Which Atlantic team do you think has the brightest future, say 2-4 years? Rate the teams and explain your reasons especially if you feel i left anything out. Any additional info would be great. Boston has some great young talent in Allen, Jefferson, has well has a few talented young men in West, Banks and Perkins. Not sure on their pick situation, but i do believe they still have one 2005 first rounder remaining. Contract wise, they've got Toine coming off the cap this year, though if they want to resign him he'll cost a fair amount. Overall not too much financial flexability, but it really depends on how much Toine costs. Future Outook: B Phili has some great young talent in Dalembert, Iggy, Green and Korver. Barnes also looks solid. Cap wise Phili is in trouble, with 50 million invested in 3 aging, health risk players (Mash, Webber, AI). They'll need to resign their talent to fill the voids left by Webber and AI when their over the hill. Phili looses its pick to the Raptors if not in the top 8 this year. Future Outlook: B- New Jersey has the same cap problems has Philli in that its 2 most expensive players have injury problems to back up their enormous salaries (nearly 40 million between Kidd and Carter), not to mention Jeffersons extension. However this offseason their payroll is workable with only minor players like Scalabrine, Collins, Buford, Vaughn and Best needing to be resigned. While quality players, none should be especially expensive. I know the Nets have a left over 1st rounder from the Martin trade, and thier own, but other than that i'm not sure on their pick situation. (whose and when?) Young talent? They have some. Kristic, Collins, Jefferson, Scalabrine, Jabari Smith, Billy Thomas and Zoran Planinic are all decent to great players and are all in their first 3 years of NBA basketball. Future Outlook: B+ New York Knicks. I have a history of dogging the Knicks because i hate the NY philosophy of buying W's. I mean some teams are going to spend more than others...but when you dwarf the competing teams in salary by the margins they do, i just think its a talentless way of buidling a winning ball club. I'll try to be objective though. Cap wise....nevermind. They have no hope of signing any major free agent for another 3 years at the minimum, and thats assuming they dont unload their ending contracts for more overpaid players that other teams are trying to get rid of. They do have some young talent though. Ariza seems to be a solid player with potential to be decent NBA player some day. Sweetney also has alot of potential, though he'll need to keep his weight down and keep working hard, but he could end up being a poor mans Elton Brand some day. Jamal Crawford is 24 and he can score, though he'll need to become more efficient and less selfish. His play hasnt really improved since his Chicago days, but lets hope he can mature a little and play some solid team ball. The Knicks also signed a young guy named Butler, who is an unproven CBA player but who knows he might work....and he might not. Picks wise the Knicks owe a first rounder either this year if its not in the lottery, or next year unprotected. They also have no second rounder for this coming year due to the Mo Taylor trade. They do have 2 first rounders from Pheonix this year and the Spurs the year after, but those picks *should* end up being 28-30th. Trade wise their sort of stuck, in having not many pieces to deal that other teams want, other than giving up their young talent and/or their limited draft picks. They do have some expiring contracts for 2006 but those usually will only get you another player with injuries/bad contract situation, Baron Davis for example. Future Outlook: C- Toronto. My favorite team, and i think they could serve me well in the next few years. Toronto has 2 picks this coming year, their own and Phili's. The year after they have their own and Denvers, which should all be mid to early first round. Cap wise they've got Zo's coming off the books from the buyout has well has Montross' and 'Yells. If Aaron Williams doesnt pick up his player option for 3 million that might help too. Overall they have some flexibility contract wise, and trade wise, with several attractive players nicely priced (Rafer 4 million, EWill 3 million). Young talent wise they have the best youngen in the division in Chris Bosh who is only getting better since the VC trade. He has potential to be a KG type player. The Raps also have Pape Sow, Matt Bonner and Rafael Araujo has a nice young core of bigs with potential. Bonner has been putting up good numbers all season with Araujo struggling but showing flashes of being a very solid 6-11 280 pound center. Pape has loads of potential but is very raw. Future Outlook: A
It's hard for me to tell because the only team I really follow in the Atlantic Division is the Raptors, but I can say that the Raps have a bright future - with Chris Bosh, especially. I hope CB4 stays with the Raps for a long time.
