<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Some players are retired based on impact on the franchise though, which would be why Vince could be retired because he was the biggest impact player on the franchise, and out first superstar player.</div>^Like who? Players who are retired are usually those that were loyal at least. This guy demanded a trade out of Toronto.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">^Like who? Players who are retired are usually those that were loyal at least. This guy demanded a trade out of Toronto.</div> Read what I said above og's post, those are my personal thoughts. Pretty much he couldn't take what was going on with franchise...breaking commitments, 3 coaches in 3 years, a downfall from the teams sucess in 2001 to 2004, and the direction the team was heading (Championship direction to Rebuilding). Of course, his injuries and his previous play, played a factor in the teams franchise direction. However, last year Vince had a pretty solid year after the new years, the management didn't do the best to help the team become a eastern conference contender. Having Michael Curry, Milt Palacio and Lonny Baxter as your bench with Bosh forced to play Center, isn't what I call a team EC playoff bound. After the firing of Grunwald...MLSE chose to hit the rebuilding road. I can see the frusteration from Vince. I agree that it wasn't great of him to "give up" on the team, but one thing adds to another.
I don't buy it when ppl say that if it weren't for Vince, we wouldn't even have a team today. Toronto has a large market for basketball, I think we could've done just fine without him. And besides, if we didn't have Vince then we still would've had a superstar in T-Mac who could've equalled the impact Carter made on the franchise. The whole VC having his jersey retired is a debatable issue, but I personally don't think it should be retired. I'm under the impression that a player who has his number retired should be someone who's respected and beloved by the city..... it doesn't look like Carter fits that description. Sure he still has a small fanbase here, but the vast majority hate him now and a lot never respected him even when he was Raptor. I mean, how can we retire his number when we plan on booing him upon his return? And can you even imagine how the whole retiring ceremony would turn out to be? I don't think it'll be pretty..... I understand his impact on the franchise and even on the city of Toronto, but I think there's just too much controversy surrounding him and the manner in which he left the team. It should almost be a unanimous "yes" amongst a team's fanbase in regards to whether a player should have his number retired. Rap fans seem to be split on this issue so I don't think it would be the right choice to hang his jersey from the ceiling (especially when many Rap fans would be tempted burn it or throw stuff at it when they see it hanging there).
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Read what I said above og's post, those are my personal thoughts. Pretty much he couldn't take what was going on with franchise...breaking commitments, 3 coaches in 3 years, a downfall from the teams sucess in 2001 to 2004, and the direction the team was heading (Championship direction to Rebuilding). Of course, his injuries and his previous play, played a factor in the teams franchise direction. However, last year Vince had a pretty solid year after the new years, the management didn't do the best to help the team become a eastern conference contender. Having Michael Curry, Milt Palacio and Lonny Baxter as your bench with Bosh forced to play Center, isn't what I call a team EC playoff bound. After the firing of Grunwald...MLSE chose to hit the rebuilding road. I can see the frusteration from Vince. I agree that it wasn't great of him to "give up" on the team, but one thing adds to another.</div>I know what you are saying but when people vote to retire a players jersey, they won't look at those points you just stated. The thing that will burn in their minds is the way he left and the things he said/did afterwards. I'm sure they won't say that Vince Carter made the Raptors what they are today. They will say that this guy left us when the going got tough and he basically dogged it while he was here anyways.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">^Like who? Players who are retired are usually those that were loyal at least. This guy demanded a trade out of Toronto.</div> Tom Chambers is one I can think of on the Suns, their's many more really, their's a lot of players who's numbers were retired and their on court production wasn't really anything too special, or they only played a few years on the team that retired them. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand his impact on the franchise and even on the city of Toronto, but I think there's just too much controversy surrounding him and the manner in which he left the team. It should almost be a unanimous "yes" amongst a team's fanbase in regards to whether a player should have his number retired. Rap fans seem to be split on this issue so I don't think it would be the right choice to hang his jersey from the ceiling (especially when many Rap fans would be tempted burn it or throw stuff at it when they see it hanging there).</div> I agree with this...
