Just read that the voters are 227 Pro Ballers. They're probably players on teams who failed to get to the playoffs or VC haters. Well Honestly...I don't see how these players believe he is overrated, let alone the most overrated player in the NBA. Is it because he's playing so good in NJ and led them to a playoff spot? Is it because he was dropping 30+ on the regular? Is it because he averaged nearly 28 PPG as a Net? All of this contributes to journalists and people writing numerous positive articles on him and him getting publicity similar to his early years. So because of this, he's overrated? If those are their reasons, then they shouldn't even be taking these polls. And yeah, this should be in the NJ or NBA Forum.
i think it's hilarious that lewis is "underrated". seems to me like he's been an underacheiver for a long time till this year, so i don't know how all of a sudden he's underrated
lol that sucks for vince. i think it's cuz ppl saw his dunk contest in oakland and then see him get injured that he's overrated
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Just read that the voters are 227 Pro Ballers. They're probably players on teams who failed to get to the playoffs or VC haters. Well Honestly...I don't see how these players believe he is overrated, let alone the most overrated player in the NBA. Is it because he's playing so good in NJ and led them to a playoff spot? Is it because he was dropping 30+ on the regular? Is it because he averaged nearly 28 PPG as a Net? All of this contributes to journalists and people writing numerous positive articles on him and him getting publicity similar to his early years. So because of this, he's overrated? If those are their reasons, then they shouldn't even be taking these polls. And yeah, this should be in the NJ or NBA Forum.</div> He may not be overrated, but he's definitely not a winner. Wasn't one when he was in T-dot and he still isn't - even with Kidd and Jefferson on his side. If he is as good as advertised, then I don't see why NJ couldn't win a game - not a single game - against the Heat in the first round. Sure they got the most dominant centre in the game in Shaquille O'Neal, and their franchise player in Dwyane Wade, but we pulled out a victory against them. Granted, it wasn't in a playoff game, but we don't have a Kidd, or a Jefferson, or a Carter. Until Carter shows that he can win, I'm going to call him a loser and a whiner. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting PUREPOINT:</div><div class="quote_post">yup... he couldnt' have gotten better with that pile of garbage they had in Toronto. Now that he's around great players like Kidd and Jefferson.... we've seen what he's capable of puttin up. His situation reminds of when Barkley was ran out of Philly and the next year he won the MVP with the Suns. Wouldn't be surprised if he continues to play as he did this year, if not better.</div> Pile of garbage? If you call what we had in Toronto a pile of garbage, what makes you think that your roster is any better? Let's see,, you got a overweight and short "center" in Danny Fortson, you got a bust in Nick Collison, you got a 'future PG' in Luke Ridnour wanting to opt out of last year of his contract to 'test FA', you got Ray Allen,, oh wait you wouldn't next season, he's leaving for more doe, because someone named Wally Walker is too cheap to pay for his service, and Nate McMillan is leaving because of the same reason. Oh,,, and from what I hear, 9 players are free agents on your team. I feel bad for Rashard Lewis.
How can u say hes overrated when hes been razed almost the entire season for what he did. IT was wrong but u guys gotta let it go, and yes he was a winner in toronto because he was the reason that that franchise was or is on the map. He made that team and you kant deny it, and what hes done in NJ has been wonderful, people said that the cwebb deal was the biggest one, but in reality the VC trade basically turned the Nets around after RJ got injured. Im not saying to give him all the credit in the world but the man is certainly not overrated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">He may not be overrated, but he's definitely not a winner. Wasn't one when he was in T-dot and he still isn't - even with Kidd and Jefferson on his side. If he is as good as advertised, then I don't see why NJ couldn't win a game - not a single game - against the Heat in the first round. Sure they got the most dominant centre in the game in Shaquille O'Neal, and their franchise player in Dwyane Wade, but we pulled out a victory against them. Granted, it wasn't in a playoff game, but we don't have a Kidd, or a Jefferson, or a Carter. Until Carter shows that he can win, I'm going to call him a loser and a whiner. </div> Yes we pulled out a win against them, but that's also when we had VC on the team (even though he played poor) and when the Heat were just getting use to their offense with Shaq. The Heat are the best team in the East. The Nets had no big man to guard Shaq, and nobody to guard Wade, except for an RJ who hadn't played in 4 months. Vince Carter (and Kidd), carried that team into the playoffs. That alone shows how good of a player he is. Without him, that team would of been done in December. Even if you think he's a loser or whiner, that is irrelevant when you're considering if he's overrated or not. You're talking about VC the person and player, I'm talking about VC the player.