It seems that most of our stars that we hold seem to bolt out of this city but the truth is that all of the stars (except maybe Damon and Tracy) have loved and embraced Toronto. I really hope and believe that Bosh will stay because this city has really embraced him as much as they did Vince Carter, Jerome Williams etc. However, it's hard to say which team has the brightest future now because anything could happen. And also by future, how far ahead do you mean?
I agree with everything except for the Raptors. Their outlooks is much brighter tahn other teams in the Atlantic(for once), but Babcock's judgement doesn't leave me with much faith in him. I mean that Vince trade could have netted us alot more, and we coulda landed a solid player(if not players or picks) for Donyell. Pape is raw but I like his outlook and some scouts saying he has flashes of being a KG type player. As for Araujo I still think he pick was watsed on him(we got him to address our issue in the front court..but that didnt't pan out well) Overall I think we need a bit more to sign some free agnets, but I think our outlook is a tad brighter thanthe rest of the atlantic(only a tad, mind you). I am very interested in Philly's and New Jerseys off season transactions though.
saidfhasd <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ariza seems to be a solid player with potential to be decent NBA player some day</div> He is a decent NBA player now with the potential to be a much better than average player
What a difference a day makes? I think you could argue the Atlantic Division went from the worst in the East, to first in the East. Every team has improved since the trade deadline in one way or another. Each team has a solid trio of players for next season. Boston - Pierce, Walker (assuming he re-signs), Davis Philly - Iverson, Webber, Iguodala New Jersey - Kidd, Carter, Jefferson New York - Marbury, Crawford, Sweetny Toronto - Alston, Rose, Bosh I'm looking forward to the division battle next season. In two or four years, I have to go with the Celtics for the most potential. They had a great draft adding West, Allen, and Jefferson. When the time comes they will have tradeable pieces with Pierce, Blount, Walker, and LaFrentz, plus they could get the Lakers draft pick this year if the Lakers make the playoffs. So with 3 young players already, plus possibly two more draft picks this year, the Celtics are going to have a solid young core for the next few years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">What a difference a day makes? I think you could argue the Atlantic Division went from the worst in the East, to first in the East. Every team has improved since the trade deadline in one way or another. Each team has a solid trio of players for next season. Boston - Pierce, Walker (assuming he re-signs), Davis Philly - Iverson, Webber, Iguodala New Jersey - Kidd, Carter, Jefferson New York - Marbury, Crawford, Sweetny Toronto - Alston, Rose, Bosh I'm looking forward to the division battle next season. In two or four years, I have to go with the Celtics for the most potential. They had a great draft adding West, Allen, and Jefferson. When the time comes they will have tradeable pieces with Pierce, Blount, Walker, and LaFrentz, plus they could get the Lakers draft pick this year if the Lakers make the playoffs. So with 3 young players already, plus possibly two more draft picks this year, the Celtics are going to have a solid young core for the next few years.</div> You have some good points, and I agree the Celtics future is bright. I think I'll up my opinion of the celtics future up to a B+. One question....are the C's draft picks this year both first round? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post"> He is a decent NBA player now with the potential to be a much better than average player</div> I agree he's pretty decent this season, and he's young so he has potential, however i dont like judging players totally on there first season. Just because he seems to be good now doesnt mean he'll continue it. And i'm not even talking injuries. Alot of players die off after having unexpected first seasons. Caron Butler for example died down alot, although he still is a good player and still has potential. Ariza has all the tools to be a good player in the league for many years to come.
I like the celtics along with the raptors. The C's have a lot of young talents in AJ, Tony Allen and West. With some cap flexibility in the offseason, Ainge could also make an unexpected move (hey, he did trade for Walker..) and with guys like Pierce and Davis who still have atleast another 4-5 good years in them, they could be one of the elite teams in the East in the future. The raptors have well-positioned picks in the draft so they should be able to get talent (mind you, this is a deep draft) and with a guy like Chris Bosh, who is only twenty, leading this team, I would love to see them in 3-4 years. Not sure, but word is the Raptors are still after Dorrell "TMac part deux" Wright and if they can get a guy with that much potential and all thse picks, i like TO's future.
