the first place, so why would I want to risk losing money? As for "winnable" and a win, yes, there is a difference, but in that case, wouldn't every game be winnable? Hell, if the Knicks are gonna lose for sure against the Spurs and Seattle, why even bother playing? And I don't think that the Knicks have a chance of beating the Lakers, Bulls and Magic on the road, and beating Washington twice at home.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with you there, and it's a fair statement because we cannot predict an attitude change. But just look at the task ahead for a team struggling on and off the court. I have to base my opinion on teams who cannot win, usually don't have an attitude adjustment. The Knicks going 22-7 is farfetched, and they've done nothing all season to indicate they are capable of pulling that off. It would even be hard for some of the best teams in the league to manage a finish like that. They struggled through all of February with only 3 wins against the Jazz in OT, the Bobcats on a Tim Thomas prayer, and they blew out the Bucks playing without Redd. Not very impressive heading into the All-Star Break.</div> Again, I didn't say 22-7. We have 22 winnable games while 7 are probably not in our favor. They might change their attitude they might not. Who knows if Isiah really gets a hold of them and they start playing inspired basketball. The Jazz are a pretty good team, many people forget their struggles are due to playing without Andrei Kirilenko but we should have won it in a better fashion same thing as the Bobcats one, but believe it or not it shows we have been improving. Normally, the Knicks would have lost both games. They have been steadily improving even if it isn't by a lot. Last game against the 76ers they showed great heart in coming back into the game even though they lost it. They also normally would have kept the Bucks in the game until the final seconds but they closed it out well even thouggh they were playing without Redd. The fact of the matter is the Knicks still are only 5 games behind for a playoff spot, and they can still go in. There is a chance, no matter how small the margin is.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said that. I said they were winnable. There's a difference. The reading the "tough" schedule that you were talking about I'm thinking just about every team is elite and we have just about no chance in wining any of them. So his 29 games were were the main reason why they got on track? I didn't know that. If some Knick players get back on track, we can get there too. Houston was injured for most of this season to but, when he gets healthy we can get back on track. Yeah, and you forgot to mention all of the teams ahead of the Heat too.</div> Absolutely, Caron Butler averaged a little over 20PPG after the All-Star break, and helped the defense of the Heat tremendously. Getting Houston back would help the Knicks' cause, but it will be harder for him to get in game shape than it was for Butler, because Houston is a lot older. 22 games maybe winnable, but you can say the same thing for the other teams in the Atlantic. Their schedule is tough because they have 15 out of 29 games against teams with winning records, and 14 of their 29 games are on the road.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Absolutely, Caron Butler averaged a little over 20PPG after the All-Star break, and helped the defense of the Heat tremendously.</div> Really, that much. Can you show me a link? (Please don't feel as if I don't believe you, I just would like to see it for myself ) <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Getting Houston back would help the Knicks' cause, but it will be harder for him to get in game shape than it was for Butler, because Houston is a lot older.</div> True, but Allan Houston is on a rehab program and has been working hard. He has only played 20 games this season as oppose to Butler who played 68. He has more time to rest and really get healthy to make a good return. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">22 games maybe winnable, but you can say the same thing for the other teams in the Atlantic. Their schedule is tough because they have 15 out of 29 games against teams with winning records, and 14 of their 29 games are on the road.</div> Many of those teams we have beaten or put up excellent fights against. I don't think it will be too tough. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">Unlike you, I'm a realistic fan. I don't think the Rockets would get out of the first round of the playoffs in the first place, so why would I want to risk losing money?</div> I never said you were putting money on the Rockets, I never said I was putting money on the Knicks? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for "winnable" and a win, yes, there is a difference, but in that case, wouldn't every game be winnable? Hell, if the Knicks are gonna lose for sure against the Spurs and Seattle, why even bother playing? And I don't think that the Knicks have a chance of beating the Lakers, Bulls and Magic on the road, and beating Washington twice at home.</div> Wow. Obviously there are more games more winnable than others. I never said they would lose for sure, I said probably not, again putting words in my mouth. Again, your opinion has nothing to do with the outcomes of games. The Knicks beat Orlando without Crawford, and when they were rolling with Mobley. They almost beat the Wizards but the officials at the end..., and Chicago was a close wire/wire win for them. Those games are very winnable. Again, your opinion is invalid, because it is an opinion.
Here's the link to the Caron stats you wanted Link Just scroll down to February and it has his averages.