When were the votes done? If you have McGrady being in there at the end of the season, that's kinda dumb. Also Yao was overatted, but really isn't anymore, I'd say these votes were likely done early in the season and before the All-Star break. If players at the end of the year are calling Vince overatted after he spanked their teams while having a fairly weak supprting cast [it was mainly a 2 man team + Kristic], and looked unstopabble through the second half of the year, they've got some memory problems. Kirilenko I can agree with a bit, but he's not really overatted now, just that last year some people were calling him a Top 10-15 player which he really has not shown he is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He may not be overrated, but he's definitely not a winner. Wasn't one when he was in T-dot and he still isn't - even with Kidd and Jefferson on his side. If he is as good as advertised, then I don't see why NJ couldn't win a game - not a single game - against the Heat in the first round. Sure they got the most dominant centre in the game in Shaquille O'Neal, and their franchise player in Dwyane Wade, but we pulled out a victory against them. Granted, it wasn't in a playoff game, but we don't have a Kidd, or a Jefferson, or a Carter. Until Carter shows that he can win, I'm going to call him a loser and a whiner. </div> So the whole Wizards team aren't winners either because they lost to Miami 4-0, and Shaq also missed 2 games. Maybe Miami is just that good
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">So the whole Wizards team aren't winners either because they lost to Miami 4-0, and Shaq also missed 2 games. Maybe Miami is just that good </div> Yes, Wizards are losers too. So are the Raptors, so is T-Mac, so is Yao Ming, so is LeBron James, so is Dirk Nowitzki, so is Chris Bosh,,etc etc... I don't remember who said it, but someone famous (I'm sure it wasn't Barkley) said every player who hasn't one a championship is a loser. It's just that most of the players who haven't one a championship don't have tags labelling them as whiners as well. Banks, how did you come up with the conclusion that I was calling Vince the person a whiner / loser? I wasn't referring that to him as a person. He was an outstanding individual off the court, helping those in need with his charity and what not. Rather, I was talking about him as a player on the court. We'll see how long it will be until Vince demands another trade saying "The Nets have no future, and it's time for me to take care of myself." But whatever, to each man his own. There will always be guys like you and many others who like Vince, and there will always be guys like me and many others who aren't that fond of Vince. It's a love it or hate it situation.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">The Nets had no big man to guard Shaq</div> Shaq didn't play in the Miami vs. New Jersey series it was obviously Eric Dampier. Shaq had 3 blocks over four games... Shaq had the same offensive presence as Nenad Krystic who both scored 18.25 ppg during the series. If Shaq was healthy, Nenad wouldn't have scored more than 12 ppg on the heat and Shaq would have had 28 ppg. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">and nobody to guard Wade, except for an RJ who hadn't played in 4 months. Vince Carter (and Kidd), carried that team into the playoffs. That alone shows how good of a player he is. Without him, that team would of been done in December.</div> Well the Nets had 3 players who could guard wade, Kidd, Vince, and RJ. Kidd is 6'4 but is known to be a tough defender, RJ showed that he did a decent job covering Wade. Vince is shorter than RJ and an inch taller than Wade but never seemed to cover Wade, b/c he doesn't put much effort into defense. [quote name='Banks'] Even if you think he's a loser or whiner, that is irrelevant when you're considering if he's overrated or not. You're talking about VC the person and player, I'm talking about VC the player. If he pouts and whines, which doesn't motivate players on the court, then it affects VC the player and how his team does on the court.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, Wizards are losers too. So are the Raptors, so is T-Mac, so is Yao Ming, so is LeBron James, so is Dirk Nowitzki, so is Chris Bosh,,etc etc... I don't remember who said it, but someone famous (I'm sure it wasn't Barkley) said every player who hasn't one a championship is a loser. It's just that most of the players who haven't one a championship don't have tags labelling them as whiners as well. </div> So then their's no significance to him being called a loser then because almost everyone in the NBA right now is a loser. Even Wade, Amare, Nash etc are all losers because they haven't achieved the ultimate goal, so what's the big deal in that?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">So then their's no significance to him being called a loser then because almost everyone in the NBA right now is a loser. Even Wade, Amare, Nash etc are all losers because they haven't achieved the ultimate goal, so what's the big deal in that?</div> Like I said, they don't have a tag following them around labelling them as whiners. They play hard regardless of situation they are in, unlike someone. But whatever, you can praise Vince all you want, and I'm still going to diss him all I want.