<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Kobe Bryant: Perception vs. reality Kobe Bryant (27.8 ppg, 6.6 apg and 6.2 rpg), LeBron James (25.4 ppg, 7.7 apg and 7.1 rpg) and Dwyane Wade (23.5 ppg, 7.3 apg and 5.2 rpg) are three of the top perimeter players in the NBA. Each ranks in the top ten in scoring and is a nightly triple-double threat, yet James and Wade are lauded for making their teammates better while Bryant has been widely labeled as selfish. Among those who consider that criticism unfair is veteran NBA player, assistant coach and head coach Fred Carter, who currently analyzes games for NBA TV. "For some people perception is reality," Carter said. "The echoed word becomes the accepted word. It becomes the choice phrase. But he won titles and he does get the assists. He does get steals and he does get blocks. He's not a guy who just plays on the offensive end. What happens is that people have the tendency to echo the words of everyone else. It's unfortunate."</div>Read more...
I really don't see how he is selfish...he is averaging what? About 2 more shots than last year. He is almost averaging 7 assists, he would be averaging atleast 8 if his teammates hit some of the shots he set up for them...
Good read, and very well put. It's actully pretty funny to hear the reasons why people hate kobe bryant, its always the same thing... "He's cocky" - yet they love MJ who in my opinion was more stuck on himself then anyone on the planet. (with good reason, but still) "He's not from the streets" - Might be the dumbest stuff ive ever heard. Since when does "coming from the street" or "street cred" make you a great basketball player? There has been WAY more great players not from the "street" then those who have "Street Cred" ....oh we hate him cause we dont like his shoe.....smh "He cheated on his wife" - SO DID MJ! did you even know hes going back to court right now because the woman he payed to keepy quiet is going public again?? The machine is keeping it under wraps as always. "He doesnt make his teamates better" - LMAO...hate to keep bringing up mike, but they said the same thing about mike once too. You dont average 6+ assist as a SG while being selfish, stupid idiots. Bottom line is, there is never a valid point to anyones argument. Either that or the people really have no real reason why they hate kobe, its just the perception they except.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The echoed word becomes the accepted word.</div>I think the stupidest thing I've ever heard echoed was "Kobe doesn't play defense," yet he's All-NBA Defensive Team.
The naysayers on this site (there are many of em) say that "Kobe only made the All-sta defensive team because Shaq used to clog the middle"...really? So what do you say now? Kobe Bryant is one of the rare STAR shooting guards who play both offense and defense, I really don't get the proof people present while bringing that up because his All Defensive teams speak for themselves. You don't just get All Defensive teams because you play with a big man, you get it because you play DEFENSE and obviously his stats have shown that. And it's funny how people say that Kobe cannot make teammates better when he is obviously doing so. I'm pretty sure Chris Mihm wasn't this solid with the Celts and I know Atkins wasn't half as consistent as he is now when he was with the Pistons. Nevertheless, he does tend to force up shots at time but he's just a player, he's not perfect and you can say that about any superstar. I think the knock came on Kobe after the 2003 incident because it gave people more of an incentive to hate him and add more labels to be placed upon him. The biggest reason people say they hate him is that "he tries to be like MJ and he will never be, he's too cocky".... I'm confused when people bring that up because you can say the exact same thing about MJ. To say Jordan wasn't cocky is to disgrace his legacy . What Jordan are you watching? Sorry to go on a rant but I have to express my views. How can the same people who want "soft" players like Vince and Dirk to be cocky say that Kobe is too cocky for his own good. He's cocky how? That he wants to win? That he knows he has skills? I don't get the philosphy behind that. The same people that say that you need cockyness to win in the NBA are the same people that bash Kobe for "being to cocky". That is pretty much contradiction in its finest form and people need to realize that if you're going to make a point about a player you have to bring up facts that speak for themselves rather then opinions. While on the Jordan topic (though I don't want to compare them), people seem to neglect that Kobe has the same qulities that Jordan had, which leads me to wonder: Are people (people who grew up watching Jordan) just afraid to accept that there could be someone who can surpass Jordan? Or was it because he was too good, too young? Though it astounds me that for some reason they have no problem with Lebron rocking 23, calling himself chosen and getting comparisons to Jordan. I can only sum up people hating on Kobe for stupid reasons in one sentence: "The echoed word becomes the accepted word." Exactly. Don't be listening to some next ESPN writers and basing your views on Kobe on that, watch his games, see how he plays and what his team's record is with him and without him and be the judge. I'm not trying to compare Jordan to Kobe because Jordan WAS better but people keep comparing Kobe to Jordan when he has nothing to do with this. Kobe has started his solo flight 9 years into his NBA career. Don't judge him till the end. To the people still stuck on the "Jordan is better I don't care" stage, let me explain it to you in terms you will understand. Jordan took until 1991 to win a championship by himself and by then, he was surrounded with a perfect blend of players to compliment his skills. Kobe is in year 1 of his solo process. Calm yourselves down and give him a break, you can start riding the bandwagon when he starts winning . Sorry about the essay.
