Atlantic Team With The Brightest Future

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I think they still have 2 left. Their own pick, and they have the Clippers pick.

1) Boston - They have Allen, West, Banks, Jefferson who I think will be much better than a lot of people are likely predicting, and Kendrick Perkins. I think Al Jefferson will become a franchise type player. He can be a 20-10 guy or so, and he really strikes me as a guy that can be big. The Celtics also have Pierce in additon to those guys, and you can't forget Ricky Davis. They have a good core, good veterans, and are a fairly young team. - A+

2) New Jersey - Kidd is older and has previous injury problems, but he's still a very very capable player. The Nets have the Clippers and their pick which will both likely be lottery, so with those they can get some very good players in the draft. I'm not sure if the Clippers pick is for this year or not. They also have Vince at 29 who still has years in him, and Jefferson is only 25, so they're set at the swingmen positons, and if they can use the draft to improve their interior and depth, they're a formidable opponent. They also have Nenad Kristic, and Plananic if he can improve, so they've got a fair amount of young players. They can really get a lot better by next season, and even look at being contenders. Also their cap situation is not bad at all, as they only have the big three making substantial amounts of money, so they aren't over the cap for next season - A

3) Philadelphia - They have Iguodala, Korver, Green, Salmons, and Dalmbert. They have some odd conracts, and will only be getting cap relief in 08-09 season when Webber comes off, but even then it might not be too much because they would've had to re-sign Dalmbert and Korver. Mashburn's contract will be taken care of by insurance, but that doesn't help their cap. They have many future pieces, and have a good future, but will have cap problems, and won't be making any FA acquisitions - B+

4) Toronto - This is mainly based on Bosh. Jalen Rose is not young, he's an older player, but his production shouldn't drop too much as he doesn't rely much on athleticism. Rafer is 29, and MoPete is turning 28, so they still have good years in them, but outside of Bosh, our other young talents are big question marks. Araujo who I'm not a fan of, could maybe be a decent starting center, and Pape Sow is an athletic guy that could be a defensive type player, or could just be nothing. The Raptors don't have a bad cap situation at all, we're at $47 million next season, but in 06-07 we'll have space, and in 07-08 when the Raptors have to re-sign Bosh, their will be a lot of cap space. The Raps aren't a big draw on FA's though, so they aren't going to get any real big acquisitons. The draft picks will be very important for the Raptors future, the Raptors own pick which should be lottery, and Philly's which should be in 16-20 or so, so they're in a good situation. - B+


5) New York - The Knicks have nice young players in Ariza and Sweetney. Ariza can be a good all-round player and really progress, and Sweetney can be a mediocre man's Brand, but I don't buy him being near as good as Brand. Sweetney doesn't have the athleticism, shot blocking ability, defensive ability, and though his offense is good, doesn't have the offensive skills of Brand. Sweetney can be a 16 points | 9 rebounds or so player down the line. The Knicks also have Jamal Crawford who is a good young SG, and Marbury himself is at 29. The Knicks have 2 lower picks, but their own pick will be the most important to them. They have cap problems, and won't likely be getting any major FA's because some good players might say they'll sign MLE to go to a team, but in the end it never happens. C+</div>



Good points all around. My only problem is I'd put Toronto at least on par with New Jersey since we have a similiar cap situation, 1 more draft picks over the next 2 years, and a franchise very young guy in Bosh. New Jersey has RJ who is better at this point, but also a bit older and now with potential injury problems. Also the Raps big contracts end sooner than Kidd/Carter.
But to each his own.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I did, after all, let it be known that bias could come into it in voicing my history with the Knicks and my support of the Raptors. Pointing out something that I've already pointed out is abit silly.</div>
I didn?t really notice it. You just said you hate the NY philosophy while also pointing out Toronto is your favorite team. Glad to see your admitting your bias though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Hey the kids both have talent, no doubt about it. Its a bit soon to be talking about Ariza like he's a sure thing IMO but whatever. Sweetney has potential too...but he is limited with his weight and height. Those are obsticles to overcome but it can be done. I see no problem with saying he has the potential to be a poor mans Brand. Saying he's gunna be more than that might be showing some of your bias maybe. Every Atlantic team has their youngens with potential, its just that the 4 other teams have more. Sure Ariza and Sweetney are nice, and Crawford's got some offensive skills....but i personally would take the potential of Dalembert, Korver and Iggy well before them. Same goes for Allen, Jefferson, West, and Perkins. As far has Toronto goes in comparison I think Bonner is a nice peice and Sow does have potential, but they're lacking compared to Ariza/Sweetney. But thats when i remember Chris Bosh, which more than makes up for it. New Jersey has alot of youngens, alot, and Kristic, Collins and Jefferson...thats a little bit of alright in my books.</div>
No I?ve seen Sweetney and Ariza on too many occasions to know he has potential to be great players potential All-Stars and superstars. I think depending on Ariza and Sweetney is a sure thing. So, you can judge a player based on their second season? I don?t see how it?s much different from their first season. Slumps are a part of seasons and although Caron Butler put up good stats on a struggling team, he picked up where he left off. How is Bosh a definite superstar as opposed to Sweetney who will have identical or even greater numbers had he been playing the same time? Anytime Sweetney plays he?s effective and Toronto doesn?t have a current player averaging a double-double (points and rebounds) who plays 36 minutes a game so Bosh has much more freedom. You mention Sweetney?s weight, but I don?t even think that?s a big problem. First of all, he can easily lose it with hard work and exercise, and a good part of his game is using his body to score in the low post which makes up for his lack of height. He also is pretty quick for someone with his size and usually shocks his opponents with his speed. He also has some very good post moves and once he gets a jumpshot, he?ll be that much closer to a complete offensive player. His rebounding ability is simply superb and take into consideration that he plays players usually bigger than him. So basically he plays bigger than what he is. I don?t know how you think Bosh has a better future than Ariza and Sweetney combined.

Ariza is a great player and when given time he always prodeuces. He can rebound pass well and plays great defense. Once he gets to the weight room and gets a jumpshot, he will be pretty good. It?s definitely not out of the question to say he can average 5 rebounds and 5 assists per game. Ariza is also just like Sweetney and has great work ethic. Him and Sweetney are known for being the last ones to leave practice. He really has a bright future and wants to get better. He definitely is a lottery talent that was stolen as the 43rd pick.

