<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Banks, you don't know what you're talking about, same to you civic. We realize we're screwed cap-wise, we see that. We have more money on the cap in total years with 27 from Malik and about 5 or so (?) from Maurice. But look, with that we take on 2 first rounders, and there are clauses in the Marbury trade and it's possible that we get Phoenix's 1st. So if we have that we have around 4 first rounders, talk about good ammo. With that we have Penny and TT expiring next year, that's serious ammo at the deadline next year as well. Do the thinking and watch more Knicks games (*sigh*. Please leave, civic. You don't know at all) and you'll see how much potential this trade has.</div> I know what's going on. My main concern is the frontline of the Knicks, even though I don't care. Sweetney will be playing behind Mo, Rose and Kurt. If not, you'll be paying one of them big bucks to sit on the bench...and eventually they'll want out. The picks could do some good, but they're low picks. Isiah did good in his first draft with his low pick, getting Ariza, so I can see some potential there. This whole thing is just messed up with the salaries. I see that it's NY, but its just too messed up...well over 100+ million dollar in payroll for 15 players or so. If they do get 4 picks...they won't use all four, too much of a risk giving out 4, three year contracts to uncertain players. Could do some good in future trades, but oh well, I'm glad the Raps aren't the knicks.
All I have to say is...this trade is beautiful. So many picks to use to draft YOUNG players. There are alot of good prospects in this upcoming draft. The biggest loss was Mohammed and he was expendable since Sweetney needs more minutes. When does Rose's and Taylor's contract expires? If it's before or at the same time as Houston's and JYD's then it's irrelevant how large their contracts are. We'll have four picks to use to prepare for the future. Arguably Isiah's best move since he's been in New York. I have to ask though what's the big deal about one of the picks possibly coming from Pheonix?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">I know what's going on. My main concern is the frontline of the Knicks, even though I don't care. Sweetney will be playing behind Mo, Rose and Kurt. If not, you'll be paying one of them big bucks to sit on the bench...and eventually they'll want out.</div> How us it your concern if you don't care? No Sweetney wont be playing behind them. They will have adjust to this play plus we don't know who will be around and who wont by the start of next season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The picks could do some good, but they're low picks. Isiah did good in his first draft with his low pick, getting Ariza, so I can see some potential there. This whole thing is just messed up with the salaries. I see that it's NY, but its just too messed up...well over 100+ million dollar in payroll for 15 players or so. If they do get 4 picks...they won't use all four, too much of a risk giving out 4, three year contracts to uncertain players. Could do some good in future trades, but oh well, I'm glad the Raps aren't the knicks.</div> The picks do tons of good. As KA pointed out, Isiah is a brilliant drafter. He drafted McGrady, the former Rookie of the Year Damon Stoudemire, and now Ariza. He has great srfat skill so I don't know what they help 'some' means. They help a lot. We can also possibly draft up with those picks. We are messed up in the cap, but your acting as if we were going to clean up anytime soon. We have 25 million coming up next season, we also have other expiring contracts in the years to come. I am glad the Raptors aren't the Knicks either. Thank God! We'd be giving up so much greatness in NY to go and play for Toronto.
You gotta hand it to Isiah, he's got a big imagination. If he drafts good, he's basically changed the direction of the team 180 degrees.
This.......is...........too................funny...... Maurice Taylor....for Vin Baker, Moochie Norris, and a 2006 2nd round pick. Houston has been wanting to trade him for so long. Then, on top of it, the Knicks added Malik Rose. Granted, they got 2 1st rounders.....but they are going to be very, very, very late 1st rounders.....for giving up their decent center.' Poor Sweetney.... 2 and a half more years on Taylor. 3 and a half more years on Rose 2 and a half more years of Williams 3 and a half more years of Thomas Thats 5 PF's on that roster......Granted, Thomas will play some center, and Williams can play some 3.....but still. LMAO...
FINALLY WE TRADED all of our C's but your forgeting the crowd favorite B-R-U-N-O.... I wanna see him play
Vintage, Kurt will be playing at the 5 for a while. JYD plays at the 3 as well as the 4, and often subs in for Ariza or TT. Rose and Taylor...yeah. But I think Sweetney will take the majority of the minutes.