Great post Spawn, and to add my 2 cents to it. What is wrong with Kobe immulating Jordan in the first place? His generation grew up watching Jordan dominate the league. In any profession, isn't it a good idea to follow in the footsteps of the successful role model of your chosen industry? Why is it different then for Kobe copying Jordan? I give him credit for trying to copy the blueprint for winning the championship as a shooting guard and adding his own legacy to it at the same time. My only reservations on Kobe was his behavior off the court and committing adultery, there's no defending it and no excuse for him doing that, especially with a kid. But that's neither here nor there.
There are very few arguments one can be totally 100% confident. There are 2 arguments that i really believe in and nothing could change my opinion at this point. 1. Michael Jordan is the single greatest basketball player EVER. There is no need to explain any further. 2. Kobe Bryant is easily the best SG since MJ and in my himble opinion the single best player in the entire NBA since MJ retired in 98'..... Last year i thought KG was the best for that year....but kobe has been consistant in his numbers, his ability and regaurdless if people hate...deep down inside, if your a true basketball fan that has 1 hint of knowledge about this game and its history cannot honestly ignore the fact that kobe bryant is the closest to jordan there has ever been and prolly ever will be. And he is easily the most dynamic player since MJ circa 1998'
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting spawn:</div><div class="quote_post">Jordan took until 1991 to win a championship by himself and by then, he was surrounded with a perfect blend of players to compliment his skills. Kobe is in year 1 of his solo process. </div> Great take on this, spawn. I particularly like this part that you said. I think that comparing MJ and Kobe is an overrated debate, and that you have to look at the bigger picture, which is the team as a whole. MJ, not to take away from his legendary game, was successful because he had exactly what you said, "a perfect blend of players to compliment his skills." Basketball is about teamwork, complimenting your teammates' strengths and help covering up your teammates' weaknesses. And it wasn't just the teammates...it was the triangle offense that was <u>perfectly</u> suited for the players and vice versa. The Lakers are a work in progress, and just as you said, this is year one for Kobe's solo flight. It will take time for this squad to add the right pieces to the puzzle and get adjusted to eachother...but when that time comes, the Lakers will once again be contenders.
have you guys read the whole article? its acually pretty good! its just the first two paragraphs that are hating kobe the rest are acually supporting him
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I really don't see how he is selfish...he is averaging what? About 2 more shots than last year. He is almost averaging 7 assists, he would be averaging atleast 8 if his teammates hit some of the shots he set up for them...</div> Don't say this, I think that's a terrible excuse, if Baron can be averaging almost 8 assists on New Orleans, then no one can be complaining about not having competent enough teammates to make shots, it's not like the Lakers as a team shoot 40% or something, they shoot fairly well. I really don't like when people say this <u>unless</u> the player is on a team with guys who are offensive liabilities, that means can't create their own shot or even hit open shots, the Michael Curry's, Erivin Johnson's etc... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The naysayers on this site (there are many of em) say that "Kobe only made the All-sta defensive team because Shaq used to clog the middle"...really? So what do you say now? Kobe Bryant is one of the rare STAR shooting guards who play both offense and defense, I really don't get the proof people present while bringing that up because his All Defensive teams speak for themselves. You don't just get All Defensive teams because you play with a big man, you get it because you play DEFENSE and obviously his stats have shown that.</div> Actually playing with a good big man helps you if they're a imposing shot blocker. Ask Tayshaun Prince, Tayshaun isn't good at preventing players from getting to the basket because he isn't as quick as many other SG/SF's, but with Ben and Rasheed behind him, players don't want to drive and force jumpers, so yes it does help. Kobe is a very good defender, more of a second team defender than a first team defender, but good nonetheless, he's overatted defensively sometimes by some media people though. McGrady in Houston has become a good defender too, but no one has really given him props for that, he's just a very tiny notch below Kobe's defensive performance this season.