Jamal Crawford is a great player who is clutch as well. Making the adjustment from the Bulls to the Knicks has been harder than expected, but he is still learning. Crawford is a PG playing the SG and sometimes is isolation crossover and dribbling moves are the only thing he can do playing against mostly stronger and some taller guards. He isn?t as selfish as you say he is. He is a very good passer and averages about 4 assists per game. He is also trying to fill in the shooting role Allan Houston did. He is struggling because Houston was an established master at the jumpshot. I mean he shoots 36% from behind the arc which is decent. The defense has been improving, but more will come with time. This guys future is extremely bright, but with time he will show more.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Its true, some good players can be found with the latter picks. But dont bank on it too much. Fact is the Knicks pics are worse than Bostons, New Jersey's and Toronto's by a fair margin, and they have less of them. They also have no second rounder this year. Draft picks can be traded, true, but teams that trade to acquire picks are usually offering bad contracts or veteran players getting on in age. Teams that are rebuilding are the ones tht want those pics the most, and they're not going to be too crazy about giving up young talent.</div>
Well assuming the Knicks don?t make the playoffs, they will have a lottery pick and that Spurs pick makes up for their lost second rounder. If we package our picks the other team is getting young talent and they can also get 30 million dollars in expiring contracts from us which is huge in getting a good player that can put us over the map. The year after that Houston and Rose?s contract are up which will also provide even more trade bait and an established veteran for another I believe 30 million in expiring contracts is very possible. Those two potential moves can put us over the map with some trades or or at the very least we can have 60 million dollars expire in our laps which will clear up a lot of our problems.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">True they can be traded away for good players, but i dont think there has useful to the Knicks has you think. True Golden State got Baron for cap space and pics, but Baron with his contract and injury problems is not exactly a hot commodity in the league. It very well could backfire in their face. Look at the Raps who couldnt get anything for an actually good, high quality expiring contract in Donyell Marshall. Or the Sixers who traded away a 14 million dollar expiring contract and only got Rodney Rogers. hey anything can happen, judge the teams fairly and try to stay away from "ifs", which is basically what your entire objection contains.</div>
Well I think they can get a legit player. I mean they got Marbury who is legit through expiring contracts. Also now they have 30 million that is more than twice as better than 14 million. Marshall is different. He is only 5 million dollars in cap space which isn?t really too impressive. Also after Houston and Rose expire, we can get some other legit player if that specific year doesn?t work out.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I didnt give any negetives because i dont think they have many. I mean every team has some, Rose's/Lammonds contract for example. But overall i think the outlook is pretty good. And by the looks of this thread alot of people feel the same way has i do. Your opinion is valuable and i except that you give them a B if thats what you think. My question for you is how do they compare to the other Atlantic teams futures? I'm most interested to here how they compare to the Raptors and Celtics.</div>
Well even if you thought there was a little bit, you gave none whatsoever. A majority of the people who replied in this thread are Raptor fans too! I accept your opinion too, I just think the grades were a little OD. This is what I give everyone in the Atlantic:
New York: B-
New Jersey: B
Boston: A-
Philadelphia: B
Toronto: B

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Bias is everywhere, you cant avoid a little bias. For example your post. But the important thing is to except there may be a little bias and be rational about the weaknesses of your team's future, and NY has its share of problems like any other team. I think, bias aside, its just a matter of NY having less of the following:

1) young talent (they have 3 but only 3 and one's a chucker that plays selfish basketball and no defense, until he proves otherwise)
2) picks (they have less and worse picks over the next few years than all the teams other than Philli (Philly still gets the nod though cause of the young talent they already have which seems to dwarf the other teams by comparison)
3) financial flexability (the other teams, just have more)


Its my opinion, think of it what you will.</div>
1) Well, JC has his problems just like everyone else I wouldn?t consider him selfish though. Once he takes smarter shots, he?ll be okay and the Knicks also have Butler too.

2)They have their regular picks and an additional low in S.A. The Sixers have Korver and Iggy and Green which doesn?t outplay them considerably if any at all.

3)But, the other teams don?t get huge cash bonuses for signing in NY or aren?t as attractive because of the city itself and the history it has.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn?t really notice it. You just said you hate the NY philosophy while also pointing out Toronto is your favorite team. Glad to see your admitting your bias though. </div>

everyone has bias i can admit mine. Yours shows too, but i wont hold it against you.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
No I?ve seen Sweetney and Ariza on too many occasions to know he has potential to be great players potential All-Stars and superstars. I think depending on Ariza and Sweetney is a sure thing. So, you can judge a player based on their second season? I don?t see how it?s much different from their first season. Slumps are a part of seasons and although Caron Butler put up good stats on a struggling team, he picked up where he left off. </div>


I think its better to judge a player on their second season than their first...sure its not always fool proof but usually the you can see if a player is developing his game and if he can sustain his abilities. Alot of players play better when their on the ball. 10 day contract guys, expiring contract guys and rookies...they tend to play better. Personally i think the 2nd and 3rd seasons are the ones to look at.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
How is Bosh a definite superstar as opposed to Sweetney who will have identical or even greater numbers had he been playing the same time? Anytime Sweetney plays he?s effective and Toronto doesn?t have a current player averaging a double-double (points and rebounds) who plays 36 minutes a game so Bosh has much more freedom. </div>

Let me start by saying there's more to being a good player than raw stats. Let me also say that Bosh puts up his numbers with teams focusing on him. He gets alot more attention than Sweetney based on his reputation and his importance on the court. Bosh is better than Sweetney, i dont think thats in question is it?
Another point i'd like to make on this issue before i deliver my final statement is that Bosh has all the tools that Sweetney doesnt. His height makes him a much better shot blocker, his quickness makes him much more valuable in the open court has well has defending the quick PF's that dominate this league. His range is something Sweetney wishes he had, and his ability to handle the ball is superb. Sweetney's a good player and he can beat Bosh in the low post, but has far has i'm concerned thats the only thing he beats him in. That makes him better than Sweetney, numbers aside.
Let me finish by saying that Bosh does what he does at the age of 20, while Sweetney is 22 with 2 extra years of college ball.

