<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Knicks record with Nazr: 21-33 </div> Pointing out that the Knicks record with Nazr means nothing, because you had other factors: -Lenny Wilkens was your coach. -Marbury and Crawford were hogging the ball and not developing a strong offense. -There was very little defensive effort.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Pointing out that the Knicks record with Nazr means nothing, because you had other factors: -Lenny Wilkens was your coach. -Marbury and Crawford were hogging the ball and not developing a strong offense. -There was very little defensive effort.</div> -Lenny gave Nazr a lot of burn especially not allowing Baker to play at all. -No they weren't. Many times he was spoon fed the ball by them. -The Knicks have no defense and Nazr didn't change that. By saying that, you're just adding factors to improve Nazr's credibility.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">Pointing out that the Knicks record with Nazr means nothing, because you had other factors: -Lenny Wilkens was your coach. -Marbury and Crawford were hogging the ball and not developing a strong offense. -There was very little defensive effort.</div> -Lenny was definetely a horrible coach but even after Williams took over we were still losing. -We did indeed feed Nazr in the low post. He just wasnt very effective there. He was good at getting tip ins and playing off of Marbury's penetration but that's it. -Yes there was very little defensive effort when Nazr was here. But now he's gone and we have tons of defensive effort. Hmmm...coincidence? Or providence? I liked Nazr Mohammed this year but Rose is a better defender, Sweetney is developing, is a clearly a better low post threat than Nazr and those two draft picks arent bad either. I loved that trade the moment I heard about it. The Maurice Taylor trade however is a different story. But the Rose deal was a good one. And oh yeah just for the record, Isiah Thomas is a clown and I hope he fired really really soon.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">-Lenny gave Nazr a lot of burn especially not allowing Baker to play at all. -No they weren't. Many times he was spoon fed the ball by them. -The Knicks have no defense and Nazr didn't change that. By saying that, you're just adding factors to improve Nazr's credibility.</div> -When I saw Baker play, he seemed like he was an old fat slow guy, that really lacked a good shot or post moves. -I think that Nazr did get a lot of tip ins from Marbury, but at least he was hussling to get those. -lol, Nazr can't make up for an entire team's lack of defense! It was the lack of enthusiasm that players have, when their coach is Lenny Wilkens. Lenny just doesn't care. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tribute to H2O:</div><div class="quote_post">-Lenny was definetely a horrible coach but even after Williams took over we were still losing. -We did indeed feed Nazr in the low post. He just wasnt very effective there. He was good at getting tip ins and playing off of Marbury's penetration but that's it. -Yes there was very little defensive effort when Nazr was here. But now he's gone and we have tons of defensive effort. Hmmm...coincidence? Or providence? I liked Nazr Mohammed this year but Rose is a better defender, Sweetney is developing, is a clearly a better low post threat than Nazr and those two draft picks arent bad either. I loved that trade the moment I heard about it. The Maurice Taylor trade however is a different story. But the Rose deal was a good one. And oh yeah just for the record, Isiah Thomas is a clown and I hope he fired really really soon. </div> - When your team is in a huge mess, with bad habits formed by Lenny for half a season. It will take some time to get things working. - I saw Rose and he may be an above-average defender against PFs. But he can't cover a center as well as a Nazr can. - Sweetney could be good, but he isn't a center either, so Nazr shouldn't be harming Sweetney's minutes. - The picks are nice. - Overall my belief is that NY could have made playoffs a lot easier without Lenny and with Nazr. - San Antonio really just wanted to dump Malik, so you could have attained him differently. - Do you think that Thomas should be given a couple more years to prove himself. NY's cap is in rough shape and it can't be fixed in a year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post"> - Overall my belief is that NY could have made playoffs a lot easier without Lenny and with Nazr. </div> You completely contradicted your earlier posts in which you said how Nazr was really rather important...do you do any research at all before your posts? How often have you watched Knicks games. I mean, you're making some awful points here, you're all over the place.