<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I also want to know how Bonner gets the nod over Ariza too.</div> Nobody was expecting anything great from him. He wasn't suppose to get PT this year. Instead, he's like 55% from the field, giving a team JYD energy, scoring everywhere....But Honestly, I just didn't expect anything from him this year. I expected more out of Ariza from the Knicks than I did from Matt Bonner at the start of the season. I didn't make comparasions, but I thought Ariza would have a bigger impact and do more this year than Bonner.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Banks:</div><div class="quote_post">Nobody was expecting anything great from him. He wasn't suppose to get PT this year. Instead, he's like 55% from the field, giving a team JYD energy, scoring everywhere....But Honestly, I just didn't expect anything from him this year. I expected more out of Ariza from the Knicks than I did from Matt Bonner at the start of the season. I didn't make comparasions, but I thought Ariza would have a bigger impact and do more this year than Bonner.</div> Ariza the same thing too. With the 43rd pick people thought he wouldn't make the active roster and at the very least be a 12th man. Also because he was so raw too. Bonner refined his game in overseas and at age 24, I thought he could contribute especially with Skip distributing, Bosh creating space for everyone in the post and Marshall already being an established 3 point threat. I thought he could make teams pay because they forgot about him.
ye i gotta agree Ariza actually might be a bigger suprise than bonner, i wouldnt even think that ariza had a chance to make the nba in the beginning of the season
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">But even so, he was a BUM</div> I bet when they're picking the MIP, they'll consider how much of a BUM mrj18 thought he was on his previous team <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">How he got those points is different. He was playing for a team who was doing worse and worse. A lottery team slipping so he got his few minutes off put backs and such.</div> They must definately care a lot about how he get's his points, that's the first thing people look at when choosing the most improved player, their improvement in how they get their points, very significant. If the improvement in how you get your points doesn't translate to much on court improvement, it really doesn't mean much does it? The status of the team doesn't really matter, though to an extenct, but if it did, the Knicks status as a team this season is nothing impressive in itself, so what does it change? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">But he was still a bum. He got a lot of those rebounds from Tim Thomas being a horrible rebounder and the Knicks overall not being a great rebounding team. Before he got hurt, he was putting up better numbers on different ways of scoring.</div> Right now you're not making arguments, just putting forth excuses. He was also able to grab the same rate of rebounds on the Hawks, and basically his whole career, I think Tim Thomas was in Milwaukee before, not Atlanta, so who was making him grab rebounds there, Shareef? Again, you thinking he was a bum has no significance to anything.... <div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">But the way he scored is what is different. Just as Simmons improved his range Mohammed improved his 1 foot range he had into around 12ish and his freethrow percetage sky rocketed. He also had a legit post game and scored on a variety of ways instead of Marbury constantly spoon feeding him open dunks (which a lot of the time he either missed or it slipped out of his hands) and him getting put backs and stuff. Simmons had Kittles missing all but 11 games, and Maggette out for 10 games so he had 13 more minutes to improve his stats. Even with the center position being weak, Mohammed was in all-star contention. Come on, that was a HUGE improvement. Why was NY the only one after Mohammed and after that, much more teams wanted him?? He has improved greatly and stats doesn't just show it. The fact he doesn't get fouls in the first 10 seconds of games, or the way he's been scoring should be taken into consideration. Even if Nazr doesn't get picked I think it will be because he was hurt. </div> Again, the way he scored is different, what a great argument. Bosh has improved more than James because in comparison to last year, the way he scores is different, if I told you that, what would be your reply to me? To be real if you look at his scoring breakdown this year in comparison to last year as a Knick, [last year - this year] he took 46% jumpshots both times, 54% of his attempts were inside both times, 13% - 16% dunk attempts, and 9% - 7% tip ins. Their has really been no difference in the way he's been scoring. Nazr could score in the post before, remember that before his 81 game stint as a Knick, in which you're making to seem like his first 81 games in the league, he played 281 games as a Sixer and Hawk. I have seen him play before he was a Knick. Nazr had post moves, the problem wasn't that he didn't have scoring ability, it was that the Knicks didn't go to him in the post as an option last season. If you're