I think that answers your questions.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
You mention Sweetney?s weight, but I don?t even think that?s a big problem. First of all, he can easily lose it with hard work and exercise, and a good part of his game is using his body to score in the low post which makes up for his lack of height. He also is pretty quick for someone with his size and usually shocks his opponents with his speed. He also has some very good post moves and once he gets a jumpshot, he?ll be that much closer to a complete offensive player. His rebounding ability is simply superb and take into consideration that he plays players usually bigger than him. So basically he plays bigger than what he is. </div>

His weight isnt necessarily a problem, though it could become one. Many players have had their careers harmed or ended outright by being overweight. He could play 10 years and play well at increasing levels of skill, or he could balloon up even more like Oliver Miller or Shawn Kemp. Doesnt means its going to happen, but it would be better for his potential if he changed that mass into muscle. I think you have to factor it into his potential. Its much easier for a player to put on weight than take it off, and i have no doubt in my mind his game is weakened by his body fat. He is a less athletic, less skilled Elton Brand. But Elton Brand is a great player...to be a poor mans Elton Brand is no insult, and i think its more reasonable at this point than saying he'll be has good or better.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
I don?t know how you think Bosh has a better future than Ariza and Sweetney combined. </div>

Well by using your method of arguing i could say that Bonner's numbers are has good has Ariza's if not better. So its sort of Bonner = Ariza + Bosh>Sweetney

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Ariza is a great player and when given time he always prodeuces. He can rebound pass well and plays great defense. Once he gets to the weight room and gets a jumpshot, he will be pretty good. It?s definitely not out of the question to say he can average 5 rebounds and 5 assists per game. Ariza is also just like Sweetney and has great work ethic. Him and Sweetney are known for being the last ones to leave practice. He really has a bright future and wants to get better. He definitely is a lottery talent that was stolen as the 43rd pick. </div>

That may be true but fact is he doesnt have a jump shot and he is a tooth pick right now, which doesnt mean he's garbage and never will have those things. It only means that you cant say a player base his "great potential" on your confidence that 100% he will get stronger and get a jump shot. Its not that easy, and those things need to be factored into his potential because hi doing that is not gaurenteed. Right now he's a decent player, and he's young so he does have alot of potential, but its too early to gaurentee this kid is going to be something. What if he doesnt get that jump shot?


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Jamal Crawford is a great player who is clutch as well. Making the adjustment from the Bulls to the Knicks has been harder than expected, but he is still learning. Crawford is a PG playing the SG and sometimes is isolation crossover and dribbling moves are the only thing he can do playing against mostly stronger and some taller guards. He isn?t as selfish as you say he is. He is a very good passer and averages about 4 assists per game. He is also trying to fill in the shooting role Allan Houston did. He is struggling because Houston was an established master at the jumpshot. I mean he shoots 36% from behind the arc which is decent. The defense has been improving, but more will come with time. This guys future is extremely bright, but with time he will show more. </div>

I'm interested to know why you think the adjustment from the Bulls to the Knicks is so hard? In both situations his role was a chucker, both teams played next to no defence (chicago has since improved) and both teams were playing eastern confernce style basketball. I'm sure you'll throw the "its hard to play in NY" comment out there, and i acknowledge it. But at the same time, i dont think Chicago is that far off, being one of the 3 major market teams and being in the post-jordan era where the fans were used to being a great team.
That said Crawford indeed has talent, but his attitude had been questionable for years now. His defence might be improving, but i certainly havent seen it, he's still a sub par defender partly due to his size making it difficult for him to gaurd the very common tall, strong 2 gaurd. His 3 shot is good, but he's under 40% from the field and he's taking 23 shots per game! No question he has talent, but no question he's been knocked for being a selfish player that gives up on defence.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well assuming the Knicks don?t make the playoffs, they will have a lottery pick and that Spurs pick makes up for their lost second rounder. If we package our picks the other team is getting young talent and they can also get 30 million dollars in expiring contracts from us which is huge in getting a good player that can put us over the map. The year after that Houston and Rose?s contract are up which will also provide even more trade bait and an established veteran for another I believe 30 million in expiring contracts is very possible. Those two potential moves can put us over the map with some trades or or at the very least we can have 60 million dollars expire in our laps which will clear up a lot of our problems. </div>


Certainly, but the Knicks do have less of and lower quality picks than the other teams in the Atlantic. The expiring contracts help but they dont necessarily mean you'll get anyone special in return. Its in the Knicks best interest to let those contracts expire and go on the FA market 4 years from now with a bang. They could attract any FA by paying equal or even slightly less than all the other nba teams(other than maybe LA and the elite teams).
They could be very good in 5 years...but i was thinking more along the line of 2-4 years. Marshall is different, he's an acutally good player that could produce for a contending team and have alot of teams want to resign him.
People will want expiring contracts, though usually those teams will only be willing to give up their old, struggling, over paid players, and thats not what NY needs.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well even if you thought there was a little bit, you gave none whatsoever. A majority of the people who replied in this thread are Raptor fans too! I accept your opinion too, I just think the grades were a little OD. This is what I give everyone in the Atlantic:
New York: B-
New Jersey: B
Boston: A-
Philadelphia: B
Toronto: B
</div>


So Toronto's only slightly better than NY even with:
*Rose, Murrays, Aaron Williams, and Montross' contracts (31 million) expiring in the same time period has the Knicks big contracts are expiring
*more and better picks by far
*One of the top 5 young(first year players and sophs) talents in the league, the top big man prospect.

Hey thats your opinion, though i still think Toronto edges NY out by a full letter grade. Just my opinion though.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
1) Well, JC has his problems just like everyone else I wouldn?t consider him selfish though. Once he takes smarter shots, he?ll be okay and the Knicks also have Butler too. </div>

Everyone else would consider him selfish. A team with that many offensive weapons and he's shooting 23 shots a game with his 39% from the field. Bulter who...oh ya...the CBA player thats never played a NBA game in his life. Please dont try and factor him in just yet.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
2)They have their regular picks and an additional low in S.A. The Sixers have Korver and Iggy and Green which doesn?t outplay them considerably if any at all. </div>

NY will only have 1 of their first rounders over the next two years. You'll keep it this year since its lottery protected, but i'm pretty sure its unprotected next year..which means you'll loose it no matter what. SA's pick is basically a second rounder. Could help, but dont bank to heavily on it.


