<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">There is nothing about this current collection of Knicks that suggests the franchise is on the proper course. There is no indication that, two or three years from now, the Knicks will assume their rightful place among the upper crust of Eastern society. On the contrary, this bunch looks more like it will loiter amid the bowels of the Bowery for seasons to come. Isiah?s centerpiece is Stephon Marbury, who is a great talent but not a great player. There was a time when he and Allen Iverson were potential draftees together. Who would have thought at the time that of the two, Iverson, the bowling alley brawler, would develop a reputation as a player who would sacrifice a limb for the good of his team, while Marbury would be viewed as a franchise-killer? The blame for the current Knicks? anemic state does not fall completely on their self-centered point guard. After all, it takes a village to eviscerate a franchise. </div> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7140415/
Nice article! I agreed with 90% of everything he said(He's simply dead wrong about Sweetney). This Knicks team is seriously flawed. Isiah Thomas should be fired immediately and this sorry squad dismantled. Tank the season, pack up anyone who can and should be moved for draft picks and young players, resign Frank Williams, keep Herb Williams as the head coach and simply start over with a clean slate.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TNG Impact:</div><div class="quote_post">What a bunch of knicks haters.</div> Yes he is. But the problem is he's right about some things. The Knicks should revamp this entire team.
I disagree, I think it's two harsh. The Knicks are one of the teams you can easily hate on and I think he's doing just that. Why not be a part of the top in the east in the next couple of years. First off, even if you hate Isiah, he has some great pawns to use. First off, he has Expiring contracts to get a good player(s). He might be overpaid, but he will be a solid contributor. He could bring in a Webberish kind of trade that ate sone of our cap, but in return gave us a solid player. We have Ariza, Sweetney, and Jamal Crawford who are too great role players contributing at their young age right now, and will get better. That is a good nucleus right there. They can also have a pick to work with (Splitter, did the work for you Tribute ) so that right there is something. Now 2-3 years they will develop, plus with those huge contracts going like Houston and Taylor they can get someone good as well. That article is imo. Doesn't sound the least bit credible as he is only mentioning the negatives of the Knicks.
When the "positives" are that 4 or 5 obscenely overpaid guys will walk in the next few years-so the Knicks can eventually find fresh overpaid mercenaries,then it is a shame to dwell on the negatives. Knicks have quite a ways to go to be .500
Well, we're not talking about this year only. We're talking about the next couple of years. How do you know we'll get someone else and overpay them? Could we use them as trade bait and get a nice free agent? Yes, we can. That's great we have so many expiting contracts. 30 million this year and 30 million next year.
the only players i'd like to see go are tim thomas nd crawford... kurt is a great role player but he's being way overpaid...
Kurt is a great role player, but way over paid? I don't know. I mean 12 points 10 boards a block, and a steal per game, along with very good post defense is pretty commendable. He's also pretty efficient with a 18.65 ranking. Untill I see him slack off in his later years, I will call him way overpaid.
I think Isiah has done a decent job with New York, I just can't understand why the talented players haven't meshed. I really think that it was Lenny Thomas' fault. When he coached the Raptors, the players weren't motivated and played no defense, not sure what the scenario for NY was though. The players Isiah has acquired aren't bad players, Marbury is good Crawford is good Tim Thomas - has been great lately from what I've seen Kurt Thomas - knick fans claim he is solid, seems like an all-around decent player. Not spectacular in any area, nor truly weak in any. Nazr was good Bench: Ariza is a good back-up SF Sweetney probably could play 20 minutes per game. JYD is a good backup PF Hardaway is a skilled guy Houston is a great shooter, I saw a game last year where he dominated Toronto. Anyway I think it was the coach's fault not Isiah's fault.
