<div class="quote_poster">Quoting pb1300:</div><div class="quote_post">If Wade was a Knick, you guys would be saying the same thing. Im not saying he is the next MJ, he is going to be the first Dwyane Wade. But everyone wants to compare others to being the "next" MJ, I compare Wade cause they play a similar style at the same point in there careers. Wade also idolizes MJ and always dreamed of taking that winning shot to win the game in the Garden. His game is just similar to the way MJs career started.</div> No we wouldn't. The Knicks have some good talent but by calling Wade the next MJ is very premature and is taken straight out of proportion. The impact Jordon had as a mere rookie is far more greater than what Wade accomplished in his whole career. I'm sure a lot of people idolized Jordan. Being that good, you're going to have a lot of fans. Padgett I think might have idolized Jordan and he hit a game wining shot at the garden. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't blame Ariza, Wade has beaten some of the best defenders in the league, and Ariza is aobut an average-good defender at best right now, but for the Knicks he was probalby the best option as Crawford and Marbury are weak defenders. Great shot by Wade, and great win for Heat. The Knicks have give the Heat good matchups in their games this season excluding the first game they played against each other.</div> Exactly, he was our best option and putting a PF on him is just not logical. Hopefully we will give them another good matchup on Saturday...only with better results. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha..Knicks fans are just mad cause they lost by 2 points....although for the Knicks, losing to Heat is not an unusual thing.</div> LMAO, wow good one. Aren't the Heat supposed to be an elite team and playing these little Knicks and having the game go down to the wire? Doesn't sound good at all. Need I remind you that the Heat not losing to the Knicks is unusual. I mean through out history they have. The Knicks embarrased them in 1999 when as only 8th seeds, defeated the Heat! Then the next year, and a whole bunch of other years. Losing happens and even if the Knicks go into the lottery, maybe they can pick up a Wade-like player. I mean that is how you got Wade right? For sucking all these years.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting OGmAXiFY:</div><div class="quote_post">Haha..Knicks fans are just mad cause they lost by 2 points....although for the Knicks, losing to Heat is not an unusual thing.</div> LOL TRU especially the knicks lol
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Just making sure, for a second there it sounded as if you didn't. It wasn't an easy jumper. So, you'd rather put a much slower, shorter, less athletic Rose on a guy who is quick and elusive off the dribble? He can easily get burned which would allow Wade to penetrate and create for any open player like the Jones', or an open Shaq. That's not very logical. Ariza is the Knicks best perimeter defender and a PF would be a better fit to put on him??? He is a rookie but plays above his level. Ariza has made some key stops in the final seconds of games and he did it on Wade last game too. </div>I never said to put Rose on him in any one of my responses. Where did you see that? I just said that putting him one on one with the best player on the floor after only playing 11 minutes is asking a lot out of a rookie no? In hindsight (and I realize that it is 20-20) I would have subbed in Ariza and doubled Wade immediately when he touched the ball to make someone else beat them. You can't really expect Ariza to take Wade one on one after playing only 11 minutes. It's just unfair to the kid. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So you'd rather put a slow 30 year old who weighs 245 on a young 23 year old who is one of the most explosive players in the league? Wade requires space because he is so quick! Ariza might have gotten burned if he played him closer, plus Wade is an inconsistent jump shooter. That was great defense and he was our best option for it.</div>I never said that, read my post. In response to Wade having an inconsistent jumper, he has hit that shot several times during the season to win games for the Heat. The exact same shot. And Ariza did play him close, that is why he was able to get such seperation from his step back. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">You can't blame Ariza, Wade has beaten some of the best defenders in the league, and Ariza is aobut an average-good defender at best right now, but for the Knicks he was probalby the best option as Crawford and Marbury are weak defenders. Great shot by Wade, and great win for Heat. The Knicks have give the Heat good matchups in their games this season excluding the first game they played against each other. </div> I didn't blame Ariza at all in any of my posts. Look at my response above. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting pb1300:</div><div class="quote_post">If Wade was a Knick, you guys would be saying the same thing. Im not saying he is the next MJ, he is going to be the first Dwyane Wade. But everyone wants to compare others to being the "next" MJ, I compare Wade cause they play a similar style at the same point in there careers. Wade also idolizes MJ and always dreamed of taking that winning shot to win the game in the Garden. His game is just similar to the way MJs career started. </div> I would not bring the next MJ argument here. That is being a little overzealous even for a Miami Heat fan. And to say that his game is similar to the way that MJ started is just mind-numbing. I might be mistaken but I know Wade didn't average 28 points a game during his rookie season and I know definitely know that Jordan never had the luxury of playing with a Shaquille O'neal type of player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said to put Rose on him in any one of my responses. Where did you see that? I just said that putting him one on one with the best player on the floor after only playing 11 minutes is asking a lot out of a rookie no? In hindsight (and I realize that it is 20-20) I would have subbed in Ariza and doubled Wade immediately when he touched the ball to make someone else beat them. You can't really expect Ariza to take Wade one on one after playing only 11 minutes. It's just unfair to the kid.</div> What kind of play is that? Doubling Wade the Heat's leading assist man for him to set up Damon Jones or Eddie Jones for an open look? Or giving Shaq an open alley-oop, or giving Haslem an open opportunity. He was the best option for the job. He gave him as tough a job he could. Anyone who actually watches Knick games frequently, know that they have lost many games at the waning seconds due to doubling. It I never said that, read my post. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In response to Wade having an inconsistent jumper, he has hit that shot several times during the season to win games for the Heat. The exact same shot. And Ariza did play him close, that is why he was able to get such seperation from his step back. </div> Exactly, if he hits that shot on a consistent basis, how is it Ariza's fault? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't blame Ariza at all in any of my posts. Look at my response above.</div> Well you said he didn't play good defense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">What kind of play is that? Doubling Wade the Heat's leading assist man for him to set up Damon Jones or Eddie Jones for an open look? Or giving Shaq an open alley-oop, or giving Haslem an open opportunity. He was the best option for the job. He gave him as tough a job he could. Anyone who actually watches Knick games frequently, know that they have lost many games at the waning seconds due to doubling. </div>Well as stated earlier it is a well noted fact that Wade has consistently killed teams with a shot in the last seconds of a game. By doubling Wade you would be forcing other people to win the game for the Heat instead of the guy who has been killing teams consistently in the last seconds of a game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly, if he hits that shot on a consistent basis, how is it Ariza's fault? </div>I never said it was Ariza's fault. Like I said before read my posts. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well you said he didn't play good defense.</div>I did also say that is was unfair to put him in such a situation. If anything I would be blaming the coach more than Ariza for putting him in such a situation. Again, read my posts.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Well as stated earlier it is a well noted fact that Wade has consistently killed teams with a shot in the last seconds of a game. By doubling Wade you would be forcing other people to win the game for the Heat instead of the guy who has been killing teams consistently in the last seconds of a game.</div> It is a well known fact Dwyane Wade is a good disher, and a well known fact that the Knicks have lost a majority of their games in the final seconds of games due to leaving someone open. By doing that you're saying double Wade and let him kick it out to say...Damon Jones who shot 6-8 from behind the arc and 42.5% for the season, and cross our fingers he doesn't make it?? That is very illogical. I'd rather put my best perimeter defender on him and give him a contested shot then double him and hope the player doesn't make the shot. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I never said it was Ariza's fault. Like I said before read my posts.</div> My bad, it's not his fault, we should have doubled the man who is 7th in the NBA in assists per game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I did also say that is was unfair to put him in such a situation. If anything I would be blaming the coach more than Ariza for putting him in such a situation. Again, read my posts.</div> Herb saw all of the Knick games and he knows doubling someone who is 7th in the NBA in assists per game will not solve our problems. He knows we lost close ones because of leaving someone open. Why do it again, much less to someone who is top 5 in total assists?