I'm not going to touch upon the picks because that is a moot point. You guys are in great draft postition and Isiah is a master at using his picks to his advantage. But now, Isiah also created a logjam at the 4 position. There was a reason why the Spurs wanted to get rid of Rose and the Rockets wanted to get rid of Taylor. Both teams used their 1st round picks to entice the deal to completion. But who would you give minutes to in the end? I think Sweetney should definitely play over these guys to develope but then you have about 12 million dollars a year sitting on the bench and getting more irate as the season goes along. I think it's just wasted cap space on New Yorks part again. But they got 1st rounders, which softens the blow. In the end Houston and San Antonio just dumped their wasted salary on the Knicks and used picks to complete the deal. I wouldn't call it masterful. It has it's good and bad points. They are in good position next year if they can package the picks to another team but at the same time they just created a huge logjam salary cap handcuff at the 4 spot.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How us it your concern if you don't care? No Sweetney wont be playing behind them. They will have adjust to this play plus we don't know who will be around and who wont by the start of next season.</div> Um ever thought I was a fan of the player? . I can't see any reason for Sweetney to hang around with them if he doesn't get the PT. Sharing the time with Mo, Kurt and Malik and even JYD won't help his development. Even if he does play, a problem for the Knicks will be that one of them will likely not play. Ultimately this thing is about the picks. They could use the two picks in future trades to acquire other players, or use them themselves. They need to identify their core first, and identify the role players. Who knows whats going to go on with the picks? They're going to be low picks, and if the players are with the Knicks, other players will be unhappy due to the lack of PT, or the picks (the players chosen) will be on the bench. Just wait to see how these trades pan out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, Banks, I don't think you get it.</div> I get it what the Knicks are doing man. I just think that Isiah is an idiot going crazy with the teams unlimited payroll. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The picks do tons of good. As KA pointed out, Isiah is a brilliant drafter. He drafted McGrady, the former Rookie of the Year Damon Stoudemire, and now Ariza. He has great srfat skill so I don't know what they help 'some' means. They help a lot. We can also possibly draft up with those picks. We are messed up in the cap, but your acting as if we were going to clean up anytime soon. We have 25 million coming up next season, we also have other expiring contracts in the years to come. I am glad the Raptors aren't the Knicks either. Thank God! We'd be giving up so much greatness in NY to go and play for Toronto.</div> Isiah really hasn't done anything with low picks asides from the drafting of Ariza, which is a big pick, but he hasn't shown much skill draftin with low picks due to his lack of history. You're not really make a lot sense by saying that I'm acting like your gong to "clean up" anytime soon, and then you go on by saying that 25 million comes off the books after next year like it matters . The 25 million coming off the books next season doesn't even matter since Isiah will just be piling up more salaries in the offseason and during the season. I'm saying that I'm Glad the Raps aren't the Knicks because of the logjams at posistions and horrible cap situations.
I am very surprised that San Antonio went through with the trade, because in my opinion the Spurs got robbed. Either that or they badly wanted to get rid of Rose. Good trade from the Knick's stand point; maybe we'll see Sweetney become the starting PF, K.Thomas is certainly the center now .
San Antonio didn't get robbed. San Antonio is a small market team. Meaning they have limits to their own spending. Unloading Rose was huge. He had a long contract with quite a bit of money tied up. It means they can use the MLE this summer. It means that that Devin Brown will probably be back. Meanwhile, San Antonio is fielding a championship caliber team which will cost them around $45-46 million this season. It also gives San Antonio some size upfront besides Duncan and Rasho. Mohammed is a solid big man, which will help down the stretch with resting Duncan and Rasho. Meanwhile, Mohammed's contract is done after next year, while Rose would have went another for an additional 2 seasons, making Tony Parker's salary increase a virtual wash. The 2 1st rounders? Phoenix and San Antonio will have two very, very low picks in the draft. I swear, some people think about the NBA in terms of managing a sim league. San Antonio gets to avoid the luxury tax and keep an average sized payroll and feilding a competitive team. Great for them. Two late firsts aren't that great..... NBADraft.net has Phoenix and San Antonio with the last picks in the 1st round(I know that will change, but just for fun....) Since 1995 1995: Greg Ostertag, Cory Alexander 1996: Priest Lauderdale, Travis Knight 1997:Jacque Vaughn, Keith Booth 1998: Corey Benjamin, Nazr Mohammed 1999: Scott Padgett, Leon Smith 2000: Erick Barkley, Mark Madsen 2001: Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker 2002: Chris Jeffries, Dan Dickau 2003: Leandrinho Barbosa, Josh Howard 2004: Beno Udrih, David Harrison Outside of Howard, Tinsley, and Parker, nothing really special. Udrih and Barbosa could be potentially something. Mohammed is solid. Out of 20, 3 are quality players. 2 more could develop. 1 solid player. Ironically, its San Antonio that has 3 of those twenty. At that point, you aren't really getting any great players, unless you luck out. San Antonio basically dumped Malik Rose and two more guaranteed contracts for Nazr Mohammed. Where did San Antonio screw up?