^^^ Although i agree with most of your statement, but 2nd team?... then in your opinion who deserves to be 1st? Which SG deserves to be 1st team over Kobe?
no sg is beter than kobe. the only guy is mj. i hate kobehaters. they jealous. they dont know anytthing.they always say hes too selfish.when u explain to them they say ,"i doesnt matter"
kobe doesnt play d is bull. who saw all star game? when kobe play d, he can hound them like he did to iverson
^ I don't think I've seen a reference yet that Kobe isn't a good defender, so I don't know about that one. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^ Although i agree with most of your statement, but 2nd team?... then in your opinion who deserves to be 1st? Which SG deserves to be 1st team over Kobe?</div> I would've put Jason Kidd over him for last season, and also Eric Snow and Ginobili. Earl Watson and Shane Battier could make huge cases too, though Battier doesn't get recognized as much for his defensive efforts. Mickael Pietrus would beat all those guys, but he didn't play enough to be rewarded like that, but his defense is pretty crazy. Kobe is a very good defender, and can have stretches where he shuts people down, but he doesn't bring the same consistent defensive efforts as some of the other guys, though it's obviously harder for him since he has more offensive responsibilities, but the Lakers also haven't been putting him om the opposing teams best offensive player except for maybe down the stretch. The thing is that he'll have the stretches where he shuts a guy down, and people will remember those.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^ I don't think I've seen a reference yet that Kobe isn't a good defender, so I don't know about that one. I would've put Jason Kidd over him for last season, and also Eric Snow and Ginobili. Earl Watson and Shane Battier could make huge cases too, though Battier doesn't get recognized as much for his defensive efforts. Mickael Pietrus would beat all those guys, but he didn't play enough to be rewarded like that, but his defense is pretty crazy. Kobe is a very good defender, and can have stretches where he shuts people down, but he doesn't bring the same consistent defensive efforts as some of the other guys, though it's obviously harder for him since he has more offensive responsibilities, but the Lakers also haven't been putting him om the opposing teams best offensive player except for maybe down the stretch. The thing is that he'll have the stretches where he shuts a guy down, and people will remember those.</div> Last year, I would have put Kobe ahead of all those players. The only player I would have possibly put ahead of him would be Jason Kidd. This year, Kobe has not been the same player on defense. I don't think he's even 2nd team worthy, because he's no longer responsible for guarding the opposing teams better offensive player. His steals are down and he's just not consistent in all four quaters. A lot of it has to do with is increased role on offense, and Butler is now the player responsible to shoot the gaps. I think Kobe needs to bulk up again to the size he was before his trial and off court incident. He was a lot more effective and explosive on both ends at that size. And he was a lot more effective in the post.
I would've put Jason Kidd over him for last season, and also Eric Snow and Ginobili. Earl Watson and Shane Battier And how many of them are SG's? Kidd - no Ginobli-3/not a starter last year. Snow- no Battier- 3 last time i checked Watson- unsure
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I would've put Jason Kidd over him for last season, and also Eric Snow and Ginobili. Earl Watson and Shane Battier </div> None of these players are the number one scoring options on thier teams so it makes Kobe's achievements even better in my eyes since he had to play both offense and defense. I don't expect him to play defense every single moment of every game because even the defense specialists of the league let up at times but as long as he steps up when neccsary then all is well and good. You also have to remmeber that the only two other SG's i nthis league who share his kind of offensive responsibilites and play defense at the same time would be P-Squared and Tmac and Tmac didn't even start playing defense more often till this year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And how many of them are SG's? Kidd - no Ginobli-3/not a starter last year. Snow- no Battier- 3 last time i checked Watson- unsure</div> Ginobili is a SG, and I don't think being a starter should matter, didn't Micahel Cooper win DPOY as a 6th man? Also the positions go G-G-F-F-C, not PG-SG-SF-PF-C, they're interchangeable. Bruce Bowen a forward made it last season as a guard, in previous years, KG and Duncan have been the forwards, and are both PF's, and Bruce Bowen and Ron Artest at F on second team, and are both SF's. In 00-01 and 01-02, NBA First team guards were Gary Payton and Jason Kidd, and second team Kobe Bryant and Doug Christie, 2 PG's, and 2 SG's. So yea, it's G-G-F-F-C <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">None of these players are the number one scoring options on thier teams so it makes Kobe's achievements even better in my eyes since he had to play both offense and defense. I don't expect him to play defense every single moment of every game because even the defense specialists of the league let up at times but as long as he steps up when neccsary then all is well and good. You also have to remmeber that the only two other SG's i nthis league who share his kind of offensive responsibilites and play defense at the same time would be P-Squared and Tmac and Tmac didn't even start playing defense more often till this year.</div> I would say Jason Kidd has as much offensive responsibility, not as a starter, but as a facilitator, but Kidd got injured last season, actually so did Kobe, so I don't know.