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">It is a well known fact Dwyane Wade is a good disher, and a well known fact that the Knicks have lost a majority of their games in the final seconds of games due to leaving someone open. By doing that you're saying double Wade and let him kick it out to say...Damon Jones who shot 6-8 from behind the arc and 42.5% for the season, and cross our fingers he doesn't make it?? That is very illogical. I'd rather put my best perimeter defender on him and give him a contested shot then double him and hope the player doesn't make the shot. </div>Yes and Dwayne also has 4.1 turnovers a game to those 7 assists. That would make it a 1.75:1 turnover ratio if I'm not mistaken. You can't bring up his assist stats without bringing up his turnovers. They go hand in hand. And I said it was unfair to put Ariza on Wade especially since he played only 11 minutes (you know about players being cold coming into games cold and all ). Doubling Wade was just a suggestion. No need to get too emotional about it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">My bad, it's not his fault, we should have doubled the man who is 7th in the NBA in assists per game. </div>And has a 1.75:1 assist to turnover ratio <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Herb saw all of the Knick games and he knows doubling someone who is 7th in the NBA in assists per game will not solve our problems. He knows we lost close ones because of leaving someone open. Why do it again, much less to someone who is top 5 in total assists?</div>And do you speak to Herb personally? Seems like you and him are pretty tight. Maybe you could have just said that either way the Knicks wanted to defend him, they would be screwed. If it was me I would have made someone else step up on their team when it is already apparent (from past games he had won) that Wade is the man to take the last shot. But like you always say, it's my opinion and an opinion is what it is. In the end like it has been stated before....hindsight is definitely 20-20. We can say this and we can say that but in the end the game is over and we clearly aren't on the Heat or Knicks staff to know what the hell was goin on in their huddles in the final minutes. But I would like to add that during a crucial possession in the 4th quarter Wade was DOUBLED and forced into a turnover. If only the Knicks could have converted on a Kurt Thomas jumper that was short then it would have been the turning point of the game. So like I said: I would have doubled Wade to make someone else step up. Having him go one on one with another player (and a rookie at that) must've made his eyes light up. Hindsight is very 20-20.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes and Dwayne also has 4.1 turnovers a game to those 7 assists. That would make it a 1.75:1 turnover ratio if I'm not mistaken. You can't bring up his assist stats without bringing up his turnovers. They go hand in hand. And I said it was unfair to put Ariza on Wade especially since he played only 11 minutes (you know about players being cold coming into games cold and all ). Doubling Wade was just a suggestion. No need to get too emotional about it. </div> Well that's different. Wade is being doubled teamed which means either Damon Jones or Eddie Jones will be open. So, throwing it to the wing while being doubled is easy to do. There is only one way to get an assist and that is by setting up your teammate. There are many ways to get turnovers such as stepping on the baseline, shooting and the shot hits the shot clock, getting called for the offensive foul etc. There is nothing involved but a simple pass to the wing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And has a 1.75:1 assist to turnover ratio </div> But making a pass to an open player for an open 3 is not rocket science for anyone. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And do you speak to Herb personally? Seems like you and him are pretty tight. Maybe you could have just said that either way the Knicks wanted to defend him, they would be screwed. If it was me I would have made someone else step up on their team when it is already apparent (from past games he had won) that Wade is the man to take the last shot. But like you always say, it's my opinion and an opinion is what it is.</div> Herb is the coach!!! He has witnessed these final second collapses with his own eyes! They have lost a majority of their games because of an open shot from the opposition and it is the smart thing to double Wade and risk two very good perimeter threats killing us? You think it would be smart for Herb to draw up a play and say "You two, double Wade and once he gives the ball to Eddie or Damon who shoot 38 and 42 percent, cross your fingers and hope they don't make the shot." Wade hits game wining shots, but if you give the ball to a player who has the hot hand, and a veteran who also steps up, he'll make the shot!! Any PG who plays in the NBA will spot a double team and will kick it to the open man especially if they are both 3 point threats who shoot 38% over there careers! Wade is clutch and what's saying hard nosed defense wont stop him? Michael Jordan who is arguably the clutchest player in the whole history of sports, missed game winners before. Wade shooting a jumper with a hand in his face is a much better decision than one of the Jones' shooting a WIDEopen 3. Makes no sense at all. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In the end like it has been stated before....hindsight is definitely 20-20. We can say this and we can say that but in the end the game is over and we clearly aren't on the Heat or Knicks staff to know what the hell was goin on in their huddles in the final minutes.</div> Yeah but somethings are obvious. I'm sure they weren't talking about who gets the window seat in the plane to Atlanta...but who the hell really knows? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But I would like to add that during a crucial possession in the 4th quarter Wade was DOUBLED and forced into a turnover. If only the Knicks could have converted on a Kurt Thomas jumper that was short then it would have been the turning point of the game. So like I said: I would have doubled Wade to make someone else step up. Having him go one on one with another player (and a rookie at that) must've made his eyes light up. Hindsight is very 20-20.</div> May you please elaborate this "crucial stretch" and all of the details. If Wade is isolated at the top of the arc with a player not within literally 17 feet away and doubled, it is a big difference then being doubled in the corner where he can't move and turns it over. Having him go one on one with a good defender who stopped him from scoring in the final possesion last meeting must have made him realize Ariza isn't a slouch although he is treated by some people