So your opinion is more valid than mine? Where does that reasoning come from? And in this case, it seems like only your opinion is different from everyone else's. Ask everyone else on JBB, and I can guarantee that not another single soul would say the Knicks would make the playoffs. Sure, it's still mathematically possible, but mathematically, the Bobcats can make the playoffs too. Would it happen though?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's the link to the Caron stats you wanted Link Just scroll down to February and it has his averages.</div> Shapecity, those numbers you gve me were when he was a rookie. In his sophomore year, when the Heat made that run after the break, he averaged 10.8ppg, while shooting 39.9% from the field.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's the link to the Caron stats you wanted Link Just scroll down to February and it has his averages.</div> Shapecity, those numbers you gve me were when he was a rookie. In his sophomore year, when the Heat made that run after the break, he averaged 10.8ppg, while shooting 39.9% from the field. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">So your opinion is more valid than mine? Where does that reasoning come from? And in this case, it seems like only your opinion is different from everyone else's. Ask everyone else on JBB, and I can guarantee that not another single soul would say the Knicks would make the playoffs. Sure, it's still mathematically possible, but mathematically, the Bobcats can make the playoffs too. Would it happen though?</div> I never said that. I said your opinion will not matter because it will not affect the Knicks play. It is a fact those games have a good chance at being won. I said there was a chance. If you read my posts, you would have noticed I said, we might make the playoffs or we might not. Not a single soul thinks the Knicks will make the playoffs? Tribute to H2O just said that they will. So much for your guarantee. The Bobcats can still make the playoffs but they probably wont. Maybe if they were only 5 games back from the playoffs, I would think differently.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Shapecity, those numbers you gve me were when he was a rookie. In his sophomore year, when the Heat made that run after the break, he averaged 10.8ppg, while shooting 39.9% from the field. I never said that. I said your opinion will not matter because it will not affect the Knicks play. It is a fact those games have a good chance at being won. I said there was a chance. If you read my posts, you would have noticed I said, we might make the playoffs or we might not. Not a single soul thinks the Knicks will make the playoffs? Tribute to H2O just said that they will. So much for your guarantee. The Bobcats can still make the playoffs but they probably wont. Maybe if they were only 5 games back from the playoffs, I would think differently.</div> I just clicked on the 2003 link and got those numbers. How did you come up with 10.8? Anyways the point for bringing the Heat in to the argument was comparing the Knicks at the break versus last year's Heat at the break. Last year the East was not as competitive, so I don't think the Knicks can duplicate the Heat's run.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I just clicked on the 2003 link and got those numbers. How did you come up with 10.8?</div> The 2004 numbers is what we needed. I didn't use those numbers I used the 2004 numbers when he was a sohpomore. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyways the point for bringing the Heat in to the argument was comparing the Knicks at the break versus last year's Heat at the break. Last year the East was not as competitive, so I don't think the Knicks can duplicate the Heat's run.</div> I don't know about that. I think it is just as bad as last year. Even if it wasn't I don't think it is competitive enough to make a huge difference. And the Heat ended up getting #4 we're trying to get at least #8.
Shapecity, the Heat made their run in the 2003-2004 season, and those stats are from February 2003, when he was a rookie and the Heat were stinking it up. mrj18, I seriously don't see a point in arguing with you anymore since you never get what I'm trying to say anyways. And argument is fruitless if you fail to convince your opponent of your view. You haven't convinced me and neither have I convinced you, and I'm not going to anyways because I've got better things to do and you're just too damn stubborn. When the season ends, we will see who was right and who wasn't, but right now, no compromise will be reached. One last question though, who do you think has a better chance of making the playoffs then? Raptors or Knicks? They both have the same record. Something deep down tells me you will go with the Knicks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">mrj18, I seriously don't see a point in arguing with you anymore since you never get what I'm trying to say anyways. And argument is fruitless if you fail to convince your opponent of your view. You haven't convinced me and neither have I convinced you, and I'm not going to anyways because I've got better things to do and you're just too damn stubborn. When the season ends, we will see who was right and who wasn't, but right now, no compromise will be reached. One last question though, who do you think has a better chance of making the playoffs then? Raptors or Knicks? They both have the same record. Something deep down tells me you will go with the Knicks.</div> You're arguments don't convince me. You might say I'm stubborn but, "in my opinion" just doesn't do a good job of convincing me. 5 games back to me is very possible but obviously not you, anyways, I think the Knicks have a better chance in making the playoffs. Sure they have problems with Kurt and Marbury but accordimg to them it's all good now. The NY media is known to blow up things. Notice it says after the Knicks beat the Cavaliers which was a while ago. The Raptors have so much to deal with bigger than this. They have Alston and his problems, Marshall having problems, and Vince Carter's name still coming up. They have a chance to just like the Knicks.
Well yeah but when your losing so bad you tend to get frustrated and the New York media dones't help the situation when your losing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Penny:</div><div class="quote_post">Well yeah but when your losing so bad you tend to get frustrated and the New York media dones't help the situation when your losing.</div> I know, but is the Knicks trying to prove them wrong out of the question? They have improved right? 5 games isn't impossible.