I think the Celtics and Raps have the brightest futures. Both teams have solid draft picks coming up, and have a good core already. The Celtics have a young core of Allen, Jefferson, Perkins, West and Banks to go along with Pierce and posssibly Walker for next year. Add along their pick(s) for this draft and future drafts, I can't see a reason why their future doesn't look bright. The Raptors have the best young (up and coming as well) player out of all these teams IMO, in Chris Bosh. You can see his emergence since the VC trade, as he has florished, getting something like 19, 20 and 9 a night. Not bad for a soph. He's only getting better, and as Hoffa learns the league a bit more, they could have a solid and very good front court. Alston seems to be the X-Factor, but there are plenty of solid PG's in this draft, and it looks like we might take one like Deron Williams, so if Alston gets into and mess, we have the backup young player. Add in our other pick, which will likely be a swingman in McCants, Graham or someone, the future definitely looks bright. Plus we have Captain Crunch, the Red Rocket, Pape Sow and the MVP, Milt Palacio.
I like Toronto, Philadelphia, and Boston's future better than New York or New Jersey. Right now, Toronto has the bunch of picks going for them in the future while Philadelphia and Boston have proven young players that seem to have a great outlook in the next couple of years. I mean, Philadelphia's got an entire roster of nice young players that when, given the minutes can contribute- like Green, Salmons, Dalembert, Iguodala, Korver. Not to mention Mashburn will probably be retiring soon so it leaves Iverson and Webber as the ginormous contracts. Meanwhile, Boston's got Jefferson, Allen, and the guards so both teams have a core group of young players that have alot of potential and skills. The reason why I think New York and New Jersey's future aren't as great as the above are because of their salary caps and players. New York is buried so low under their huge expensive contracts that they can't really sign anyone and no one would be willing to pick up any of their players through trades. That way, it gives a slightly less opportunity for their young players. New Jersey meanwhile has Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson- three hefty contracts as well. Plus I don't really thing their young talent is as good as Philadelphia's or Bostons.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">I like Toronto, Philadelphia, and Boston's future better than New York or New Jersey. Right now, Toronto has the bunch of picks going for them in the future while Philadelphia and Boston have proven young players that seem to have a great outlook in the next couple of years. I mean, Philadelphia's got an entire roster of nice young players that when, given the minutes can contribute- like Green, Salmons, Dalembert, Iguodala, Korver. Not to mention Mashburn will probably be retiring soon so it leaves Iverson and Webber as the ginormous contracts. Meanwhile, Boston's got Jefferson, Allen, and the guards so both teams have a core group of young players that have alot of potential and skills. The reason why I think New York and New Jersey's future aren't as great as the above are because of their salary caps and players. New York is buried so low under their huge expensive contracts that they can't really sign anyone and no one would be willing to pick up any of their players through trades. That way, it gives a slightly less opportunity for their young players. New Jersey meanwhile has Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson- three hefty contracts as well. Plus I don't really thing their young talent is as good as Philadelphia's or Bostons.</div>Don't sleep on the Nets, remember they still have 3 draft picks from the Kenyon Martin trade. The Celtics will have two first round picks this year if the Lakers make the playoffs. If the Lakers are lottery, they don't get the Lakers pick this season from the Payton trade.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Don't sleep on the Nets, remember they still have 3 draft picks from the Kenyon Martin trade. The Celtics will have two first round picks this year if the Lakers make the playoffs. If the Lakers are lottery, they don't get the Lakers pick this season from the Payton trade.</div> 2 were traded to the Raps in the Vince Carter deal