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Geez The game has been over almost 24 hours now Get over it</div>LOL I'm over it......after this <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well that's different. Wade is being doubled teamed which means either Damon Jones or Eddie Jones will be open. So, throwing it to the wing while being doubled is easy to do. There is only one way to get an assist and that is by setting up your teammate. There are many ways to get turnovers such as stepping on the baseline, shooting and the shot hits the shot clock, getting called for the offensive foul etc. There is nothing involved but a simple pass to the wing. </div>It's not as easy as you think. Wade showed that he had trouble hitting the open man underneath for an easy basket after he got doubled for that aforementioned possession I stated in the most recent post. Doubling with a wing is not the only way to double a player. But you would know that. It's not like I can draw up the play for you here in this message board but it is not as easy as you think to pass out of a double. You think the Knicks would have made it easy for him to get that pass off in the first place. It's called trapping. You are acting like doubling Wade would immediately give him an open lane to pass to. Well it doesn't. Also 4.1 turnovers a game speaks volumes on a players passing ability. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But making a pass to an open player for an open 3 is not rocket science for anyone. </div>As I stated above it is not as simple as you state it to be. You are making it seem like he would get the pass off automatically. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Herb is the coach!!! He has witnessed these final second collapses with his own eyes! They have lost a majority of their games because of an open shot from the opposition and it is the smart thing to double Wade and risk two very good perimeter threats killing us? You think it would be smart for Herb to draw up a play and say "You two, double Wade and once he gives the ball to Eddie or Damon who shoot 38 and 42 percent, cross your fingers and hope they don't make the shot." Wade hits game wining shots, but if you give the ball to a player who has the hot hand, and a veteran who also steps up, he'll make the shot!! Any PG who plays in the NBA will spot a double team and will kick it to the open man especially if they are both 3 point threats who shoot 38% over there careers! Wade is clutch and what's saying hard nosed defense wont stop him? Michael Jordan who is arguably the clutchest player in the whole history of sports, missed game winners before. Wade shooting a jumper with a hand in his face is a much better decision than one of the Jones' shooting a WIDEopen 3. Makes no sense at all.</div>Like I stated before: It would not have been so easy to just pass off the ball to an open player as you state. Basically what you are saying is that Herb would have been screwed either way he played Wade. If it were up to me I would have got the ball out of the hands of the best player on the floor and make someone else hit a shot. Contest the passing lane and rotate over to guard your man. But hey, thats me. It does make sense. Just think about it. And btw Wade didn't have a hand in his face when he took that shot. After he got seperation it was about 3 feet between him and his man. Plenty of time to take his patented jumper. Look at the replays and you'll see he got the cleanest of clean shots off. Okay now I'm over it WadeDynasty.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting WadeDynasty:</div><div class="quote_post">Geez The game has been over almost 24 hours now Get over it</div> Geez, the game was so interesting that we are discussing it people are deciding to continue discussing it. This was a very important game and 24 hours isn't a lot at all. I can see if it was a week, but goodness! Some people still have some more thoughts on the game. Obviously you don't, so respect what others have to say and sit back and read.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Geez, the game was so interesting that we are discussing it people are deciding to continue discussing it. This was a very important game and 24 hours isn't a lot at all. I can see if it was a week, but goodness! Some people still have some more thoughts on the game. Obviously you don't, so respect what others have to say and sit back and read.</div> LOL important game??? Hope I didn't miss the playoff game or did I? All I'm saying is this Ariza did great job defending him but Wade hit it unfortunately for you guys That's it CourtVision is over it so stop crying mrj18 and listen to some 2Pac like life goes on or something. Even David Stern can't change the score so there's nothing we can do for you. Not that I dont respect the debate between you and courtvision but it's lame to point out "what we did wrong and what we shoulda done instead" And to me it even looks like CourtVision has the point anyways