Excellent post, Vintage. Brilliant points. You don't seem confident that the Knicks would get anybody good in the last 2 picks, but look at Isiah's history. I know, not perfect but solid. Once more, that was a superb post.
Just a couple thoughts/questions: Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but according to HoopsHype.com, I believe Penny's and TT's contracts come off not this offseason, but next. That means you're still at $109 million this offseason. Also, if the season ended today, Houston's pick would be #20, San Antonio's #30, Phoenix's #29. Those aren't exactly great picks, might as well get a second rounder from Atlanta or Charlotte. So I'm not sure I'd be so excited about those picks. Lastly - I appreciate the tough situation the Knicks are in. On the one hand, you need to rebuild. On the other, in NYC, you can't put it on pause for 3 years while you wait for young talent to come along. So it's a problem. But at some point you need to bite the bullet and really commit to rebuilding. And it's something Isiah won't do. Now, if these trades are looked at as a rebuilding move, then he might as well go the full way and just start picking apart the team. But if not, then I don't see any point to them. Just my thoughts.
What about the players that come out of the second round year after year. We could just as easily get them near the end of the first.
I doubt we'll even get that draft pick we traded to Phoenix--We don't get it if they finish in the top 3.
The Knicks only get one first round pick from San Antonio, and ESPN wrongly reported that Houston gave up a first. They only gave up a second. The Knicks didn't do good in both trades. Not only did they give up their one and only center, they got two dead contracts in return. Taylor has no defensive game whatsoever, and from being a Rockets fan, I'd like to tell you Knicks fans that his stats are very deceiving. On a team with Marbury and Crawford dominating the ball, Taylor would be lucky to get 20 minutes per game and 6 shots. Not worth the $7 mil that the Knicks will be paying him for the next four years. Rose is a good player, sure, but the Knicks could've gotten much more for Nazr (I don't like how you guys call him Nazi). The pick would not essentially turn out to be a steal, although Thomas might have a good record with draft picks. Rose has another big contract, and at 6-7, is pretty undersized at the four. Thomas playing the five could work, but with Chris Webber, Antoine Walker and Bosh all playing in the same division, New York could have problems making the playoffs still.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Um ever thought I was a fan of the player? . I can't see any reason for Sweetney to hang around with them if he doesn't get the PT. Sharing the time with Mo, Kurt and Malik and even JYD won't help his development. Even if he does play, a problem for the Knicks will be that one of them will likely not play.</div> Um, no. Never thought so because of what you say about some Knicks . Adding these players will add some depth to the Knicks. Malik can play the 3 or the 4, who provides energy and experience off the bench. Taylor gives us some more size and can is very talented on the offensive end. He can shoot the midrange jumper very effectively and putting him, with TT, and Kurt Thomas on the floor can create absolute havoc on the shooting. That just opens it up for Marbury's penetration. Sweetney will get some minutes and adding more depth to his position will not completely kill his development like many of you suggest. Also, you don't know what's up Isiah's sleeves. Kurt Thomas is likely gone next season as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ultimately this thing is about the picks. They could use the two picks in future trades to acquire other players, or use them themselves. They need to identify their core first, and identify the role players. Who knows whats going to go on with the picks? They're going to be low picks, and if the players are with the Knicks, other players will be unhappy due to the lack of PT, or the picks (the players chosen) will be on the bench. Just wait to see how these trades pan out. </div> The picks were huge. The Knicks can possibly package all of them and get a top 5 pick. I think someone would bite on that. Anyway, Isiah is a good drafter and there have been many succesful players that come from that round. Maybe not potential superstars will be that low this year, but they could develop into solid role players for the team. We will have to see how the trades pan out. There have been many "what are you smoking" kind of deals that end up surprisingly good for the team. So, we'll have to see how they turn out. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Isiah really hasn't done anything with low picks asides from the drafting of Ariza, which is a big pick, but he hasn't shown much skill draftin with low picks due to his lack of history. </div> Well, what's stopping him from drafting another Ariza, or possibly using them to get a higher draft position? At the very least, he could draft a good role player for the Knicks. Any pick is good and especially with Isiah Thomas drafting. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You're not really make a lot sense by saying that I'm acting like your gong to "clean up" anytime soon, and then you go on by saying that 25 million comes off the books after next year like it matters . The 25 million coming off the books next season doesn't even matter since Isiah will just be piling up more salaries in the offseason and during the season.</div> We weren't cleaning up cap very soon. Teams go crazy over salary cap...(see Baron Davis to Warriors) and with 25 million dollars coming off I'm sure many teams would take that and at the very least, some cap is coming off for us, one step at a time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm saying that I'm Glad the Raps aren't the Knicks because of the logjams at posistions and horrible cap situations.</div> I'm saying I'm glad that the Knicks aren't the Raptors because NY is a better place than Toronto IMO.