I don't know if all the problems that the Knicks have been having of late are all Isiah's fault. He didn't sign some of these players to thier gigantic contracts and he isnt' the one who keeps injuring the key players that they need. A lot of the problem is bad luck due to the injuries, Allen Houston for most of the season and Jamal Crawford for a while. I do think that he's made a few questionable trades of late but I would assume that he has some sort of plan in mind. I also wouldn't lay all the blame at the feet of the coach, that's just too easy a think to do. The players need to take some of the blame for the crappy season they are having. There seems to be a lot of inconsistant play, at least according to things I've read here, and that is really detrimental to a team. I do think that having so many big names on 1 team can be a problem, especially when it comes to sharing the ball. I think the Knicks need a decent center, which is why I don't understand why they got rid of Nazr, and the rest of the team is in good shape once they learn to share, they should be a really dangerous team if that ever happens.
theres no point at pointin fingers. it doesnt matter whos resonsible. it wont change knicks record. until they let good of houston and make a few more trades i doubt anythin will change. they r all talented but its just not workin out
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">theres no point at pointin fingers. it doesnt matter whos resonsible. it wont change knicks record. until they let good of houston and make a few more trades i doubt anythin will change. they r all talented but its just not workin out</div> Well a bunch of things led to the Knicks record. The biggest thing I think has been Allan Houston's injury. First off, people keep on confusing Houston?s contract with his abilities. Does Houston deserve a 100 million dollar contract? I don?t think so, but he is still a good player. How quickly we forget this is the same person who before he was hurt, had two 50 point games including one against a perennial All NBA 1st team defender. The Knicks just have to be patient plain and simple. Everyone was rushing and even had the audacity to boo him! While people are saying he?ll never return back and if he does he wont be the same, let?s remember they were saying the same thing about the Grant Hill and perhaps even worse things. He proved everyone wrong. When Houston got injured, the Knicks just started that horrible losing streak. A very good majority of those losses were due to not closing out games. Oh yeah, that?s right. My favorite shooting guard in the league happens to be the clutchest player on the Knicks. The Knicks could have very much used Houston?s clutch shooting to close out games. He also spreads the floor for Marbury who can penetrate with much more ease, Sweetney to post up and not have swarming double teams around him which will make it easier for him to take advantage. It will give Kurt Thomas even more space to shoot and now with Tim Thomas rising his game, having two players who shoot over 40% from 3 is a huge positive. The Knicks adding a healthy Houston will give you 20 points a game and him and Marbury alone are able to have a combined 50 in any given night. I know someone would bring up that defense stuff but would it really matter? The Knicks perimeter defense is weak already and one player would not change it. Houston affects the game with so many positives and he is an experienced veteran, he?s clutch and if we had the same Houston, we?d have a much better record. I?m willing to wait for Houston to get healthy. He says he will, and you nor I are not him, therefore we have no choice but to take the mans word because he is the one in the situation right? I don?t know what let good of an experienced veteran who has been to finals and a perimeter threat who can give you 20ppg would accomplish. Once the Knicks close out games, they?ll be good. They?ve had some pretty good games with elite teams, they just couldn?t close out the games. That right there shows potential and that is something a team needs to figure out on their own. Once the Knicks do that it will work out.