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">- When your team is in a huge mess, with bad habits formed by Lenny for half a season. It will take some time to get things working. - I saw Rose and he may be an above-average defender against PFs. But he can't cover a center as well as a Nazr can. - Sweetney could be good, but he isn't a center either, so Nazr shouldn't be harming Sweetney's minutes. - The picks are nice. - Overall my belief is that NY could have made playoffs a lot easier without Lenny and with Nazr. - San Antonio really just wanted to dump Malik, so you could have attained him differently. - Do you think that Thomas should be given a couple more years to prove himself. NY's cap is in rough shape and it can't be fixed in a year.</div> - Fair enough. But you have to admit the Knicks certainly got their act together after Mohammed left. - I have to disagree. Mohammed might be bigger but Rose is more intense and much more savvy than Mohammed. - You're right about Sweetney not being a center but either Kurt Thomas had to go or Mohammed. And it wasn't going to be Crazy Eyes leaving as he's our best low post defender and leading rebounder. - The picks are very nice. You think we could trade Isiah Thomas for a high second rounder? - Hey that's your belief. I really didnt want to make the playoffs after that 3-18 skid. - Rose wasnt the key to the Mohammed deal, the draft picks were. And NO. We're not better now than we were two seasons ago but somehow we've managed to add more salary any way. After that Van Horn trade I wanted Isiah fired. He may have an eye for talent but he doesnt know how to build a good team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">You completely contradicted your earlier posts in which you said how Nazr was really rather important...do you do any research at all before your posts? How often have you watched Knicks games. I mean, you're making some awful points here, you're all over the place.</div> I did not contradict myself at all. You misread my previous post. By saying, NY without Lenny and with Nazr, I said NY without Lenny. As well as NY keeping Nazr. = a considerably good team. I believe that is what you misunderstood. If I have made some awful points, please elabourate. Although it should be noted that regarding Nazr I did not contracdict myself.
Excuse me? Your explaination there made no sense to me at all. Awful points? For one you said that a lot people like Isiah Thomas, that's ridiculous. You said that Isiah was a point guard in New York and that therefore we should give him more time to prove himself - something along those lines, again you weren't clear - BUT Isiah never even played in New York. I think you have a clarity issue here, no one here agrees with you in the least and I belive I speak for many people here when I say that you're statements are compiled in an unorganized manner, making them really quite difficult to interpret. Really, please re-phrase most of your arguments in all your other posts, so we can all try to understand what you're trying to say. We're all confused, and if you meant what we think you've meant all this time, then you really need to do some.....research (to put it nicely). I mean, you've thrown a bunch of unorganized blather together over your posts in this thread. I for one am dumbfounded by your statements and arguments, therefore I ask you to kindly re-phrase them. Thanks.
agree <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">Excuse me? Your explaination there made no sense to me at all. Awful points? For one you said that a lot people like Isiah Thomas, that's ridiculous. You said that Isiah was a point guard in New York and that therefore we should give him more time to prove himself - something along those lines, again you weren't clear - BUT Isiah never even played in New York. I think you have a clarity issue here, no one here agrees with you in the least and I belive I speak for many people here when I say that you're statements are compiled in an unorganized manner, making them really quite difficult to interpret. Really, please re-phrase most of your arguments in all your other posts, so we can all try to understand what you're trying to say. We're all confused, and if you meant what we think you've meant all this time, then you really need to do some.....research (to put it nicely). I mean, you've thrown a bunch of unorganized blather together over your posts in this thread. I for one am dumbfounded by your statements and arguments, therefore I ask you to kindly re-phrase them. Thanks.</div> Pretty good argument KA Without a doubt I agree No doubt in my mind skip is wrong here Everybody loves JWohl Dude, KA is right he won that argument !