Is it just me or is Vince cooling off a bit with the Nets? I even read an article somewhere that I found off Google that said Vince was starting to show signs of laziness again with New Jersey. His field goal percentage has been absolutely horrible lately since the All-Star Break, and that game the Raps played against the Nets last month looked like the Vince of old - smiling and all happy even though his new team just lost, faking injuries, etc.. Speaking of which, here's a quote from Vince's website: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I want to be remembered as a guy who loved to play the game of basketball and cared about other people. I feel to gain confidence in your game you must continue to work on ALL aspects of the game. When you feel that you've raised your game to another level, put your game to the test. Play your friends before you play some of your better competition.</div> Dude, if you cared about other people you wouldn't have hurt the Raps team like that. I think he's a good player and all, but I dislike him as a person.
^His FG% dropped for a while, but he was going to the line 8 times a game, also the last 2 games he's had 33-7-3, and 30-8-8, averaged 8 FT attempts, 3 steals, and 60% FG. He was said to have injured his shooting hand or wrist before either the Heat or Hornets game, and that was supposed to be why he shot bad. Vince as a person is actually supposed to be a good guy, but he's also a guy that always wants to please everyyone, his basketball work ethic might not be the best, but he's supposed to be a really good person. I think he's reffering more to off the court things in that statement than to basketball, he means caring about the community and putting work into it, I really don't think that relates to the basketball aspect.
^I gotta agree with that. I do think Vince has a good heart. He has put a lot into the communities in Toronto and still has love for this city. In terms of morality and character I do think that he is severely lacking. The truth is that he lied bald faced to the Raptor fans during his charity game about him wanting to stay in Toronto while all the while he wanted to leave. He admitted that he didn't try in Toronto and it was apparent after he left when he started to average 25 ppg for the Nets. Sure he has a good heart. In terms of character and being a man he needs to step that part of his game up.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/columnist.jsp?...221_111729_5272 Hmm. That article was kinda nice. Made me not hate him as much as I do now. OFFTOPIC: This is just hilarious.
memories of vince I know everyone's going to hate me for sticking VC back into the Raptors forum when he's clearly moved on. But this does relate to Toronto because it's a clip of his days here: http://home.uos.ac.kr/~injuni/vcvid_03.wmv That's just incredibly sad. Makes me miss him a lot.
What hurts about Carter Guys, I don't know about you but after watching that Celtics game, I'm pissed off. Honestly, this is the same guy that faked injuries in Toronto and did not give it his all when he was here. I say fire Peddie for making boneheaded decisions. I honestly hope that Miami pounds the crap out of New Jersey. All this talk about Vince not being a player that is as good as before, when every fan in Toronto knew this to not be true. Whatever, now the Nets are in the playoffs. He really duped the Toronto fans. We have a right to boo.
The game was like, almost a week ago, not only did you have the right to boo, we booed a little too much IMO. My advice to many fans like you...yes, I know you're pissed, but what can you really do? (Bill Simmons had an idea that you could sue Vince for "breach of contract" but good luck with that) Vince acted unprofessional in his last days in Toronto, he deserves to get booed, yes, but I think of Vince Carter and remember the postives times when he was with our team. Though he left on a REALLY bad note, I will still never forget that 2001 playoff year and all the memories of it. For me, the positives outweigh the negatives. Vince brought a love for basketball to Canada that Damon Stoudamire or Marcus Camby never provided.