not given the oppurtunity to score, you're not going to look like you can score. Mohammed was said to be a better prospect than Jamaal Magloire while both were at Kentucky, he was no slouch. Nazr since coming to the league has had a soft jumphook, and a nice turnaround fadeaway. He's also been known to have great and soft hands, and is a guy that will catch the ball when you get it to him. His biggest problem in ATL wasn't his inability to play, but the injuries in which he suffered. He "missed a lot of his dunks" like you say, but still had a dunk percentage of 87.5% as a Knick [96% as a Hawk], and has improved to a massive 89.3% this season. I don't think he was missing most of the time on his dunks. Don't discredit his production last season just to justify he has improved. He already had fair [and I use that loosley] range on his shot, his range is more about 10 feet in, but also his jumpshot percentage decreased this season from 46.6% last year, down to 36.5%, so maybe it didn't improve. Put backs have always been a decent, though minimal part of his offense, due to him being a very good offensive rebounder. I don't know why you're making a reference to Simmons getting more of a chance to play as a significant factor, when Nazr had the same blessing. Kittles was supposed to be the starting SG this year with Maggette at SF, Kittles got injured, and couldn't start, but even after he returned, Dunleavy definately did not want him starting over Simmons. Nazr Mohammed was the only starting caliber center on the Knicks, sorry to Bruno Sundov, but he's not good. The Knicks last season at least had undersized Othella, and Mutombo at center, but with those 2 out of the mix, Mohammed was the only option. Kurt Thomas wasn't planned to start at center, Mengke Bateer who came for a while is garbage, and Sweetney the current starting center is a PF. Why did you say "even with the center position being weak, Mohammed was still in contention", it makes it seem like it was an accomplishment to be in contention because it was weak. Mohammed was in contention in that you would maybe mention him, but he wasn't going to be on the team, he definately was not an All-Star caliber player. Even with the weakness at center, they wouldn't have picked him as an All-Star, they would just pick someone in another position as opposed to Mohammed. Also their was Shaq, Ilguaskas, and Wallace, and Okafor was also listed as a possible center too. Why was New York the only one going after him? Well first of all, they actually weren't the only ones going after him, and secondly, not too many teams wanted to pay $5 million to a guy who has had health problems the past few years, and was also coming off the bench, especially since they had to give $5 million in likely expiring contracts away. If players were given the Most Improved Player award for learning to not foul after a fair amount of years in the league, then they'd really have to revise the award. He definately improved his foul rate a little from last season to this one, but it was more from adjusting and getting comfortable in the new system. In the year where he played 26.5 MPG as a Hawk, he averaged 4.5 fouls PER 40 minutes, this season as a Knick, he averaged 4.6 fouls PER 40 minutes, and last season, 4.8 fouls per 48 minutes. He already had this ability to score, he was just allowed to actually create for himself in the post a little more that last season when he wasn't given that same oppurtunity. Even if Nazr didn't get hurt, all he would be is still just a candidate, many times the Most Improved Player award is given to the most improved minute person, but if you do actually improve, it's gotta be more significant than Nazr's improvement, and realistically, he didn't make much improvments except for getting more comfortable in the system, and getting more confidence. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "mrj18":</div><div class="quote_post">Ariza the same thing too. With the 43rd pick people thought he wouldn't make the active roster and at the very least be a 12th man. Also because he was so raw too. Bonner refined his game in overseas and at age 24, I thought he could contribute especially with Skip distributing, Bosh creating space for everyone in the post and Marshall already being an established 3 point threat. I thought he could make teams pay because they forgot about him.</div> Did you actually think that, or do you just think that now? Weren't you one of the ones saying guys no one has ever heard of were hitting everything agaisnt the Knicks that one time the Raptors beat them? I don't really feel you thought those things, it's easier to say in hindsight. Most people though Bonner would be a 11th or 12th man, Ariza was called a steal by many people, if he was called a steal, then New York must've gotten him at a good position, people didn't expect this much from him either. Picking either one is fine, Bonner didn't have great expectations, people actually thought he would be cut when the Raptors announced their opening day rosters.