First off, please give me the arguement that you wish to be re-phrased, and it shall be. Secondly, which team Isiah played for was a mistake. I know about the Detroit Bad Boys, and their championships. All I wished to do is share my thoughts regarding the situation//observe the input of NY fans of what they thought of Lenny // Losing Nazr. I will refrain from being rude and calling another person's post<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Knicks Analyst:</div><div class="quote_post">a bunch of unorganized blather </div> I can understand this sort of remark from a new user, but I expect a little more maturity and open-mindedness from a Team Leader. Your point was easily understood from the first three sentences describing your opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">We would like (or at least me), everything to be re-phrased if it isn't too much trouble for you.</div> Re-phrasing everything is not a very viable solution. It would be a waste of time. Please tell me, what you did not understand and I shall re-phrase what you did not understand. Please quote what you did not understand and I will take my time and use simpler words or whatever is needed to explain my points.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I think that Isiah probably is a good GM, just stuck in a difficult position. He was a great PG for the knicks, so you should give him a few years to prove himself. Every player in the league seems to be friends with Isiah so that can't be a bad thing. If he gets a real coach to put the players together you probably will do well. If you kept Nazr, I bet this team could have been a .550-.600 win % team.</div> What position? the one he got himself into? The one of New york in general...either way in acpeting the job he took it upon himself. And when did he play PG for New York? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Every player in the league seems to be friends with Isiah so that can't be a bad thing. If he gets a real coach to put the players together you probably will do well. If you kept Nazr, I bet this team could have been a .550-.600 win % team.</div> Explain. How did you obtain this thinking? Isiah? Popular? lol. Was that a typo? There are only a select few who really like him. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His average with New York was 11 ppg 8 rpg 1 block 1 steal 1.5 turnovers while shooting .509 in 28 mpg. Those are decent numbers. Anyway, Look at how New York is playing now without Lenny Wilkens. With a good coach, they could beat a lot of teams with their talent.</div> Are you running based on numbers? Mohhamed was awful, I made some non-statistical points based on that earlier to which you never responded. Last I checked, statistically, the Knicks, on average have actually allowedmore PPG under Herb than with Lenny. Plus you never answered my rebuttal to your comment about Isiah not having done a bad job, etc. You really never faced my arguments, just dodged them and moved on. You have to realize that just because Wilkens isn't much of a coach, it's not all his fault - really, it's primarily Isiah's. I think most of my fellow Knicks fans would agree that it's more Isiah's fault than it is Lenny's. About the blather comment. I didn't mean to offend you or anything, it's just that you never once appropriately organized your comments, then to refute everyone else's....it gets a little wearing. I apologize if that offended you.
but <div class="quote_poster">Quoting skiptomylou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Do you think that Thomas should be given a couple more years to prove himself. NY's cap is in rough shape and it can't be fixed in a year.</div> But he made the cap situation worse!! He has no intentions of getting out from under the cap just trying to win while over it. Our two longest contracts (i believe) were both acquired by thomas, Marbury and Crawford. Are we better off with them? No. because we arent a playoff team and wont be contenders for years. Many of the other big contracts were also acquired by him, TT, Rose, Penny, Taylor and Jerome Williams. As opposed to the big contracts left on the team he inherited, Kurt and Houston. So no, it cant be fixed in a year but he did add around 30 million dollars in a year.
I think the problem of Isiah is that he talks too much about tradin players and making changes.That type of talks get into the players mind and puts them on a lot of presure and there's when the problems ocurre.The team plays with so much on their minds that they forget to focus on the game.The only way to win is playing hard with fun and a clear mind.
So no one here thinks Isiah is making these trades to rebuild in the long run while making it SEEM like they are trying to make the playoffs? Clearly making a lot of trades can upgrade the roster if you get the better of the trades from a talent standpoint. Of course not all of them have been that way (Tim Thomas) but most of the others have. The long-term prognosis of the cap isn't nearly as bad as it is at the moment, but again, is Isiah really doing the long-term thing and convincing the fair weather fans that they are trying to make the playoffs? I think so. Don't confuse that with predicting that he'll be successful, because he still has to draft good players and develop them along with young players like Ariza, Sweetney, Crawford, etc. He could still fail. I see the light at the end of the tunnel and that's why I root for them to lose for that chance to cash in their lotto ticket.