No, you're right. It just seems as if Toronto will not have anything that will be like that for a while. It's funny cuz in hind-sight I realize how great a GM Glen Grunwald had been. He realized the trade with Antawn Jamison, he traded Davis and JYD for Rose and Marshall and he gave Toronto the possibility of getting to the Eastern Conference final in 2001. I'm pretty upset with the whole Nets thing. They've been really lucky getting Carter for squat. Babcock was really stupid for not making a little bit better of a move when he could. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">The game was like, almost a week ago, not only did you have the right to boo, we booed a little too much IMO. My advice to many fans like you...yes, I know you're pissed, but what can you really do? (Bill Simmons had an idea that you could sue Vince for "breach of contract" but good luck with that) Vince acted unprofessional in his last days in Toronto, he deserves to get booed, yes, but I think of Vince Carter and remember the postives times when he was with our team. Though he left on a REALLY bad note, I will still never forget that 2001 playoff year and all the memories of it. For me, the positives outweigh the negatives. Vince brought a love for basketball to Canada that Damon Stoudamire or Marcus Camby never provided.</div>
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">The game was like, almost a week ago, not only did you have the right to boo, we booed a little too much IMO. My advice to many fans like you...yes, I know you're pissed, but what can you really do? (Bill Simmons had an idea that you could sue Vince for "breach of contract" but good luck with that) Vince acted unprofessional in his last days in Toronto, he deserves to get booed, yes, but I think of Vince Carter and remember the postives times when he was with our team. Though he left on a REALLY bad note, I will still never forget that 2001 playoff year and all the memories of it. For me, the positives outweigh the negatives. Vince brought a love for basketball to Canada that Damon Stoudamire or Marcus Camby never provided.</div> I totally agree he deserved to be booed by u guys althogh he is my fav. player. Just move on its in the past he was frustrated with the team.
So in does frustration make you allowed to ignore everything in the contract of 10 million dollars. Maybe if he played his 100% he wouldn't have been so frustrated. Le'ts put this into real life terms, if you are frsutrated with yoru job can you just quit working and not put any effort into it. No, and if you do you go without pay... And giving other people our plays??? C'mon now, Vince has lost every bit of respect I have for him. What a bum, I hate his guts and I dont' see how any Toronto fan can like him. He lead us to the Eastern Semis one year and gave us some highlights, but that certainly does not outweigh his huge negatives. No other player in the league acted like he did in his last days of Toronto. It's like (I think) Roberto Alomar. The one who spat on the umpire. He was a great player, but will always be remembered as the one who spat on the umpire. It scarred him. And Vince should be scarred in T.dot fans minds aswell.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">So in does frustration make you allowed to ignore everything in the contract of 10 million dollars. Maybe if he played his 100% he wouldn't have been so frustrated. Le'ts put this into real life terms, if you are frsutrated with yoru job can you just quit working and not put any effort into it. No, and if you do you go without pay... And giving other people are plays??? C'mon now, Vince has lost every bit of respect I have for him. What a bum, I hate his guts and I dont' see how any Toronto fan can like him. He lead us to the Eastern Semis one year and gave us some highlights, but that certainly does not outweigh his huge negatives. No other player in the league acted like he did in his last days of Toronto. It's like (I think) Roberto Alomar. The one who spat on the umpire. He was a great player, but will always be remembered as the one who spat on the umpire. It scarred him. And Vince should be scarred in T.dot fans minds aswell.</div> I agree lol....carter telling other teams the raptors plays....carter is the most valuable player.... for the team he plays against.
I wish Carter good luck in the playofffs..... I still don't like him at all, and there's nothing I hate more in basketball is when people don't try or give their effort into playing. But Vince isn't really a bad person, and I honestly think he's a nice guy and wishing bad things on him doesn't really make us the good guys either now does it?
Then don't wish him luck then. Wish New Jersey luck. Yes, he isn't a bad person, but look what he did with us? Honestly, had Carter tried with half the effort that he had put into New Jersey, Toronto would have been probably in the 5th spot right now with no trade being made, and why do we have to be the good guys? Good guys finish last. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting asdf:</div><div class="quote_post">I wish Carter good luck in the playofffs..... I still don't like him at all, and there's nothing I hate more in basketball is when people don't try or give their effort into playing. But Vince isn't really a bad person, and I honestly think he's a nice guy and wishing bad things on him doesn't really make us the good guys either now does it?</div>