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq didn't play in the Miami vs. New Jersey series it was obviously Eric Dampier. Shaq had 3 blocks over four games... Shaq had the same offensive presence as Nenad Krystic who both scored 18.25 ppg during the series. If Shaq was healthy, Nenad wouldn't have scored more than 12 ppg on the heat and Shaq would have had 28 ppg.</div> ..... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well the Nets had 3 players who could guard wade, Kidd, Vince, and RJ. Kidd is 6'4 but is known to be a tough defender, RJ showed that he did a decent job covering Wade. Vince is shorter than RJ and an inch taller than Wade but never seemed to cover Wade, b/c he doesn't put much effort into defense.</div> Are you on crack? Vince cannot guard Wade even if he put his mind to it. How does this even reflect what I'm trying to say? I was talking about the outcome of the Raptors and Nets performances against the Heat and you start talking to me about players that could guard Wade. It's not like the outcome of the games in round 1 would of changed if VC or Wade was on Wade. Why are even we talking about Wade? You're changing this whole discussion around. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If he pouts and whines, which doesn't motivate players on the court, then it affects VC the player and how his team does on the court.</div> Honestly, what does that have to do with VC being overrated? He does not pout or whine. He told the Raptors he wanted to be traded and gave his reasons. All of a sudden he pouts and whines? It's not like he's going out into the media everyday and telling them he wants out and starts crying about it. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKannaday:</div><div class="quote_post">Banks, how did you come up with the conclusion that I was calling Vince the person a whiner / loser? I wasn't referring that to him as a person. He was an outstanding individual off the court, helping those in need with his charity and what not. Rather, I was talking about him as a player on the court. We'll see how long it will be until Vince demands another trade saying "The Nets have no future, and it's time for me to take care of myself." </div> How exactly is he a whiner then? By whining to the officials about non-calls? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"><font size="1">Until Carter shows that he can win, I'm going to call him a loser and a whiner. </font> </div> ...So until he shows he can win, you'll call him a whiner still? That basically says that you call him a whiner because he can't win, which doesn't really make sense...
I'm calling him a whiner because of his demeanor leading up to his trade. Last time I checked, pouting and sulking don't exactly help him or the team and that's all that he was doing, so tell me what else I can call him? Blah.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Are you on crack? </div> No <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince cannot guard Wade even if he put his mind to it. </div> Which is one of the several reasons why Vince Carter is overrated, because he only plays half of the game. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">How does this even reflect what I'm trying to say? I was talking about the outcome of the Raptors and Nets performances against the Heat and you start talking to me about players that could guard Wade. It's not like the outcome of the games in round 1 would of changed if VC or Wade was on Wade. Why are even we talking about Wade? You're changing this whole discussion around.</div> Go read your previous post, you said that NJ had no one to cover Wade, I felt that you were wrong because NJ had: 1. Kidd who is a tough defender 2. Richard Jefferson who did an ok job on Wade considering Jefferson is 6'7 3. Carter: can't play defense or doesn't care about it <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly, what does that have to do with VC being overrated? He does not pout or whine. He told the Raptors he wanted to be traded and gave his reasons. All of a sudden he pouts and whines? </div> lol, have you been watching the Raptors for the past 3 years? ... Vince used to always pout and whine when he didn't get a referee call. The more he whinced, the less calls he got, it got pretty pathetic. Carter would make a lame attempt at a lay-up get touched and he would expect a foul... Its a factor that Wince is overrated, because as he plays like a pansy it hurts the team and teammates won't be motivated by some guy who constantly complains and whines about every call.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Which is one of the several reasons why Vince Carter is overrated, because he only plays half of the game.</div> It's not even that, only a handful of players can guard Wade. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Go read your previous post, you said that NJ had no one to cover Wade, I felt that you were wrong because NJ had: 1. Kidd who is a tough defender 2. Richard Jefferson who did an ok job on Wade considering Jefferson is 6'7 3. Carter: can't play defense or doesn't care about it</div> 1. Kidd is nowhere close to quick enough to guard Wade. Even if he has all the defensive skills, you can't make up for quickness. 