3)But, the other teams don?t get huge cash bonuses for signing in NY or aren?t as attractive because of the city itself and the history it has.[/QUOTE]

mabye, but like i said before, endorsement perks of playing in a big city only help a player if they have endorsments, and usually only of the major kind. So it goes back to if a player is going to risk playing for MLE just to get more endorsements. Alot of players have said they would, but like og15 said, they never do.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Good points all around. My only problem is I'd put Toronto at least on par with New Jersey since we have a similiar cap situation, 1 more draft picks over the next 2 years, and a franchise very young guy in Bosh. New Jersey has RJ who is better at this point, but also a bit older and now with potential injury problems. Also the Raps big contracts end sooner than Kidd/Carter.
But to each his own</div>
They have a better core than we did with Kidd - Carter - Jefferson in comparison to Alston - Rose - Bosh. Also they have higher picks. If they have their own pick and the Clippers pick, both will be lottery, while we'll have our lottery pick, but a non-lottery pick from Philly, and likely a non-lottery pick from Denver.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">They have a better core than we did with Kidd - Carter - Jefferson in comparison to Alston - Rose - Bosh. Also they have higher picks. If they have their own pick and the Clippers pick, both will be lottery, while we'll have our lottery pick, but a non-lottery pick from Philly, and likely a non-lottery pick from Denver.</div>


True enough. I guess the only advantage the Raps have is contract flexability and better big men(which doesnt say much since neither teams are known for there low post game).
New Jersey probably deserves a better rating then i gave them. Its just the injury trouble and enormous contracts they are giving those players made me downgrade them abit.

 

Celtics have the brightest future of all the teams in the Atlantic. They got a young and athletic team to build around in West, Jefferson, and Tony Allen. Ainge's draft this summer was pretty good.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 02civic:</div><div class="quote_post">everyone has bias i can admit mine. Yours shows too, but i wont hold it against you.</div>
Nope, I know I?ve said some bias before, but sorry, I don?t see it in this thread.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think its better to judge a player on their second season than their first...sure its not always fool proof but usually the you can see if a player is developing his game and if he can sustain his abilities. Alot of players play better when their on the ball. 10 day contract guys, expiring contract guys and rookies...they tend to play better. Personally i think the 2nd and 3rd seasons are the ones to look at.</div>
Well, Sweetney is in his second year and is continuing has showed great improvement from last year. Sweetney is playing exceptionally well as a sophomore?he just needs to get the burn Wilkens wasn?t giving him. Also you mentioned the 3rd year. Bosh isn?t done with his 2nd year yet and you already agree he is a lock for superstar. How do you know that is play will die down like Caron Butler?




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let me start by saying there's more to being a good player than raw stats. Let me also say that Bosh puts up his numbers with teams focusing on him. He gets alot more attention than Sweetney based on his reputation and his importance on the court. Bosh is better than Sweetney, i dont think thats in question is it?
Another point i'd like to make on this issue before i deliver my final statement is that Bosh has all the tools that Sweetney doesnt. His height makes him a much better shot blocker, his quickness makes him much more valuable in the open court has well has defending the quick PF's that dominate this league. His range is something Sweetney wishes he had, and his ability to handle the ball is superb. Sweetney's a good player and he can beat Bosh in the low post, but has far has i'm concerned thats the only thing he beats him in. That makes him better than Sweetney, numbers aside.
Let me finish by saying that Bosh does what he does at the age of 20, while Sweetney is 22 with 2 extra years of college ball

I think that answers your questions.</div>
I know there?s more to it than stats, I just know that you like to pull out them a lot so, I saved you some of the trouble. Also, just pointing out statistically Sweetney could be just as good as Bosh.
Well those are some of Bosh?s positives. He has some height yes, he?s quick that?s true. But, he is to use your word?a tooth pick and he plays PF? He can easily get abused in the post. He isn?t as good of a rebounder as Sweetney either for that matter. Sweetney also has better moves in the post in my opinion. Again, range and shooting can come with practice. Give him a summer he will be able to be a pretty decent jumpshooter.





<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His weight isnt necessarily a problem, though it could become one. Many players have had their careers harmed or ended outright by being overweight. He could play 10 years and play well at increasing levels of skill, or he could balloon up even more like Oliver Miller or Shawn Kemp. Doesnt means its going to happen, but it would be better for his potential if he changed that mass into muscle. I think you have to factor it into his potential. Its much easier for a player to put on weight than take it off, and i have no doubt in my mind his game is weakened by his body fat. He is a less athletic, less skilled Elton Brand. But Elton Brand is a great player...to be a poor mans Elton Brand is no insult, and i think its more reasonable at this point than saying he'll be has good or better.</div>
Sweetney isn?t really overweight at all. Most of his game is based on his power and size which is a good weapon for him especially considering his size. Most of his mass is muscle. Sweetney isn?t fat or chubby. He is built like that which again is good for his opponents who usually can?t match his bulk. Obviously he is less skilled than Elton Brand who is playing in the league in his 6th year. The only thing I see different from him is his athleticism. I think he will use his post game more while Brand uses his athleticism. I still don?t think he?ll be a poor man?s Elton Brand I think he?ll be just as good however he will take advantage more of his moves.

What to me what you said about Sweetney?s potential weight ?problem? I see it the same way about Bosh gaining weight. He needs some more muscle and what if it becomes a problem? Btw, who do you compare Bosh to? I just want an idea of who he can end up like in the future.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well by using your method of arguing i could say that Bonner's numbers are has good has Ariza's if not better. So its sort of Bonner = Ariza + Bosh>Sweetney</div>
That?s not my method and Ariza = Bonner???? I beg to differ! I see Ariza being much better than Bonner. And also your method is flawed because you don?t mention how much better they are.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That may be true but fact is he doesnt have a jump shot and he is a tooth pick right now, which doesnt mean he's garbage and never will have those things. It only means that you cant say a player base his "great potential" on your confidence that 100% he will get stronger and get a jump shot. Its not that easy, and those things need to be factored into his potential because hi doing that is not gaurenteed. Right now he's a decent player, and he's young so he does have alot of potential, but its too early to gaurentee this kid is going to be something. What if he doesnt get that jump shot?</div>
So why isn?t too early to judge Bosh? Bosh is a tooth pick in the league as well. Why can?t he get a decent jumpshot? Since his days in UCLA he barely ever shot jumpers because most of his points came from layups and the way he shot free throws were horrible at a college level. He has improved that shot and always practices shooting and is frequently the last one leaving practice. Now that he has many more summers and practices coming up, I am pretty sure he can get a jumpshot. Also, Houston can teach Ariza a thing or two about shooting. He is one of the best shooters and I think even though he might have lost it a bit, the fundamentals and things like that are good for him to know and can be very helpful. A majority of rookies in the NBA do not have good jumpers and lack strength. Eventually they develop that I don?t see how it is so different from Ariza.