Mrj- you're the most sarcastic guy I know, take that however you want to. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He can shoot the midrange jumper very effectively and putting him, with TT, and Kurt Thomas on the floor can create absolute havoc on the shooting. That just opens it up for Marbury's penetration.</div>Doing that will also kill your chances on defensive rebounding. Nobody except K Thomas rebounds. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The picks were huge. The Knicks can possibly package all of them and get a top 5 pick. I think someone would bite on that. </div>Umm, no. I don't think the last pick in the first round and a second rounder would be worth a top 5 pick, unless you throw in your own, which might just be a top 5 pick anyways. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There have been many "what are you smoking" kind of deals that end up surprisingly good for the team. So, we'll have to see how they turn out.</div>Yeah, but most of them never end up helping the team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well, what's stopping him from drafting another Ariza, or possibly using them to get a higher draft position? At the very least, he could draft a good role player for the Knicks. Any pick is good and especially with Isiah Thomas drafting. </div>Not so sure, but what other picks has Thomas made besides McGrady and Ariza? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm saying I'm glad that the Knicks aren't the Raptors because NY is a better place than Toronto IMO.</div>Huh? I think he didn't mean it geographically?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks only get one first round pick from San Antonio, and ESPN wrongly reported that Houston gave up a first. They only gave up a second.</div> Another wrong report?? What's up with them these past few days? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Knicks didn't do good in both trades. Not only did they give up their one and only center, they got two dead contracts in return. Taylor has no defensive game whatsoever, and from being a Rockets fan, I'd like to tell you Knicks fans that his stats are very deceiving. On a team with Marbury and Crawford dominating the ball, Taylor would be lucky to get 20 minutes per game and 6 shots. Not worth the $7 mil that the Knicks will be paying him for the next four years. Rose is a good player, sure, but the Knicks could've gotten much more for Nazr (I don't like how you guys call him Nazi). The pick would not essentially turn out to be a steal, although Thomas might have a good record with draft picks. Rose has another big contract, and at 6-7, is pretty undersized at the four. Thomas playing the five could work, but with Chris Webber, Antoine Walker and Bosh all playing in the same division, New York could have problems making the playoffs still.</div> Well the picks are still big for us nevertheless. We get 4 I beleive and packaging a potential lottery pick (maybe 7th) along with two late 1st rounders, and a decently high second round pick, can get us in pretty good draft position. I think with Taylor shifting over, his mere presnce will stretch the floor. Him and Kurt will be big threats with a penetrator like Mabury around. I didn't see how much different his stats would be from Houston. He had McGrady and Yao dominating the ball a lot as well so I don't see a huge differnce. Rose and Taylor are better than Nazi, the only thing that wasn't so good is their contracts. That's it. Rose is a hard worker and at 6'7 he is a bit undersized, but effectiveness is what matters. He can also play the 3, and provides great energy off the bench. These days it seems as if only JYD provides that. Also, it may look bad now, but until we see its true results, than we can comment on whether it was a good trade or not. I think Isiah Thomas has something big up his sleeves and although it might seem dumb or whatever, those kinds of trades sometimes prove to be the most successful. Let's wait and wee how this one plays out.