Wow, for some reason I could have guessed that Toronto would get an A, while NY would get a C- or lower. First off, those rankings are way off in my opinion. Do you think your personal opinion of NY affected your decision? Let me start off with buying W?s. Scott Layden put us in the horrendous cap state we?re in, but there?s one thing your missing. FA?s can sign with NY because it?s NY. I mean it?s a top market city and automatically players that have deals with Nike or whatever brand get some big bucks just for signing with NY! So that right there relieves us a bit in cap. Also some players such as Rasheed Wallace, Antoine Walker, and Erick Dampier were even considering signing with the Knicks for the MLE! Second off, I disagree with your opinions of NY?s young players namely Ariza and Sweetney. As JWohl rightly pointed out, Ariza is already decent and the sky is the limit for him. He is a nice very young 19 year old with a great work ethic. He has improved dramatically from the beginning of the season to where he is now. People didn?t think Ariza would make their active roster much less get much if any playing time at all. NY is not really known for giving kids time, but he gets roughly 18 minutes per game which is pretty good and he puts up good numbers for that time. I see your post about his weight being irrelevant. I mean it?s true to a certain extent, but just about every rookie comes into the league skinny! It?s not like it only applies for him. Some of the NBA?s best came in skinny the only person off the top of my head who came in exceptional shape is LeBron. I see him eventually being an all-star some day with that talent, work ethic and potential. Now let me talk about Sweetney. I don?t think a poor man?s Brand is a good fit. Sweetney is capable of reaching Brand?s level once he gets sufficient minutes and more freedom. The Knicks are blessed with another young player with a monster work wthic in Sweetney. During the whole summer, he followed an NBA All-Star post up great Mark Aguirre all over the many different cities and various other destinations he went. His game has improved extremely. He is a more than legit post up threat and his usual height disadvantage doesn?t matter. Sweetney on a regular basis snags rebounds from all kinds of centers and simply has a knack for rebounding. He also gets to the line very frequently and has the potential to be one of the leaders in the league in freethrow attempts per game. Once he gets a jumpshot I see him being able to put up 20 and 10 a night when given a good amount of minutes. I don?t see him becoming a ?poor man?s? Brand. Now Jamal Crawford has come from the Bulls when they weren?t as good. So chucking up shots wasn?t a big problem and doing so for 4 years really starts to stick to you. Jamal Crawford was supposed to be a 6th man behind Allan Houston, however his return was thought to be sooner and more permanent. So he is filling in a shooting guard?s shoes as a point guard. So that is a big adjustment for him. I see him adjusting more to his role in the near future. I wasn?t really patient with him than I remembered he?s only 24. He has a huge upside and has shown more than enough flashes for me to even comment on. Me and many Knick fans trust Isiah with our draft. With the 43rd pick he selected a huge talent in Ariza so who knows what he can do with the 28-30th pick. Many good players have been taken late in drafts and some not even drafted! We also don?t know if Isiah can package those picks and get something out of it too, so we can?t judge that yet. Also, with the Knicks getting 30 million dollars in expiring contracts, they can make a huge move. We know teams love cap space, and 30 million dollars can get you a lot! Those are very valuable pieces especially if they are packaged with some picks! Who knows? That?s huge for the future. I also noticed that you are basing most of their success on their financial situation. FA?s are not the only thing to build your team around and with NY and its benefits, a FA can come here as well. So, my take on their future is an B. I also noticed that you gave Toronto an A without giving any negativity in them. I do sense a little bias is bleeding through this thread. Also I think Babcock has some questionable decisions as the GM. Not saying they don?t have a bright future, just think it?s not an A.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">2 were traded to the Raps in the Vince Carter deal</div> I didn't know that, thanks for the info. I thought the Raptors just settled for expiring contracts from that deal. I take back the New Jersey comment, and give a bigger edge to the Raptors.