<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm interested to know why you think the adjustment from the Bulls to the Knicks is so hard? In both situations his role was a chucker, both teams played next to no defence (chicago has since improved) and both teams were playing eastern confernce style basketball. I'm sure you'll throw the "its hard to play in NY" comment out there, and i acknowledge it. But at the same time, i dont think Chicago is that far off, being one of the 3 major market teams and being in the post-jordan era where the fans were used to being a great team.
That said Crawford indeed has talent, but his attitude had been questionable for years now. His defence might be improving, but i certainly havent seen it, he's still a sub par defender partly due to his size making it difficult for him to gaurd the very common tall, strong 2 gaurd. His 3 shot is good, but he's under 40% from the field and he's taking 23 shots per game! No question he has talent, but no question he's been knocked for being a selfish player that gives up on defence.</div>
Well the Bulls had some of the NBA?s worse records in that span of time. So Crawford chucking up shots is different on a team that had close to no hope in making the playoffs for a long time is different from a team trying to make a run in the east. His role was not the same both teams were in different situations (they have developing rookies and two lottery picks of course they?ll do better!) Actually I was never thinking about that, but since you threw it out there, it is harder playing in NY. The post Jordan era is hard, however with the fans being used to it for 6 years, it isn?t as difficult.
His attitude? Jamal Crawford never had an attitude problem at all and is a very nice guy. He always tells the coaching staff, anytime I take a bad shot or make a bad decision etc., hound me on it. His attitude is not questionable at all and I don?t know how you got that impression. Crawford has made more of an effort on defense and I wouldn?t expect you to see them because there aren?t many nationally televised Knick games, but he has been more hyped up on the defensive end and has been contesting more shots and is playing smarter defense. Well, Crawford doesn?t average 23 shot attempts per game. I don?t know where you got that statistic from. His official stats are from NBA.com. Crawford really averages almost 7 less shot attempts than you said he did. If you get a calculator and divide his 729 shot attempts by his 45 games played this season, you?ll see it says 16.2 instead of 23. Crawford is not selfish and I think you?re mixing up his FG% with it. He takes ill-advised shots, but he is an excellent passer and is really a PG. Now with Marbury playing the 1, he is forced to play the two at his 190. When Herb Williams plays him at PG, it has proven successful for the Knicks. Once he gets a couple of pounds this summer, it shouldn?t be a huge concern. His defense has been improving and it is only a matter of time when he can become a good defender.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Certainly, but the Knicks do have less of and lower quality picks than the other teams in the Atlantic. The expiring contracts help but they dont necessarily mean you'll get anyone special in return. Its in the Knicks best interest to let those contracts expire and go on the FA market 4 years from now with a bang. They could attract any FA by paying equal or even slightly less than all the other nba teams(other than maybe LA and the elite teams).
They could be very good in 5 years...but i was thinking more along the line of 2-4 years. Marshall is different, he's an acutally good player that could produce for a contending team and have alot of teams want to resign him.
People will want expiring contracts, though usually those teams will only be willing to give up their old, struggling, over paid players, and thats not what NY needs.</div>
The Knicks have less picks that?s it. They have the market card and expiring contracts to work out a potential sign and trade deal, or simply trade for a good player. You can get a pretty good player for 30 million dollars. My boy Donyell can help a contending team or any team for that matter, but there?s a difference when he?s an expiring contract with 5 million and six times that amount. Also from what I?ve heard, many teams were interested, however Babcock was being unreasonable.





<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So Toronto's only slightly better than NY even with:
*Rose, Murrays, Aaron Williams, and Montross' contracts (31 million) expiring in the same time period has the Knicks big contracts are expiring
*more and better picks by far
*One of the top 5 young(first year players and sophs) talents in the league, the top big man prospect.

Hey thats your opinion, though i still think Toronto edges NY out by a full letter grade. Just my opinion though.</div>
*Yeah, but the Knicks also have another 30 million coming off the cap next year too.
*They have some good picks, but doesn?t that depend on how the Nuggets do? They seem to be on the verge of doing pretty well especially with a developing Martin and Anthony.
*Well, they have Bosh. That?s the only big time prospect that I see. Many teams including the Knicks can match that.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Everyone else would consider him selfish. A team with that many offensive weapons and he's shooting 23 shots a game with his 39% from the field. Bulter who...oh ya...the CBA player thats never played a NBA game in his life. Please dont try and factor him in just yet.</div>
Well, not everyone else watches the Knicks. You?re the only person who said that and you can?t speak for everyone else, just yourself. Again, nearly 7 attempts than what you say and shoots 39% from the field while shooting a pretty decent 36% from 3. He will get better is very talented. You can also throw his 4 assists a game in there too, or his 1.3 steals to his outrageously atrocious defense. You said that they have 3 and 3 only have 3 young players. Butler put up good numbers in the CBA especially for someone young like him. He can become a decent player.



<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">NY will only have 1 of their first rounders over the next two years. You'll keep it this year since its lottery protected, but i'm pretty sure its unprotected next year..which means you'll loose it no matter what. SA's pick is basically a second rounder. Could help, but dont bank to heavily on it.</div>
Who has our pick???


<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">mabye, but like i said before, endorsement perks of playing in a big city only help a player if they have endorsments, and usually only of the major kind. So it goes back to if a player is going to risk playing for MLE just to get more endorsements. Alot of players have said they would, but like og15 said, they never do.</div>
What?s saying they won?t? If they have endorsements, chances are money isn?t a huge issue for them at all and a year with the MLE to test out NY can?t really hurt.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you even watch Ariza play while he was at UCLA?</div>
Yes, I did. Btw, why do you ask?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">How can you say he didn't shoot the ball then? He was second on the team in 3pt attempts, and made his mark in his recruiting class with his ability to shoot from behind the arc. He averaged 3 attempts alone per game from behind the arc. He loved shooting the mid range shot in college. His mid range effectiveness is what allowed him to attack the rim in college and forced his defender to actually play him close on the perimeter.</div>
The games I saw him he was mostly getting dunks and layups. Not too many UCLA games on in NY obviously, but the ones I saw he didn't look to shoot and barely shot the midrange jumper.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Nope, I know I?ve said some bias before, but sorry, I don?t see it in this thread. </div>


Bias is in everything we all say. No matter how hard we try to be fair, favoritism comes out. If you werent has big a Knicks fan you might see the situation a bit differently, much the same way I would view the Raps differently. Trying to be objective is very hard, but very important.




