To all the people that used to come in the C's forum and bash Ainge: Please use this thread to let us know how he ruined the Celtics. Tell us how right you were. Explain how the original Walker trade was terrible, and how the Ricky Davis deal was even worse. Maybe you could even let us know that Jim O'Brien is a great coach, and how much of a moron Ainge was to force him to quit. Yeah, I know, hindsight is 20/20, but sometimes I look back at what people have said here and I cringe. Here are some examples from this very forum: <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">what good are three number one picks? it looks like a thin draft and even if its deep they arent going to find a potentially dominant player with any of those pics.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">How can this guy talk about serious runs in the playoffs when he totally dismantled a team that was playoff contender. </div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> My big issue here is: Why would Ainge want to rebuild when he already had a solid team going to the playoffs every year? He is just making excuses for his dumbass decisions. I don't see why Boston fans don't call for his head right away. He has to go...</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Add in the fact that he is currently driving Paul Pierce away from the organization as well. I really don't think this guy is good for the team.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess I go by the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ainge is ruining the Celtics, plain and simple...I think he'll end up doing what Layden did to the Knicks...eventually he'll target young players who wont pan out and then trade them for huge veteran contracts to try and make a forced playoff run...</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">he simply depleted a Celtic team who was probably a big man away from contending for the finals, it's a damn shame....</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">this cat has completely ruined the Celtics...driven off a good coach and is now lookin' to trade Pierce because he wants to 'go young'..this cat is the absolute worst front office dude in the league...Laden stepped down Ainge stepped up..ya'll don't seriously support this idiot do ya?</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Let's just face it, he's one of the worst head of basketball operations ever.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I've never liked Ainge as a GM; he just isn't smart. There isn't anything else to explain it for me, he doesn't have a brain in his head.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He has completely ruined the Celtics and I can't see how the ownership doesn't see this.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Now who would you keep? Danny Ainge or Jim O'brien? If you said Danny Ainge you must be smoking crack out of a sewage pipe.</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who ever wants to tolerate Ainge will be the most hated person in Boston. Dont even think about it. Realize that as long as we have him we will never win a championship again. Evidence:Ainge likes the white man. Take Jiri Welsh(same number as Ainge) probably the worst player in Celtics franchise history. But seems to be a star on Celtics team.</div> Just a small selection of my favorite posts in this forum. Can hagrid, BC, and myself (plus a few others) say "I told ya so" yet?
Owned by time, I guess. I don't blame anybody for saying anything like that at the time. It was the popular opinion back then. I just happened to be reading through old threads and found a lot of them funny, so I decided to share.
Wow, I never realized there was that much Ainge bashing, I usually just tuned it out. I aslo don't blame any of them for their comments except for the Jiri Welsch Ainge loves the white man BS. Hopefully none of them still say Ainge is an idiot.
I'll own up to it: I bashed Ainge over the Walker deal. And, actually, I stand by my position and what I said then. Not the level of talent that we initially got in return, but the timing of it. I never understood why you would ask Walker to lose all this weight and come back ready to run (which he did) and then trade him before the season even started, before you got a chance to see how he handled uptempo basketball (and now, we've all seen how well he plays in that system). Even with the hindsight, I still think Ainge was quick to pull the trigger because he had trashed Antoine's game and felt he had to get him out of the organization. I agreed at the time the Walker and Pierce had peaked with the team as it was constructed, but I would have waited until February when more NBA teams are looking to deal. That's what I said at the time and I still think Ainge was mistaken. Did he fix it? Sure, but at the time it was still a bad deal.
I'm not personally a big fan of "I told you so". I have come to the point in life where I afford everyone a fair chance to prove thier worth. RD, DA, 'Toine, etc..... Time has proven thus far that affording those opportunities seems to have been a very wise choice. I can't stop laughing over some of the quotes 44 posted, some of which fine examples of either snap-judgements, lack of applicable knowledge or just plain general stupidity. I'm also slightly scared to know the answer, but how long did it take you to find all of those or were they mostly all fruit of the same thread?