2. What the hell does height have to do with anything? Ok he's about 2 inches taller than Wade, it doesn't make that much of a difference because of Wade's athelticsm. 3. If he didn't care about defense...Lawrence Frank wouldn't play him. If he didn't care about defense, Jason Kidd would not allow him to play. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">lol, have you been watching the Raptors for the past 3 years? </div> Tell me whats funny? So how exactly has Vince been whing. I want you to tell me. Aside from him asking for management to trade him, give me an incident where Vince pouted and whined. ... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Vince used to always pout and whine when he didn't get a referee call. The more he whinced, the less calls he got, it got pretty pathetic. Carter would make a lame attempt at a lay-up get touched and he would expect a foul...</div> Um, that's what virtually every player does. They question the ref and hassle them about it. They get the refs attention and/or they give them their 2 cents because they aren't getting calls which they don't get. LeBron does that. Kobe does that. Amare does that. Shaq does that. Every star and scorer does that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Its a factor that Wince is overrated, because as he plays like a pansy it hurts the team and teammates won't be motivated by some guy who constantly complains and whines about every call.</div> I'm not even going to respond to this because your explanation and support for everything is the same
Figured somebody neede to help u Banks. Skip and VinK are just both Vince haters and they hate him because he is good and he picked the Nets up by himself halfway through the season and led them to the playoffs, and their team (which i still like) was done by Xmas. First of all, to say that J-Kidd is good, tough defender is just an absolute piece of crap. I have alot of respect for kidd and he does alot of good things, but now that he's older, hes a defensive liability at the PG. He's just not quick enough, and truthfully, nobody is quick enough to guard Wade. When hes on his gAME theres no stopping him, and mark my words, he WILL be better then Lebron if he already isnt. As for the Nets not taking a game off the Heat, there are few teams who can. Detroit will take only two, SA 2 or 3 and prolly a couple teams in the West could take off 1, but the Heat are just too good. Ill admit that Vince isnt the best on D, but hes athletic and an amazing playmaker and scorer. LBJ sucks at D too (he got burned BAD by Prince) and a lot of great players like tmac and dirk suck on D too but you never hear them gettin criticized. Im a TO fan, but personally i think 90% of raptors fans are idiots who no nothing about bball and just boo because they have nothing better to do. I mean what fans in history of the NBA have held grudges this long (still Damon, TMAC and Vince for a long time to come im sure). I seriously have never heard of more vicious NBA fans thanTO fans.Even if Vince and the Nets make it far into the playoffs or even win it in the next couple years (they are gonna have a reallly good team next year) you all will still call vince a loser or a whiner. By the way VinK, what successful NBA player doesnt whine or complain to the refs. And if you wana complain about him leaving TO on those terms, then you cant like Kobe for forcing shaq out, LBJ for wantin to go to lLA or NYC and not goin in the dunk contest because it didnt offer enough money, or pretty much most superstars who make demands on their teams. The only difference is, their teams listened to those players. Raptors didnt.
Virve, don't make general statements about "90% of Raptors fans being idiots" I would expect most people would be respectful enough not to do so in a Raptor forum. Its a pretty childish thing to do imo, by merely calling the people who you disagree with idiots... paragraphs are easier to read for next time. Banks, I gave my you my arguement, however it doesn't seem this debate is really going anywhere. So I see no point in continually disagreeing over the same topics. The general opinion by pro basketball players is that Vince Carter is overrated.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting LamarOdom75:</div><div class="quote_post">Hahahaa, I think Toronto put a curse on Carter.</div> no i think its more like Carter put a curse on Toronto <div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Im a TO fan, but personally i think 90% of raptors fans are idiots who no nothing about bball and just boo because they have nothing better to do. I mean what fans in history of the NBA have held grudges this long (still Damon, TMAC and Vince for a long time to come im sure). I seriously have never heard of more vicious NBA fans thanTO fans.</div> ok for Damon we shouldnt boo, but Vince and Tmac? T-mac didnt give us a chance to resign him, and Vince demanded a trade so they didnt exactly leave on great terms and what fans in history have had 3 superstars leave them in 10 years? And alot of Rap fans know alot more than you