wow....I can't even believe some people are even CONSIDERING nazr as a improved player....he's been a decent player for a period of time now.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">I bet when they're picking the MIP, they'll consider how much of a BUM mrj18 thought he was on his previous team </div> If you saw the guy play, you?d know the same thing too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They must definately care a lot about how he get's his points, that's the first thing people look at when choosing the most improved player, their improvement in how they get their points, very significant. If the improvement in how you get your points doesn't translate to much on court improvement, it really doesn't mean much does it?</div> Mohammed has improved how he got his points. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The status of the team doesn't really matter, though to an extenct, but if it did, the Knicks status as a team this season is nothing impressive in itself, so what does it change?</div> And the Clippers record is? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Right now you're not making arguments, just putting forth excuses. He was also able to grab the same rate of rebounds on the Hawks, and basically his whole career, I think Tim Thomas was in Milwaukee before, not Atlanta, so who was making him grab rebounds there, Shareef?</div> Excuses? No I am not, he was a bum. Are we talking about when he was in NY or Atlanta? I am obviously speaking when he was in NY. In Atlanta, his stats were deceiving as well. How he scored was a key factor. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, you thinking he was a bum has no significance to anything....</div> Me and everyone else. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, the way he scored is different, what a great argument. Bosh has improved more than James because in comparison to last year, the way he scores is different, if I told you that, what would be your reply to me?</div> James doesn?t score differently?? James? FG% SKYROCKETED! 7% and 7% in 3?s is very major. So it shows his midrange and 3 point shooting has increased. He is also scoring more on a better percentage and has improved on every single thing than Bosh has. I don?t want to hear about that Carter left garbage. James had much more pressure. James has improved more than Bosh. I bet James breaking some records this season doesn?t compare to Bosh either right? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">To be real if you look at his scoring breakdown this year in comparison to last year as a Knick, [last year - this year] he took 46% jumpshots both times, 54% of his attempts were inside both times, 13% - 16% dunk attempts, and 9% - 7% tip ins. Their has really been no difference in the way he's been scoring.</div> So the fact that he has been using some pretty legit post moves hasn?t improved? Also what is the comparison to how many times he?s been assisted on his field goals? Inside could mean anything as well. Do they show the average of Nazr?s range? Inside is 14 feet and him inside 3 feet, as opposed to him inside 13 feet is different. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nazr could score in the post before, remember that before his 81 game stint as a Knick, in which you're making to seem like his first 81 games in the league, he played 281 games as a Sixer and Hawk. I have seen him play before he was a Knick. Nazr had post moves, the problem wasn't that he didn't have scoring ability, it was that the Knicks didn't go to him in the post as an option last season. If you're not given the oppurtunity to score, you're not going to look like you can score. Mohammed was said to be a better prospect than Jamaal Magloire while both were at Kentucky, he was no slouch. Nazr since coming to the league has had a soft jumphook, and a nice turnaround fadeaway. He's also been known to have great and soft hands, and is a guy that will catch the ball when you get it to him. His biggest problem in ATL wasn't his inability to play, but the injuries in which he suffered.</div> Please. Nazr?s footwork was horrible last year. That?s a fact. People who watched the games could see that Nazr only scored from point blank range. Do you how many times a game he traveled in the post? Yeah they went to the post with him a lot! The Knicks were killed with injuries last season and Nazr got his opportunities. Who cares about prospects? It looked like Dajuan Wagner was a better prospect than Amare Stoudemire. It also looked like Arajo was a better prospect than Ariza too. His soft jumphook and nice turnaround fadeaways have increased in range. He was always a solid rebounder even though he?s improved on that last year as well. Catch the ball when you give it to him? No, he wasn?t. He had butterfingers and lost the ball a lot. So the Hawks gave up on him and made him a 3rd string center because he was injured? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He "missed a lot of his dunks" like you say, but still had a dunk percentage of 87.5% as a Knick [96% as a Hawk], and has improved to a massive 89.3% this season. I don't think he was missing most of the time on his dunks. Don't discredit his production last season just to justify he has improved. He already had fair [and I use that loosley] range on his shot, his range is more about 10 feet in, but also his jumpshot percentage decreased this season from 46.6% last year, down to 36.5%, so maybe it didn't improve. Put backs have always been a decent, though minimal part of his offense, due to him being a very good offensive rebounder.