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, for some reason I could have guessed that Toronto would get an A, while NY would get a C- or lower. First off, those rankings are way off in my opinion. Do you think your personal opinion of NY affected your decision? Let me start off with buying W?s. Scott Layden put us in the horrendous cap state we?re in, but there?s one thing your missing. FA?s can sign with NY because it?s NY. I mean it?s a top market city and automatically players that have deals with Nike or whatever brand get some big bucks just for signing with NY! So that right there relieves us a bit in cap. Also some players such as Rasheed Wallace, Antoine Walker, and Erick Dampier were even considering signing with the Knicks for the MLE! Second off, I disagree with your opinions of NY?s young players namely Ariza and Sweetney. As JWohl rightly pointed out, Ariza is already decent and the sky is the limit for him. He is a nice very young 19 year old with a great work ethic. He has improved dramatically from the beginning of the season to where he is now. People didn?t think Ariza would make their active roster much less get much if any playing time at all. NY is not really known for giving kids time, but he gets roughly 18 minutes per game which is pretty good and he puts up good numbers for that time. I see your post about his weight being irrelevant. I mean it?s true to a certain extent, but just about every rookie comes into the league skinny! It?s not like it only applies for him. Some of the NBA?s best came in skinny the only person off the top of my head who came in exceptional shape is LeBron. I see him eventually being an all-star some day with that talent, work ethic and potential. Now let me talk about Sweetney. I don?t think a poor man?s Brand is a good fit. Sweetney is capable of reaching Brand?s level once he gets sufficient minutes and more freedom. The Knicks are blessed with another young player with a monster work wthic in Sweetney. During the whole summer, he followed an NBA All-Star post up great Mark Aguirre all over the many different cities and various other destinations he went. His game has improved extremely. He is a more than legit post up threat and his usual height disadvantage doesn?t matter. Sweetney on a regular basis snags rebounds from all kinds of centers and simply has a knack for rebounding. He also gets to the line very frequently and has the potential to be one of the leaders in the league in freethrow attempts per game. Once he gets a jumpshot I see him being able to put up 20 and 10 a night when given a good amount of minutes. I don?t see him becoming a ?poor man?s? Brand. Now Jamal Crawford has come from the Bulls when they weren?t as good. So chucking up shots wasn?t a big problem and doing so for 4 years really starts to stick to you. Jamal Crawford was supposed to be a 6th man behind Allan Houston, however his return was thought to be sooner and more permanent. So he is filling in a shooting guard?s shoes as a point guard. So that is a big adjustment for him. I see him adjusting more to his role in the near future. I wasn?t really patient with him than I remembered he?s only 24. He has a huge upside and has shown more than enough flashes for me to even comment on. Me and many Knick fans trust Isiah with our draft. With the 43rd pick he selected a huge talent in Ariza so who knows what he can do with the 28-30th pick. Many good players have been taken late in drafts and some not even drafted! We also don?t know if Isiah can package those picks and get something out of it too, so we can?t judge that yet. Also, with the Knicks getting 30 million dollars in expiring contracts, they can make a huge move. We know teams love cap space, and 30 million dollars can get you a lot! Those are very valuable pieces especially if they are packaged with some picks! Who knows? That?s huge for the future. I also noticed that you are basing most of their success on their financial situation. FA?s are not the only thing to build your team around and with NY and its benefits, a FA can come here as well. So, my take on their future is an B. I also noticed that you gave Toronto an A without giving any negativity in them. I do sense a little bias is bleeding through this thread. Also I think Babcock has some questionable decisions as the GM. Not saying they don?t have a bright future, just think it?s not an A.</div>I don't agree with the C- rating, but the only players on contract in the next 4 years for the Knicks are Marbury and Jamal Crawford. The rest of the teams in the Atlantic have their key players locked in longer. Of course a lot will happen in 4 years, but with all things being equal, not having players aboard in the next 4 years for the Knicks is both good and bad. New York is very alluring for players because it's a major city and the history of MSG. I would give the Knicks a C+ or B- at this point. Depending on who they use their picks on and whether or not they can keep their current young talent will determine whether they are C+ or B-.