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well, Sweetney is in his second year and is continuing has showed great improvement from last year. Sweetney is playing exceptionally well as a sophomore?he just needs to get the burn Wilkens wasn?t giving him. Also you mentioned the 3rd year. Bosh isn?t done with his 2nd year yet and you already agree he is a lock for superstar. How do you know that is play will die down like Caron Butler? </div>

Sweetney shows great promise, but you speak of him like he's a gaurenteed 20-10 guy. There's no doubt in your mind he's going to blow up and be one of the best PF's in the league. In my opinion that might be alittle bit too much, but you never know it could happen. Bosh...maybe bosh wont blow up, but I think its a likely possibility. I see Bosh being a 22-10-4-3(blocks) kind of guy. Bosh has improved from his first to second season while playing large minutes in both season, unlike Sweetney, and being the primary focus of the team, unlike Sweetney. I think its just easier to judge his potential based on those facts. He could die down like Butler, but Butler did his fading in his second season, Bosh has grown rather than die down.





<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
I know there?s more to it than stats, I just know that you like to pull out them a lot so, I saved you some of the trouble. Also, just pointing out statistically Sweetney could be just as good as Bosh.
Well those are some of Bosh?s positives. He has some height yes, he?s quick that?s true. But, he is to use your word?a tooth pick and he plays PF? He can easily get abused in the post. He isn?t as good of a rebounder as Sweetney either for that matter. Sweetney also has better moves in the post in my opinion. Again, range and shooting can come with practice. Give him a summer he will be able to be a pretty decent jumpshooter.
What to me what you said about Sweetney?s potential weight ?problem? I see it the same way about Bosh gaining weight. He needs some more muscle and what if it becomes a problem? Btw, who do you compare Bosh to? I just want an idea of who he can end up like in the future.</div>


No stats dont work that way, you cant just times or divide numbers based on minutes and have an accurate reprisentation of their abilities, value, skill or potential. There are too many variables in between like the teams style of play, the complimentary players around them, there role on the team, the pressure on them to produce and the pressure on them from opposing teams.

No question Bosh could benefit from gaining some muscle but its not necessary for him really. To answer your question i view Bosh with Garnett potential. They have similiar styles, physical attributes and abilities, and similiar skill levels(Garnett at Bosh's age). The big difference i see is that Bosh needs to play with fire consistently like Garnett, and he needs to force his will on games more rather than play other peoples games. Sweetney is good, and he has some decent post moves, but he's no where near has good has Brand was at his age, and he's behind the 8-ball physically being shorter and less athletic. I dont see him being anything more than a poor-mans Brand, but like i've said...thats still pretty damn good for a player. And its just my opinion, if you dont agree thats fine. You dont have to convince me either, we'll find out in time who's right.






<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Sweetney isn?t really overweight at all. Most of his game is based on his power and size which is a good weapon for him especially considering his size. Most of his mass is muscle. Sweetney isn?t fat or chubby. He is built like that which again is good for his opponents who usually can?t match his bulk. Obviously he is less skilled than Elton Brand who is playing in the league in his 6th year. The only thing I see different from him is his athleticism. I think he will use his post game more while Brand uses his athleticism. I still don?t think he?ll be a poor man?s Elton Brand I think he?ll be just as good however he will take advantage more of his moves. </div>




Sweetney could develop a nice little jumper...and that would benefit him alot. But its a project and there's no telling if he'll be able to do it consistently. Learning how to shoot is not easy...just ask Shaq how easy it was for him to learn how to shoot free throws. He might never get a jumper, but Bosh doesnt need to learn new skills, only how to use them more efficiently.





<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
That?s not my method and Ariza = Bonner???? I beg to differ! I see Ariza being much better than Bonner. And also your method is flawed because you don?t mention how much better they are.</div>


Sure its your method. You doubled Sweetney's minutes to see his numbers and then compared those numbers with Bosh's...resulting in you saying that Sweetney put up just has good of numbers has Bosh does if he played the same minutes. That was your attempt at making Sweetney look like has good has Bosh. Well i dont even need to double the minutes. Bonner puts up better numbers in ppg, rpg, fg%, 3p% and free throw %, and he does it in 4% less playing time. So you see, its not a matter of Bosh outweighing the potential of both Ariza and Sweetney. My man the Red Rocket can hold his own vs Ariza and Bosh is clear cut better than Sweetney. Why does it matter how much better, the fact is we're talking about potential, and by saying Bosh>Sweetney, I'm saying Bosh has more. I dont think you could argue that Sweetney is has good has Bosh is at this very moment. And if you factor in that Bosh is younger with less expierence and more pressure and yet he still gets it done.....its over.
But I'm gunna stop this cause it doesnt matter. The thread was only to assess the potential for the future of the Atlantic division, not to compare players that shouldnt be compared.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well the Bulls had some of the NBA?s worse records in that span of time. </div>

Dont look now....but the Knicks have one "of the NBA?s worse records", i dont think you should use that fact to back up the statement that its uber-difficult to make the switch from Chicago to New York. Both teams /were/are less than good, and on both teams he shot the ball more than anybody else, with a horrible %. And on both teams he was thought of has a defensive sieve. If you say he's getting better on D, than thats really good for him. But the fact is he's 25 and is still a very poor defender, in part because of his size, but also due to his lack of defensive effort.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
So Crawford chucking up shots is different on a team that had close to no hope in making the playoffs for a long time is different from a team trying to make a run in the east. </div>

Actually if anything, wouldnt you say its worse to be chucking on a team thats "trying to make a run in the east"?! And besides, NY has the 8th worst record in the league and despite the fact that they technically, statisically, have a shot at the playoffs still it doesnt make them a good team, and its not very likely anyways.




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Well, Crawford doesn?t average 23 shot attempts per game. </div>

You are right about this, i screwed up and added his 3 point shots. Either way 16.3 shots per game is alot for someone shooting 39% from the field.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Once he gets a couple of pounds this summer, it shouldn?t be a huge concern.
</div>

He's had 5 offseasons already to put on weight, why are you so sure he's going to do it this year?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
His defense has been improving and it is only a matter of time when he can become a good defender.</div>

Being 25 and seeing his defensive play, all i can think of is how he'll be the best 42.5 year old defender the NBA has ever seen.