Good find 44, some of those comments were brutal. I admit, I was a big Ainge basher, and I had doubts him and Doc Rivers could co-exist. The one move he did to impress me was retaining Marcus Banks in the Payton-Laker deal. Then he used Payton as a pawn again in the Walker deal with Atlanta. As for the draft, was Ainge the main catalyst for drafting West, Jefferson, and Perkins? Or was it one of their scouts who strongly recommended those players?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm also slightly scared to know the answer, but how long did it take you to find all of those or were they mostly all fruit of the same thread?</div>They were scattered in various threads, and came from many different people. I think the most quotes up there, for any single poster, is three. I wasn't keeping track of how long it took me, but I'd say it was over an hour. There's plenty to choose from. Actually, there were some specific remarks in my mind that I was looking for, but I wasn't able to locate them. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> As for the draft, was Ainge the main catalyst for drafting West, Jefferson, and Perkins? Or was it one of their scouts who strongly recommended those players?</div>Ainge spends a lot of time traveling, and doing scouting himself. I can't say that I know the answer to your question, but even if it was the scout's analysis that prompted him to pick who he did, he still deserves some credit because those are the people that he has hired, and hiring good scouts is as important as anything else when building a team.<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CeltsMan54:</div><div class="quote_post">Even with the hindsight, I still think Ainge was quick to pull the trigger because he had trashed Antoine's game and felt he had to get him out of the organization.</div>I don't look at it that way at all. I still stand by my position that Ainge didn't trade Walker just to trade Walker, but because he actually liked the deal he was getting. As the poster indicates above, Ainge loves the white man. He must have been thrilled to get his hands on two of them. Hell, he would've thrown in Pierce if Dallas was willing to part with Shawn Bradley No, but seriously, I think Ainge saw amazing potential in Welsch, and he viewed Raef as a more disciplined Toine. Adding to that, we all know that Ainge loves those first round picks. Every GM knows that you'll never get equal value for a "star", and Ainge made the move when he did because he was afraid that a better deal may never come along.
Ainge does alot of scouting himself, both nationally and internationally. However, I believe Leo Papile is still the Celtics advanced scout. Although, with all the changover this season, he may not have been retained. Although, they kept Wallace, so why not Papile.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting hagrid:</div><div class="quote_post">Ainge does alot of scouting himself, both nationally and internationally. However, I believe Leo Papile is still the Celtics advanced scout. Although, with all the changover this season, he may not have been retained. Although, they kept Wallace, so why not Papile.</div> Papile is still with the organization, but is just not the visible figure he used to be. He was around the summer league a lot. And, I remember reading that Danny will pretty much listen to anyone who's opinion he values. His son goes to BYU and therefore saw a lot of Marcus Banks, since their schools are in the same conference and recommended that DA and the Celtics take a closer look at the kid.
Ainge basically admits that he was wrong to trade Walker and now he's a great GM? It's pretty obvious what 'Toine means to the team/organization. I'm just happy to see that Danny finally got the picture. Raef's a "more disciplined 'Toine?" What games do you watch?
He's back!!! It's amazing how you can take anything that's ever happened and spin it into a negative. Danny did not "admit he was wrong". He simply wanted to compete, and he thought Walker would help do just that. The guy is only signed for the rest of the year, so Ainge gave him a tryout period. If he doesn't want to keep Antoine, then Ainge uses him as bait for anothet player in a sign-and-trade. Not to mention that Toine was our best removable asset, and Ainge needed to deal him for developmental reasons. He also got some great talent in return, and now that Antoine's back it's almost like the deal never happened, and a bunch of young talent just fell into our laps. Admitted he was wrong? Man, you kill me Birdman. Also, you act like that's the only thing he's done to earn the title of "great GM". In case you missed it, he actually NAILED the draft this year, we now have 3 solid players who have more potential than you have negativity. He also played two different GMs like fiddles with the Lakers trade and the Atlanta trade. I dare you to take a look at the salary situations, and compare dead weight contracts. We are in much better shape when it comes to that. In less than 2 years, he has put us in a better situation, both on the basketball and business side. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Raef's a "more disciplined 'Toine?" What games do you watch?</div>It's called reading comprehension. You should try it out sometime....<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Ainge saw amazing potential in Welsch, and he viewed Raef as a more disciplined Toine.</div> BTW- How are those Magic doing?
I'm going to agree with Thrilla on this, Ainge did get rid of Vin Baker's contract...and I know from his years in Seattle what an overpaid tub of lard he is.