I really like Boston and Toronto's potential. Boston has a great core of young players in their system in Jefferson, Allen and West. All of them are solid players with two potential superstars in Jefferson and Allen. They also have good veterans around them in Pierce, Walker and maybe Payton if he comes back. So not only will they develope individually, they have veterans in practice to push them to their limits. Toronto I can be a bit biased towards of course but for good reason. They have a definite future superstar in Chris Bosh. The kid is only 20 years old and he is posting all-star numbers since Vince left the building. The jury is still out on their young centre Hoffa but I have seen enough things to think that this kid could have a good future ahead of him. His toughness, mid range game and passing ability remind me of Brad Miller at times. Sure I would have liked to have Iguodala right now but beggers can't be choosers now can they? Add in the fact that we have two picks this season (Lottery and mid-range 15-20) and two more picks next season (ours and Denvers) and we are in prime position to build a solid foundation around Bosh. Just as long as Babcock doesn't F it up.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, for some reason I could have guessed that Toronto would get an A, while NY would get a C- or lower. First off, those rankings are way off in my opinion. Do you think your personal opinion of NY affected your decision? </div> I did, after all, let it be known that bias could come into it in voicing my history with the Knicks and my support of the Raptors. Pointing out something that I've already pointed out is abit silly. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me start off with buying Ws. Scott Layden put us in the horrendous cap state were in, but theres one thing your missing. FAs can sign with NY because its NY. I mean its a top market city and automatically players that have deals with Nike or whatever brand get some big bucks just for signing with NY! So that right there relieves us a bit in cap. Also some players such as Rasheed Wallace, Antoine Walker, and Erick Dampier were even considering signing with the Knicks for the MLE! Ah But Rasheed Wallace and Erick Dampier didnt sign for the MLE did they? Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. And i agree that NY like LA has the allure of being a maximum market, and Nike and Reebok do pay more to players if there in one of those markets. However the problem is, usually only the very good players have significant endorsement deals. So sure they're making more money of endorsements, but they're also taking 5 million a season pay has opposed to a 12 or 14 million dollar deal. I mean its possible, for some players with huge deals it would be worth it. One question for you though....name me a player thats signed with the Knicks for less money rather than another team for more. [quote name='mrj18'] Second off, I disagree with your opinions of NYs young players namely Ariza and Sweetney. As JWohl rightly pointed out, Ariza is already decent and the sky is the limit for him. He is a nice very young 19 year old with a great work ethic. He has improved dramatically from the beginning of the season to where he is now. People didnt think Ariza would make their active roster much less get much if any playing time at all. NY is not really known for giving kids time, but he gets roughly 18 minutes per game which is pretty good and he puts up good numbers for that time. I see your post about his weight being irrelevant. I mean its true to a certain extent, but just about every rookie comes into the league skinny! Its not like it only applies for him. Some of the NBAs best came in skinny the only person off the top of my head who came in exceptional shape is LeBron. I see him eventually being an all-star some day with that talent, work ethic and potential. Now let me talk about Sweetney. I dont think a poor mans Brand is a good fit. Sweetney is capable of reaching Brands level once he gets sufficient minutes and more freedom. The Knicks are blessed with another young player with a monster work wthic in Sweetney. During the whole summer, he followed an NBA All-Star post up great Mark Aguirre all over the many different cities and various other destinations he went. His game has improved extremely. He is a more than legit post up threat and his usual height disadvantage doesnt matter. Sweetney on a regular basis snags rebounds from all kinds of centers and simply has a knack for rebounding. He also gets to the line very frequently and has the potential to be one of the leaders in the league in freethrow attempts per game. Once he gets a jumpshot I see him being able to put up 20 and 10 a night when given a good amount of minutes. I dont see him becoming a poor mans Brand. Now Jamal Crawford has come from the Bulls when they werent as good. So chucking up shots wasnt a big problem and doing so for 4 years really starts to stick to you. Jamal Crawford was supposed to be a 6th man behind Allan Houston, however his return was thought to be sooner and more permanent. So he is filling in a shooting guards shoes as a point guard. So that is a big adjustment for him. I see him adjusting more to his role in the near future. I