<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
The Knicks have less picks that?s it. </div>

And less quality picks. And they dont have a franchise player like Toronto does in Bosh.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
They have the market card and expiring contracts to work out a potential sign and trade deal, or simply trade for a good player. </div>


The market card is great but when i rated NY's potential in the next 4 years I outweighed it with the fact they are now 70 million OVER the cap, and it doesnt appear has though there trying to lighten it at all.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">You can get a pretty good player for 30 million dollars. </div>


The sixers got Rodney Rogers and a permenently injured probably retiring Mashburn for G. Rob's 15 million.




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
*They have some good picks, but doesn?t that depend on how the Nuggets do? They seem to be on the verge of doing pretty well especially with a developing Martin and Anthony.</div>


Even if Denver's pick turns out to be a 30th toronto will still pick better because Phili's pick>Spurs pick.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
*Well, they have Bosh. That?s the only big time prospect that I see. Many teams including the Knicks can match that. </div>


Many teams have has good a prospect has Bosh? Sure, there's Wade, Amare, LBJ, carmelo perhaps, umm......maybe Gordon if he keeps it up....Deng looks solid....that's all i got. Other teams could make arguements, like Charlotte, Orlando, Chicago again for Hinrich(man chicago's good), but NY can NOT "match that". These are the comments that infuriate me.... I'm sorry but Sweetney and Ariza do not equal Bosh even if you dont factor in Bonner, who's a pretty solid player himself.



<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> He will get better is very talented. You can also throw his 4 assists a game in there too, or his 1.3 steals to his outrageously atrocious defense </div>


Ok fine, thats ok... you can have your opinion. If you consider him a good or even average defensive player, thats your choice. Just remember i read alot of the post game analysis of the Knicks and that i'm choosing not to cut and paste some quote's just because i want you to have your opinion and i dont want to argue mine.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">You said that they have 3 and 3 only have 3 young players. Butler put up good numbers in the CBA especially for someone young like him. He can become a decent player. </div>


Has he played an NBA game yet? You're right though, the Raps should sign Diop, Wagner and Moiso...there all young players and put up some good numbers in highschool/college...we'd be loaded with potential.
Seriously come on man...he's yet to play a game. Dont bring him into the same conversation has a quote by you saying you're not being biased in favour of your team. He can become a decent player...hell i can become a decent player...but the fact is you have NO evidence what so ever to prove that Sweetney, Ariza or Butler can/will make that step and yet you talk about them like they're sure things.



<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
Who has our pick??? </div>




Remember? You guys were reminded that you keep your pick this year if its in the lottary....you guys got excited and started a thread on it and some prospects. You do know that by "keeping" it, it only means it delay's the pick going to the other team...




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">
What?s saying they won?t? If they have endorsements, chances are money isn?t a huge issue for them at all and a year with the MLE to test out NY can?t really hurt.</div>


History says they wont. How many have? Did Dampier?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">For those defending the Raptors' chances. How will the Raptors compete for free agents when there is a stigma around the NBA of players not wanting to live in Canada? Some complain about the cold weather, some complain Canada is a hockey town, and all of them complain about the higher taxes in Canada. I'm always impressed by the passion of Canadian fans, but besides the fan support, what can Canada and the city of Toronto do to attract the big name free agents and keep their stars on the team?

You cannot under estimate the annemities New York City has to offer an NBA Player. It is the mecca for major cities. They have ten of EVERY thing a player and their family would want. Entertainment, shopping, clubs, great food, publicity, basically everything a person wants in terms of fortune and fame. Then you have the history of Madison Square Garden to sell players, and the Knicks Owner has no qualms about breaking the bank and paying the luxury tax. Cities like New York or Los Angeles are always on a players short list of teams to play for. They get more money and more exposure, it also provides a career after basketball.

I think this variable should also be considered in the ratings.
</div>

You bring up an interesting point. Really i dont think its' been a problem for Toronto. The lost some FA's and traded away some young guys, the names that come to mind are Camby, Stoudamire and Mcgrady, not necessarily all because of geography or tax issues...Mcgrady was probably more just him wanting to be "the man". But we have signed a good number of players like Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams, Hakeem(dud), Antonio Davis, Vince Carter, Rafer Alston. Canada is a great place to live. And Toronto aint much colder than alot of nba teams if at all. Minny, Boston, NY, New Jersey, Chicago...all cold places.
Toronto's also a pretty good place to live. True there's the taxes, but its regarded has one of the best cities in the world and in a country thats regarded has one of if not the best countries to live in, in the world. The health care system, the multiculturalism(toronto believe it or not is actually more culturally diverse than NY per capita). It's the 5th largest city in North America, so its got the clubs and the daily happenings has well. Then there's the people, regarded has being uber polite. If you've seen Canadian Bacon, you've got a funny, but somewhat realistic view of Canadians...you know what i'm talking a boot
I think the Raps need to focus on the fact that this is Canada's team, and while being a hockey country, there's no shortage of basketball fans. Just look at the # of Raps fans on JBB has well has the post count of the Toronto forum. The Toronto Raptors need to rebuild their management like they are, and really find a direction. Bottom line players want to win, and if there best bet is a few degrees north of the border, they'll make that jump. Thats all the Raps can do really, put a winning team on the table, and I think they're on their way to accomplishing that goal.
While in no way am i comparing the drawing power of Toronto to that of NY has far has players are concerned, I dont think Toronto will have a problem with it. Ray Allen has said he'd like to play for the Raps and i know Nash(if he werent so happy in Pheonix) and Magloire would love to be back home playing ball.
I did try and factor the drawing power of NY into the equation, but the inability for the Knicks to sign a player for anything over the MLE for the next 3 years minimum, and the fact that despite players saying they would sign for the MLE to play in NY, none have, causes me to place tham at a lower level of potential based on a 2-4 year plan has i specified. If NY does things right, there's no reason they can be like the Lake Show....but they have to get over this hurdle first.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Here are two articles speaking out about the situation of players not wanting to play in Canada.

Carter: Raptors Need to Sell Canada to Players

Full Story (must register)

Apparently players have to pay both US & Canada tax ... ouch!