sorry <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well a bunch of things led to the Knicks record. The biggest thing I think has been Allan Houston's injury. First off, people keep on confusing Houston?s contract with his abilities. Does Houston deserve a 100 million dollar contract? I don?t think so, but he is still a good player. How quickly we forget this is the same person who before he was hurt, had two 50 point games including one against a perennial All NBA 1st team defender. The Knicks just have to be patient plain and simple. Everyone was rushing and even had the audacity to boo him! While people are saying he?ll never return back and if he does he wont be the same, let?s remember they were saying the same thing about the Grant Hill and perhaps even worse things. He proved everyone wrong. When Houston got injured, the Knicks just started that horrible losing streak. A very good majority of those losses were due to not closing out games. Oh yeah, that?s right. My favorite shooting guard in the league happens to be the clutchest player on the Knicks. The Knicks could have very much used Houston?s clutch shooting to close out games. He also spreads the floor for Marbury who can penetrate with much more ease, Sweetney to post up and not have swarming double teams around him which will make it easier for him to take advantage. It will give Kurt Thomas even more space to shoot and now with Tim Thomas rising his game, having two players who shoot over 40% from 3 is a huge positive. The Knicks adding a healthy Houston will give you 20 points a game and him and Marbury alone are able to have a combined 50 in any given night. I know someone would bring up that defense stuff but would it really matter? The Knicks perimeter defense is weak already and one player would not change it. Houston affects the game with so many positives and he is an experienced veteran, he?s clutch and if we had the same Houston, we?d have a much better record. I?m willing to wait for Houston to get healthy. He says he will, and you nor I are not him, therefore we have no choice but to take the mans word because he is the one in the situation right? I don?t know what let good of an experienced veteran who has been to finals and a perimeter threat who can give you 20ppg would accomplish. Once the Knicks close out games, they?ll be good. They?ve had some pretty good games with elite teams, they just couldn?t close out the games. That right there shows potential and that is something a team needs to figure out on their own. Once the Knicks do that it will work out.</div> He wrote so much i have no choice but to agree with him
I really have to think that the problem was Lenny Wilkens. When he was with the Raptors for the final years he really stank. Our team played terribly. So had I had no previous Lenny experience, then I wouldn't think it was so. I think that Isiah probably is a good GM, just stuck in a difficult position. He was a great PG for the knicks, so you should give him a few years to prove himself. Every player in the league seems to be friends with Isiah so that can't be a bad thing. If he gets a real coach to put the players together you probably will do well. If you kept Nazr, I bet this team could have been a .550-.600 win % team. I didn't get to see much of Nazr, but from his stats he seemed like a solid guy. In the forum you were saying that he should be an all-star. When I checked I think he had the 2nd best or 3rd best statline of all the east centers.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">I really have to think that the problem was Lenny Wilkens. When he was with the Raptors for the final years he really stank. Our team played terribly. So had I had no previous Lenny experience, then I wouldn't think it was so.</div> Lenny was horrible. But can't just throw the blame on him. We have an awful team, he did his best. He wasn't very effective, is all. The players seem to respond nicely to Herb, but still they haven't been fantastic to say the least. I doubt anyone could've done such a good job with these Knicks, Herb is doing a great job handling the players. And while he isn't perfect, I doubt anyone else could be much better with this team. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think that Isiah probably is a good GM, just stuck in a difficult position. He was a great PG for the knicks, so you should give him a few years to prove himself. </div> Did you just say that Isiah was a great PG for New York? No, he played in Detroit in the 80's. And we should give him a few years for what reason? He thinks he's a big shot, he's an egomaniac and he hasn't made us such a better team. New York, sadly, isn't patient enough. It makes me upset, that NY is impatient - but that's how it is in a big market. I doubt Isiah could bring us anything, really. The man can draft, but not much more. He really has been awful for us. Maybe he can redeem himself in the draft? I doubt it, he has a lot to make up for. Isiah never was one to finish a job. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Every player in the league seems to be friends with Isiah so that can't be a bad thing. If he gets a real coach to put the players together you probably will do well. If you kept Nazr, I bet this team could have been a .550-.600 win % team.</div> Are you kidding? Everybody likes Isiah? Come on! What? Maybe a few guys like Artest and Jermaine O'Neal. There may be a few more, but there are plenty who hate him. He's an egomaniac who loves himself. He seems to think that anyone could turn into a star under his rule. And what you just said about Nazr? What? That moron couldn't help us these days for his life. He had so many problems in his game, he cried when he sat on the bench, he fouled like a madman, he couldn't pass nicely, he had poor post moves, he refused to help on defense and he was awful at positioning. If we still had Nazr we wouldn't be half the team we have here. We have Sweetney getting some time and developing, and Kurt stepping it up and contributing beautifully. Nazr was ok for a couple of weeks , got some double-doubles. But all the while he was streaky. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I didn't get to see much of Nazr, but from his stats he seemed like a solid guy. In the forum you were saying that he should be an all-star. When I checked I think he had the 2nd best or 3rd best statline of all the east centers.</div> Exactly. We thought he could be an all-star for about a week or two. Yeah, but since then he was playing like trash and most of us (me included) bashed him. His stats lie, he's inconsistent for one and I pointed out some of his other flaws earlier in this post. Please do some research before making such a bold post.