Hindsight is very 20-20. I'm not going to say he has done a bad job but at the time those statements had validity. I think anyone can go into any forum in JBB and pick out things people have said at the time that might have seemed logical at the moment and make them seem like fools several months after the fact. Example: This is about the Kings dealing Webber for Skinner, Williamson and Thomas, this was just posted on the trade deadline so it is not that long ago... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Here's a list of good things about this deal: - - - - -</div>See? Anyone can go back and grab past comments and totally make them seem invalid after the fact. I'm sure everyone has said some things that could be brought up later to make them look like idiots
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Shard:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm going to agree with Thrilla on this, Ainge did get rid of Vin Baker's contract...and I know from his years in Seattle what an overpaid tub of lard he is.</div> Well, I can't really give Danny credit for that one, Baker really did that more to himself. Not to mention, we still have to carry his buyout on our cap for a couple more seasons. In fact, this season we're paying him more than we pay Blount... <insert your favorite Blount joke here>.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Hindsight is very 20-20. I'm not going to say he has done a bad job but at the time those statements had validity.</div> Some of them did, and some of them didn't even come close....<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">what good are three number one picks? it looks like a thin draft and even if its deep they arent going to find a potentially dominant player with any of those pics.</div> This is one of the ones that was proven wrong by time. I can understand somebody saying that, because it is an unlikely thing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> How can this guy talk about serious runs in the playoffs when he totally dismantled a team that was playoff contender.</div>This one is, and always was, clearly wrong. Ainge's point was that the team that was in place, along with the salary situation, was going nowhere. Sure, it was nice that they made the playoffs every year, but nobody can say they had any chance of winning a championship. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My big issue here is: Why would Ainge want to rebuild when he already had a solid team going to the playoffs every year? He is just making excuses for his dumbass decisions. I don't see why Boston fans don't call for his head right away. He has to go...</div>This one is ridiculous. If every team fired a GM whenever they made an unpopular decision, every team would go through two or three GMs per year.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Add in the fact that he is currently driving Paul Pierce away from the organization as well. I really don't think this guy is good for the team.</div>Well, if he actually was, then I'd agree with that. Problem is he never did.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I guess I go by the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".</div>That's a strange thing to say. Just because a team wins 40-45 games per year doesn't mean that you can't try to improve it.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ainge is ruining the Celtics, plain and simple...I think he'll end up doing what Layden did to the Knicks...eventually he'll target young players who wont pan out and then trade them for huge veteran contracts to try and make a forced playoff run...</div>A lot of young players don't pan out. This statement isn't that bad because of the large amount of players drafted on potential, but fail to live up to it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> he simply depleted a Celtic team who was probably a big man away from contending for the finals, it's a damn shame....</div>Maybe they were a big man away, but they had no way of getting a decent big man besides the draft. By the time that drafted big man was a factor, half the roster would've been in the retirement home.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">this cat has completely ruined the Celtics...driven off a good coach and is now lookin' to trade Pierce because he wants to 'go young'..this cat is the absolute worst front office dude in the league...Laden stepped down Ainge stepped up..ya'll don't seriously support this idiot do ya?</div> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Let's just face it, he's one of the worst head of basketball operations ever.</div>Note: This statement was made less than one year after Ainge was hired.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I've never liked Ainge as a GM; he just isn't smart. There isn't anything else to explain it for me, he doesn't have a brain in his head. </div> He always explained the moves he made. He wasn't trading for guys that he thought would look great in the uniform or anything like that. This one is my favorite.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He has completely ruined the Celtics and I can't see how the ownership doesn't see this.</div>Well, even if the ownership did see that, they wouldn't be that impatient. I can't even count the amount of times that I told Ainge-bashers to be patient.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Now who would you keep? Danny Ainge or Jim O'brien? If you said Danny Ainge you must be smoking crack out of a sewage pipe.</div>Pass that sewage pipe. People used to think OB was a good coach, probably because Pitino was so bad. This statement is both hilarious, and made some sense all the time. I know that I was in the minority when it came to my opinion of OB.