responses <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I would have subbed in Ariza and doubled Wade immediately when he touched the ball to make someone else beat them. You can't really expect Ariza to take Wade one on one after playing only 11 minutes. It's just unfair to the kid</div> YO YO YO!! That is why you are NOT an NBA coach!! You would be leaving Either eddie Jones (38% from 3) or Damon Jones (42% from 2) open. Plus your point about Ariza having only played 11 minutes.....that is better becuase his legs are fresh....i'd take fresh legs over tired legs anyday....I'd take fresh prince over either of them.....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting CourtVision:</div><div class="quote_post">It's not as easy as you think. Wade showed that he had trouble hitting the open man underneath for an easy basket after he got doubled for that aforementioned possession I stated in the most recent post. Doubling with a wing is not the only way to double a player. But you would know that. It's not like I can draw up the play for you here in this message board but it is not as easy as you think to pass out of a double. You think the Knicks would have made it easy for him to get that pass off in the first place. It's called trapping. You are acting like doubling Wade would immediately give him an open lane to pass to. Well it doesn't. Also 4.1 turnovers a game speaks volumes on a players passing ability.</div> No he didn't I saw that. He just threw a bad pass. It wasn't because he choked because of the double, he was just trying to give it to the most dominant player in the NBA. I actually saw it and Shaq elaborated in an interview. They made an isolation play at the top of the three point line. I don't see how easy it is to trap a player who has ample space at the top of the three point line. Wade has an open passing lane. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As I stated above it is not as simple as you state it to be. You are making it seem like he would get the pass off automatically.</div> Well maybe 1% more complicated. Having no player near you within 15 feet and even with some flashing hands you can still make a precision pass...at least I know Wade can. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Like I stated before: It would not have been so easy to just pass off the ball to an open player as you state. Basically what you are saying is that Herb would have been screwed either way he played Wade. If it were up to me I would have got the ball out of the hands of the best player on the floor and make someone else hit a shot. Contest the passing lane and rotate over to guard your man. But hey, thats me. </div> Yup, pretty much. It was the best option at the time. Couldn't do anything about it. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It does make sense. Just think about it. And btw Wade didn't have a hand in his face when he took that shot. After he got seperation it was about 3 feet between him and his man. Plenty of time to take his patented jumper. Look at the replays and you'll see he got the cleanest of clean shots off.</div> I saw it, Ariza played Wade very well. He did free up some space but Wade can do that to any defender in the league. No one else could have done a better job. Doubling is always risky and leaving any player who shoots above 40% from the field is a huge risk. It's not as easy trapping as you think. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">LOL important game??? Hope I didn't miss the playoff game or did I? All I'm saying is this Ariza did great job defending him but Wade hit it unfortunately for you guys That's it CourtVision is over it so stop crying mrj18 and listen to some 2Pac like life goes on or something. Even David Stern can't change the score so there's nothing we can do for you. Not that I dont respect the debate between you and courtvision but it's lame to point out "what we did wrong and what we shoulda done instead" And to me it even looks like CourtVision has the point anyways</div> Yeah it was an importnat game. With that game, the Heat clinched a playoff berth and best record in the league. Every game is importnat for the Knicks with the season winding down. Have you ever heard of post game analysis? I don't know, there aren't many previews in this forum for you to even talk about so maybe you haven't, however the game is a day old and there is still stuff to talk about. No one said anything about changing the score what is done is done, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about the game. We are exchanging opinions and ideas which is the whole point of this site! It's not lame to point out what we did wrong and what should have been done instead. You learn from these kinds of situations and with the Knicks playing the Heat on Saturday again, these are things to look out for in the game. To quote The Rock, "It doesn't matter what you think." The fact of the matter is, you don't fully agree with CourtVision, many other posters in this thread don't agree with him either, and I'm going to keep on sharing my thoughts.