Last year Toronto did not even rank in the Top 10 for travel & leisure for US & Canadian cities. Quebec City, Vancouver, Victoria B.C., and Montreal all ranked higher. Source

Toronto might have the 5th largest population in North America, but the population in Toronto is only 4.6M. New York has 16M people and Los Angeles has 13M people. Toronto does not even compare against those two cities. It's closer to San Francisco, and as great a city as San Francisco is, it gets small very fast, especially for a well known celebrity.

Also Toronto has a black eye for American athletes after the fans turned on the Toronto Bluejays once they started losing.

There are all stereotypes still associated with Toronto and Canada by American players.

The Vince Carter article was published in 2003, what has ownership done in the last year or so to educate players? Has this education been enough? What else can they try?</div>



thanks for the articles, they were a good rea. The last one is very old though, so i think things have changed a bit. The taxes can be bad, but i'm pretty sure there's away around the double taxes, i cant remember where i heard it, someone else might be able to break it down. They also get paid more up here...things are cheap up here, like cars are often 5-10,000 cheaper for the mid to upper level cars. and houses are about the same price but when you factor in the fact they're getting paid in american dollars i think some of the tax problems are made up for. No doubt its probably an issue for alot of players, though i do think its a matter of education. Toronto does need to talk to players and let them know about all the opportunities they have playing for a team thats supported nationally.
I'm not sure what the team is currently doing to educate players, and i'm not sure what could be done other than building a strong team and having an open relationship with everyone in the NBA, letting them know that Canada has its advantages.
Its true the fans did turn on the blue jays when they started loosing, but i think all teams have that problem every now and then. Also the Jays were a really good team, and then quickly turned really bad due to some management issues. The situation certainly wasnt helped by the baseball lockout, which compounded the damage to the Blue Jays fan base. The Toronto media is brutal, much the same way the NY media is brutal. Its all rumours and back talking from them and that can get to players and fans. But I think for basketball and hockey there will always be a fan base. Toronto does pretty well for itself has far has attendence goes, this year has been less than ones past, but has far has i've heard we're still pretty well off.
Toronto's a great city, and Canada's a great place...its just a matter of time till players get comfortable with the international idea. Maybe when there's NBA teams over in Europe or Asia, Canada wont seem so far from home after all.
In the meantime, we'd be satisfied with Ray Allen, Steve Nash and Jamal Magloire


BTW: all the online sources i could find show NYC with a population of around 8 million and Toronto with a population of nearly 5 million??
Am i looking in the wrong place?

 

Until Toronto starts winning then noone will want to come here. Taxes here are a problem but they are pretty much equal to New Yorks taxes if not less. Vince even came out with an article after he got traded to the Nets about loving it in Toronto and talked about the misunderstanding of our tax system.

But like I said before: If we want to entice more players to come to Toronto we have to start winning. Noone wants to come to a losing situation no matter how selfish for cash you are. Unless you are a big market team like the LA Lakers or New York Knicks you will have big problems attracting free agents with a losing record. Even the Clippers have problems attracting free agents and they are based in LA.

Being that Toronto has had 3 consecutive losing seasons and also being based outside of the US it makes us very ugly to potential players to come here. That is the plain fact. All we can do is rely on our draft picks and build our team through those means as well as keeping our cornerstones like Bosh locked in for a good amount of years.

Just look at San Antonio. They are in a very small market yet thru the draft they built a championship team. They didn't go out and try to buy their team with big free agents, they were just smart with their money and their picks. This is what Toronto has to do. Better easier said then done but Babcock is in good position with two picks this year and two picks the next year.

Toronto will only be able to attract players who can't find teams to sign them or 2nd tier players, which are pretty much the same thing. I would rather build our team with the draft picks we have and see where that takes us. You don't need to add a big name free agent to reverse your ways. We already have a future all star in Chris Bosh (Which is the consensus among most people in JBB). We just have to build around him and continue to grow.

 

I think that Toronto's future isn't as bright as some of you may think. Outside of Bosh, everyone else on the roster is either a question mark or nothing special. Alston is a talented guy but he's still questionable as a starting pg. Rose has been playing great recently but his age and his contract are a concern for a team that's rebuilding. At this moment, it's not quite clear whether or not he'll be a part of the teams future. Then there's Araujo who is a huge question mark and Pape Sow who has potential, but is very raw and could very well turn out to be nothing special. They're also going to lose Marshall in the off-season (unless we give him reason to resign) and the rest of the team are average to below average players.

Toronto's draft picks help but the ones they got from the VC trade are going to be mid-late first rounders so there's nothing to get too excited about with those. They could be great or they could turn out to be crap, you just could never tell. There's also the question of whether or not Bosh will resign with the team and it maybe very hard to convince him to sign if the team doesn't look like they're heading in the right direction. So really, everything's a question mark when it comes to the Raptors so I wouldn't get my hopes up too high.


As for the team I think has the brightest future in the Atlantic, I'd have to go w/ Boston. They have lots of talented young guys, especially Al Jefferson, and if they can sign both Walker and Payton in the off-season then that'll be huge.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For those defending the Raptors' chances. How will the Raptors compete for free agents when there is a stigma around the NBA of players not wanting to live in Canada? Some complain about the cold weather, some complain Canada is a hockey town, and all of them complain about the higher taxes in Canada. I'm always impressed by the passion of Canadian fans, but besides the fan support, what can Canada and the city of Toronto do to attract the big name free agents and keep their stars on the team?</div>

Any NBA player who's too scared to play for TO just because it's cold (only in the winter, mind you..I find that TO isn't cold all-year round, it just has extreme temperatures..in the summer it gets terribly hot) really needs to question his love for the game.

As for hockey being the main sport in Canada? Well, many people say that they need to bring b-ball over here, but I don't see how they can do that with just one Canadian team. Obviously if they created teams in Calgary, Vancouver, etc. those people would love to cheer for the team.

And although many players wanted a trade, it was because of the team's situation, not because of where they live. Vince Carter, aka Wince, even said himself that he loved Toronto and kept all his organizations here alive. Even if he were truly lying and didn't like TO, why would he still keep his businesses here?

NBA players really don't understand that Canadians do love b-ball (ahem..we invented it ). Even though they may not become big stars in the US, they can become big heroes nationally in Canada. I've never heard of one Raps player (past or present) who disliked it here.

 

^ oliver miller....but his opinion doesnt matter.....he's fat



j/k