Beleive you me, I would have never ever, ever, ever, ever, ever thought I'd see the day when Mohammed would start getting overrated!
His average with New York was 11 ppg 8 rpg 1 block 1 steal 1.5 turnovers while shooting .509 in 28 mpg. Those are decent numbers. Anyway, Look at how New York is playing now without Lenny Wilkens. With a good coach, they could beat a lot of teams with their talent. Who doesn't like Isiah? Other than some JBB NY fans. Whenever I read Hoopshype.com, it always seemed that a bunch of players said they were interested in playing in NY because of a good relationship with Isiah. I recall Spree, I think Haywood, Artest, I think Damp was considering coming for mid-level exception. If you don't like Isiah as GM please explain why, because his nepotism is truly an advantage.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">His average with New York was 11 ppg 8 rpg 1 block 1 steal 1.5 turnovers while shooting .509 in 28 mpg. Those are decent numbers. </div> Did you read what I wrote at all? Did you read all the bad elements of his game that I noted? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Anyway, Look at how New York is playing now without Lenny Wilkens. With a good coach, they could beat a lot of teams with their talent.</div> They're playing better, yes. But really most of their good play has come after the all-star break now that Mohhamed is gone. And now we have some good defense and intensity (some offense, too) from Rose. And dynamic scoring and a little bit of rebound here and there from Mo Taylor. I was one of the few Knicks fans who was pleased with the trades when I heard about them, and I was right to be pleased. Coaching is a part of it, but there's more to it than just that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who doesn't like Isiah? Other than some JBB NY fans.</div> How about Larry Bird? It's not just JBB Knicks fans, don't be ridiculous. The vast majority of Knicks fans hate his guts, not just us here at JBB. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Whenever I read Hoopshype.com, it always seemed that a bunch of players said they were interested in playing in NY because of a good relationship with Isiah.I recall Spree, I think Haywood, Artest, I think Damp was considering coming for mid-level exception. If you don't like Isiah as GM please explain why, because his nepotism is truly an advantage.</div> Ha. Just like in every other sport, the players say that they want to go to New York for various reasons, so as to attract more money from the team trying to re-sign that player, especially if it's a small market. Please explain why I hate Isiah Thomas? I have done that many many many times. Feel free to search through the Knicks forum for my posts, I don't feel the need to repeat them all here. But I'll just thow out a few things, I'll keep it concise: He's an egomaniac. He feels that so long as a players comes to New York, he'll play hard and reach a higher level, even if he was an under-acheiving bum like....oh I don't know....Tim Thomas. He builds relationships with players or coaches on the team when he's not even the coach. For example, he got into some junk with Shandon Anderson, he's expressed displeasure with Houston, and he made things uncomfortable for Lenny by removing some of Lenny's guys from around him. He makes trades for the sake of makinig trades (eg. Moochie Norris for Clarence Weatherspoon trade). He gave Kurt a huge contract and said he wouldn't consider trading him, then he puts him on the block about 40,000 times. He refuses to build a team around chemistry (a proven method for winning) and focuses on getting "athletes". He hasn't acquired one solid defender with the exception of Malik Rose.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> If you kept Nazr, I bet this team could have been a .550-.600 win % team.</div> Knicks record with Nazr: 21-33 <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who doesn't like Isiah? Other than some JBB NY fans.</div> The ones that like him are yet to open their eyes, and a good majority outside of JBB. From what I have seen, Isiah has a great drafter and if he gets us a good rookie here, I'd be happy with him but it still doesn't make up for the other things he's done: Trading young talent like Williams and Lampe Messing up chemistry due to personal feelings (KVH trade) Giving people the boot because he doesn't like them (Shandon Anderson) Not doing anything sooner