wasnt really patient with him than I remembered hes only 24. He has a huge upside and has shown more than enough flashes for me to even comment on. </div> Hey the kids both have talent, no doubt about it. Its a bit soon to be talking about Ariza like he's a sure thing IMO but whatever. Sweetney has potential too...but he is limited with his weight and height. Those are obsticles to overcome but it can be done. I see no problem with saying he has the potential to be a poor mans Brand. Saying he's gunna be more than that might be showing some of your bias maybe. Every Atlantic team has their youngens with potential, its just that the 4 other teams have more. Sure Ariza and Sweetney are nice, and Crawford's got some offensive skills....but i personally would take the potential of Dalembert, Korver and Iggy well before them. Same goes for Allen, Jefferson, West, and Perkins. As far has Toronto goes in comparison I think Bonner is a nice peice and Sow does have potential, but they're lacking compared to Ariza/Sweetney. But thats when i remember Chris Bosh, which more than makes up for it. New Jersey has alot of youngens, alot, and Kristic, Collins and Jefferson...thats a little bit of alright in my books. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> Me and many Knick fans trust Isiah with our draft. With the 43rd pick he selected a huge talent in Ariza so who knows what he can do with the 28-30th pick. Many good players have been taken late in drafts and some not even drafted! We also dont know if Isiah can package those picks and get something out of it too, so we cant judge that yet.</div> Its true, some good players can be found with the latter picks. But dont bank on it too much. Fact is the Knicks pics are worse than Bostons, New Jersey's and Toronto's by a fair margin, and they have less of them. They also have no second rounder this year. Draft picks can be traded, true, but teams that trade to acquire picks are usually offering bad contracts or veteran players getting on in age. Teams that are rebuilding are the ones tht want those pics the most, and they're not going to be too crazy about giving up young talent. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, with the Knicks getting 30 million dollars in expiring contracts, they can make a huge move. We know teams love cap space, and 30 million dollars can get you a lot! Those are very valuable pieces especially if they are packaged with some picks! Who knows? Thats huge for the future. </div> True they can be traded away for good players, but i dont think there has useful to the Knicks has you think. True Golden State got Baron for cap space and pics, but Baron with his contract and injury problems is not exactly a hot commodity in the league. It very well could backfire in their face. Look at the Raps who couldnt get anything for an actually good, high quality expiring contract in Donyell Marshall. Or the Sixers who traded away a 14 million dollar expiring contract and only got Rodney Rogers. hey anything can happen, judge the teams fairly and try to stay away from "ifs", which is basically what your entire objection contains. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> I also noticed that you are basing most of their success on their financial situation. FAs are not the only thing to build your team around and with NY and its benefits, a FA can come here as well. So, my take on their future is an B. I also noticed that you gave Toronto an A without giving any negativity in them. I do sense a little bias is bleeding through this thread. Also I think Babcock has some questionable decisions as the GM. Not saying they dont have a bright future, just think its not an A.</div> I didnt give any negetives because i dont think they have many. I mean every team has some, Rose's/Lammonds contract for example. But overall i think the outlook is pretty good. And by the looks of this thread alot of people feel the same way has i do. Your opinion is valuable and i except that you give them a B if thats what you think. My question for you is how do they compare to the other Atlantic teams futures? I'm most interested to here how they compare to the Raptors and Celtics. Bias is everywhere, you cant avoid a little bias. For example your post. But the important thing is to except there may be a little bias and be rational about the weaknesses of your team's future, and NY has its share of problems like any other team. I think, bias aside, its just a matter of NY having less of the following: 1) young talent (they have 3 but only 3 and one's a chucker that plays selfish basketball and no defense, until he proves otherwise) 2) picks (they have less and worse picks over the next few years than all the teams other than Philli (Philly still gets the nod though cause of the young talent they already have which seems to dwarf the other teams by comparison) 3) financial flexability (the other teams, just have more) Its my opinion, think of it what you will.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't agree with the C- rating, but the only players on contract in the next 4 years for the Knicks are Marbury and Jamal Crawford.