<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who ever wants to tolerate Ainge will be the most hated person in Boston. Dont even think about it. Realize that as long as we have him we will never win a championship again. Evidence:Ainge likes the white man. Take Jiri Welsh(same number as Ainge) probably the worst player in Celtics franchise history. But seems to be a star on Celtics team.</div>This guy's statement was comic gold. That's all I have to say. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I think anyone can go into any forum in JBB and pick out things people have said at the time that might have seemed logical at the moment and make them seem like fools several months after the fact. Example: This is about the Kings dealing Webber for Skinner, Williamson and Thomas, this was just posted on the trade deadline so it is not that long ago... See? Anyone can go back and grab past comments and totally make them seem invalid after the fact. I'm sure everyone has said some things that could be brought up later to make them look like idiots </div>Well, that was a snap judgement, but I never called for Petrie's head. At the time (5 minutes after I heard about it), those were my true feelings. I also felt the same way after the Antione deal to Dallas, but in both situation I looked at the big picture and re-formed my opinions. Also, compiling those quotes was not an attempt to make anybody look like an idiot. That's why I left names out of it. Some of those quotes are from people whose opinions I respect greatly. I just wanted my fellow Celtic fans to remember how bad it was a year ago, and each of them seemed to enjoy the collection of quotes. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting CeltsMan54:</div><div class="quote_post">Well, I can't really give Danny credit for that one, Baker really did that more to himself. Not to mention, we still have to carry his buyout on our cap for a couple more seasons. In fact, this season we're paying him more than we pay Blount... <insert your favorite Blount joke here>.</div>Sure, but Ainge can be credited for being so ruthless about it. He got Baker off the team using a loophole in his contract. It didn't even specify alcohol, yet Ainge still got him off the roster without paying his entire contract.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Hindsight is very 20-20. I'm not going to say he has done a bad job but at the time those statements had validity. I think anyone can go into any forum in JBB and pick out things people have said at the time that might have seemed logical at the moment and make them seem like fools several months after the fact. Example: This is about the Kings dealing Webber for Skinner, Williamson and Thomas, this was just posted on the trade deadline so it is not that long ago... See? Anyone can go back and grab past comments and totally make them seem invalid after the fact. I'm sure everyone has said some things that could be brought up later to make them look like idiots </div> I think it would have been different if he put names in it. The point was that many people were too quick to judge and didn't look at the bigger picture. I think the key to the this thread is he left out offending anyone and kept names off. Now the Celtics traded Walker and sacrificed a year in which they probably would get to the second round at best, for a whole bunch of young players and got Walker back. So they got Reaf, Al Jefferson, Delonte West, and Tony Allen and got back Walker. So one year of sacrifice turned into many years of potential greatness. That really was a genius move in my opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">To all the people that used to come in the C's forum and bash Ainge: Please use this thread to let us know how he ruined the Celtics. Tell us how right you were. Explain how the original Walker trade was terrible, and how the Ricky Davis deal was even worse. Maybe you could even let us know that Jim O'Brien is a great coach, and how much of a moron Ainge was to force him to quit. Yeah, I know, hindsight is 20/20, but sometimes I look back at what people have said here and I cringe. Here are some examples from this very forum: Just a small selection of my favorite posts in this forum. Can hagrid, BC, and myself (plus a few others) say "I told ya so" yet? </div> Cool yourself Thrilla. Everyone is impressed by what Ainge has done, afterall I've been in his corner the entire time, but still he's proven nothing. When Danny Ainge took over this team and began making the moves that he did, his reasoning was "The Celtics success had limits". He said The Celtics were good, but weren't capable of getting to that next level. Now, sure it's been a great turn around from last season, but this current roster, no matter how good they look on paper, are yet to even match their success from the past. Can they be considered better or more successful than the team that challenged New Jersey in The Eastern Finals just a few years ago? Maybe they are, but that's simply not fair to say until they can ACTUALLY GET THERE!!! We all are very excited about The Celtics turnaround, and we're enjoying what Danny Ainge has done, but with teams like Miami and Detroit in The Eastern Conference you can't claim Danny Ainge has improved this team beyond what they had acheived just a few years ago. You get what I'm saying? Until they can get back to The Eastern Finals, Danny Ainge still hasn't bettered this team, Right?
Wrong. Danny Ainge didn't take over a team that went to the ECF. He took over a team that was swept by NJ in the 2nd round. Also, I never implied he has proven anything. My point was that he deserved a little time before people called for his job, because sometimes an unpopular move can still be a right one.
Danny Ainge basically was dealing with the same team that went to The Eastern Conference finals, there weren't any major changes to that roster. So the fact remains, until he can get his team back to, or past that point, he hasn't proven to have taken this team to heights any higher than when he aquired it. Anyhow, I love what he's doing and I've always had, he's certainly on the right track...