</div> True but Kurt, Rose, Taylor, Williams (all PF's) are locked in big time for 3 years. And even if you're talking 4 years with Marb's and Jamal's contract being the only one's locked in...thats true, but they'll be making 28 million between them that year. In the original post i suggested 2-4 years has a time frame for judging...just cause the more distant you go the less likely for an accurate prediction, cause like i said, anything can happen. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> The rest of the teams in the Atlantic have their key players locked in longer. Of course a lot will happen in 4 years, but with all things being equal, not having players aboard in the next 4 years for the Knicks is both good and bad. New York is very alluring for players because it's a major city and the history of MSG. I would give the Knicks a C+ or B- at this point.</div> I'll agree with you and go so far has to say they have the best potential beyond 4 years. That of course though is has long has they dont do what they always do and start adding more expensive bandaids to the problem. If they rebuild completely like they should they could be very good in 4-6 years. But in that case they'll really stink it up until then. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> Depending on who they use their picks on and whether or not they can keep their current young talent will determine whether they are C+ or B-.</div> well thats true for everyteam. I just rate them worse than the other teams has far has draft picks go because, all things being equal, they should have less and lower quality picks.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2 were traded to the Raps in the Vince Carter deal</div> I think they still have 2 left. Their own pick, and they have the Clippers pick. 1) Boston - They have Allen, West, Banks, Jefferson who I think will be much better than a lot of people are likely predicting, and Kendrick Perkins. I think Al Jefferson will become a franchise type player. He can be a 20-10 guy or so, and he really strikes me as a guy that can be big. The Celtics also have Pierce in additon to those guys, and you can't forget Ricky Davis. They have a good core, good veterans, and are a fairly young team. - A+ 2) New Jersey - Kidd is older and has previous injury problems, but he's still a very very capable player. The Nets have the Clippers and their pick which will both likely be lottery, so with those they can get some very good players in the draft. I'm not sure if the Clippers pick is for this year or not. They also have Vince at 29 who still has years in him, and Jefferson is only 25, so they're set at the swingmen positons, and if they can use the draft to improve their interior and depth, they're a formidable opponent. They also have Nenad Kristic, and Plananic if he can improve, so they've got a fair amount of young players. They can really get a lot better by next season, and even look at being contenders. Also their cap situation is not bad at all, as they only have the big three making substantial amounts of money, so they aren't over the cap for next season - A 3) Philadelphia - They have Iguodala, Korver, Green, Salmons, and Dalmbert. They have some odd conracts, and will only be getting cap relief in 08-09 season when Webber comes off, but even then it might not be too much because they would've had to re-sign Dalmbert and Korver. Mashburn's contract will be taken care of by insurance, but that doesn't help their cap. They have many future pieces, and have a good future, but will have cap problems, and won't be making any FA acquisitions - B+ 4) Toronto - This is mainly based on Bosh. Jalen Rose is not young, he's an older player, but his production shouldn't drop too much as he doesn't rely much on athleticism. Rafer is 29, and MoPete is turning 28, so they still have good years in them, but outside of Bosh, our other young talents are big question marks. Araujo who I'm not a fan of, could maybe be a decent starting center, and Pape Sow is an athletic guy that could be a defensive type player, or could just be nothing. The Raptors don't have a bad cap situation at all, we're at $47 million next season, but in 06-07 we'll have space, and in 07-08 when the Raptors have to re-sign Bosh, their will be a lot of cap space. The Raps aren't a big draw on FA's though, so they aren't going to get any real big acquisitons. The draft picks will be very important for the Raptors future, the Raptors own pick which should be lottery, and Philly's which should be in 16-20 or so, so they're in a good situation. - B+ 5) New York - The Knicks have nice young players in Ariza and Sweetney. Ariza can be a good all-round player and really progress, and Sweetney can be a mediocre man's Brand, but I don't buy him being near as good as Brand. Sweetney doesn't have the athleticism, shot blocking ability, defensive ability, and though his offense is good, doesn't have the offensive skills of Brand. Sweetney can be a 16 points | 9 rebounds or so player down the line. The Knicks also have Jamal Crawford who is a good young SG, and Marbury himself is at 29. The Knicks have 2 lower picks, but their own pick will be the most important to them. They have cap problems, and won't likely be getting any major FA's because some good players might say they'll sign MLE to go to a team, but in the end it never happens. C+