</div> Did it show he missed them in crucial moments of the game too? Nazr had pretty much no range at all. Please give me the statistical value of his range. Nazr has been scoring in many different ways and has improved drastically from last year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't know why you're making a reference to Simmons getting more of a chance to play as a significant factor, when Nazr had the same blessing. Kittles was supposed to be the starting SG this year with Maggette at SF, Kittles got injured, and couldn't start, but even after he returned, Dunleavy definately did not want him starting over Simmons. Nazr Mohammed was the only starting caliber center on the Knicks, sorry to Bruno Sundov, but he's not good. The Knicks last season at least had undersized Othella, and Mutombo at center, but with those 2 out of the mix, Mohammed was the only option. Kurt Thomas wasn't planned to start at center, Mengke Bateer who came for a while is garbage, and Sweetney the current starting center is a PF.</div> Of course he didn?t want Kittles starting over Simmons. Kittles was fresh off an injury and just inserting him like that isn?t smart and it might disrupt chemistry to a certain extent. So with Simmons playing 13 more minutes getting more touches with the absence of a good shooter, I?m sure he could have improved. Baker was good last year for us. These two were actually fighting for starting position in training camp and Nazr barely won. Since then Nazr has improved drastically and due to Wilkens coaching, Baker was collecting dust on the bench and got rustier and rustier until he was virtually ineffective. Mutombo didn?t play a lot when Nazr was around either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why did you say "even with the center position being weak, Mohammed was still in contention", it makes it seem like it was an accomplishment to be in contention because it was weak. Mohammed was in contention in that you would maybe mention him, but he wasn't going to be on the team, he definately was not an All-Star caliber player Even with the weakness at center, they wouldn't have picked him as an All-Star, they would just pick someone in another position as opposed to Mohammed. Also their was Shaq, Ilguaskas, and Wallace, and Okafor was also listed as a possible center too. </div> So if he was so good, why wasn?t he in contention any other time. If the Knicks started doing better, it is very possible Nazr could have slipped in. It is an accomplishment from where Nazr started and now people actually considering it is a huge step. Okafor is more of a PF than center <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why was New York the only one going after him? Well first of all, they actually weren't the only ones going after him, and secondly, not too many teams wanted to pay $5 million to a guy who has had health problems the past few years, and was also coming off the bench, especially since they had to give $5 million in likely expiring contracts away.</div> May you tell me a bunch of other teams that were? So why did San Antonio and other teams all of a sudden start calling Isiah on Nazr after he was a Knick this season? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If players were given the Most Improved Player award for learning to not foul after a fair amount of years in the league, then they'd really have to revise the award. He definately improved his foul rate a little from last season to this one, but it was more from adjusting and getting comfortable in the new system. In the year where he played 26.5 MPG as a Hawk, he averaged 4.5 fouls PER 40 minutes, this season as a Knick, he averaged 4.6 fouls PER 40 minutes, and last season, 4.8 fouls per 48 minutes.</div> Weren?t you the one getting on my case because I ?disregarded? his accomplishments while you are disregarding the fact he doesn?t pick up two silly fouls the first seconds of the game. Once he got hurt in his leg, his lateral movement has been seriously affected which made him foul more instead of playing defense with his feet. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He already had this ability to score, he was just allowed to actually create for himself in the post a little more that last season when he wasn't given that same oppurtunity.</div> So if this is the case, he basically didn?t improve at all? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Even if Nazr didn't get hurt, all he would be is still just a candidate, many times the Most Improved Player award is given to the most improved minute person, but if you do actually improve, it's gotta be more significant than Nazr's improvement, and realistically, he didn't make much improvments except for getting more comfortable in the system, and getting more confidence.</div> Why would he even be a candidate? According to you, he barely improved. And if you read my post carefully before you posted hours after me, you?d notice I said I changed my answer from Nazr to James. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you actually think that, or do you just think that now? Weren't you one of the ones saying guys no one has ever heard of were hitting everything agaisnt the Knicks that one time the Raptors beat them? I don't really feel you thought those things, it's easier to say in hindsight.</div> I did actually think that and I don?t know how you can even suggest that. Again, if you actually read my post you?d notice about 6 days ago I chose Ariza over Bonner. Bonner is a good shooter but when he hits TOUGH shots over some good defenders on the Knicks, why can?t it be a good night for Toronto? Will Bonner do it night-in and night-out every single time on the Knicks? No he wont so what?s wrong with saying it was a good night for Toronto? Now you?re telling me how I felt? The fact of the matter is I KNOW how I felt, and you DON?T know how I felt. End of story! <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Most people though Bonner would be a 11th or 12th man, Ariza was called a steal by many people, if he was called a steal, then New York must've gotten him at a good position, people didn't expect this much from him either. Picking either one is fine, Bonner didn't have great expectations, people actually thought he would be cut when the Raptors announced their opening day rosters.</div> Ariza was thought not to be on the active roster. He was 19 years old very raw needing a lot of refinement. Bonner played overseas for two years I believe so he had time to refine his game and get some experience. If anyone is drafted 45 and are thought as a rookie surprise, wouldn?t they be a steal too? So if you think picking either one is fine, why are you questioning whether I thought of it or not?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If you saw the guy play, you?d know the same thing too.</div> So if I saw Nazr play, I'd know that the people picking the MIP award would care how much of a bum mrj18 on JBB thought he was, okay?? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Mohammed has improved how he got his points.</div> That's great <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And the Clippers record is? </div> Better than the Knicks.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Excuses? No I am not, he was a bum. Are we talking about when he was in NY or Atlanta? I am obviously speaking when he was in NY. In Atlanta, his stats were deceiving as well. How he scored was a key factor.</div> So you watched him a lot in Atlanta, because from what I've heard and read he was a good offensive player in Atlanta, and they didn't consider him a bum. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Me and everyone else.</div> You and everyone else what? Think he's a bum? I just saw a post wondering how you'd come back, and another saying Nazr was already a decent player and to think he's MIP is absurd, the everyone else theory isn't working too well so far. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">James doesn?t score differently?? James? FG% SKYROCKETED! 7% and 7% in 3?s is very major. So it shows his midrange and 3 point shooting has increased. He is also scoring more on a better percentage and has improved on every single thing than Bosh has. I don?t want to hear about that Carter left garbage. James had much more pressure. James has improved more than Bosh. I bet James breaking some records this season doesn?t compare to Bosh either right? </div> I don't think I need to say anything in reply to this, and I hope you figure out why <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So the fact that he has been using some pretty legit post moves hasn?t improved? Also what is the comparison to how many times he?s been assisted on his field goals? Inside could mean anything as well. Do they show the average of Nazr?s range? Inside is 14 feet and him inside 3 feet, as opposed to him inside 13 feet is different.</div> He was assisted 57% on his makes last season, and 53% this season, the 4% difference is about what, 0.1 shots a game, so basically he get's assisted on one less FG every 10 games in comparison to last season. Again, I've seen the guy do his share post moves, I've not watched even 1/4 of his games before he was Knick, but unless he decided to put on a show for me, Nazr was already a capable player offensively. One of the reasons I also know he has post moves, was the Clipper game I watched where he scored 30 points, I don't know if it's his career high, but it was a huge game. After that game I followed his progress a little [that season], and I'm pretty sure he had some other 20+ point games, and other big games that year. I'll have to check on that, but I know he had some nice games scoring wise, but don't think he was consistent. Also about everytime I've seen him play against the Raptors he's scored in double digits, so maybe he was just doing it for me <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Please. Nazr?s footwork was horrible last year. That?s a fact. People who watched the games could see that Nazr only scored from point blank range. Do you how many times a game he traveled in the post? Yeah they went to the post with him a lot! The Knicks were killed with injuries last season and Nazr got his opportunities. Who cares about prospects? It looked like Dajuan Wagner was a better prospect than Amare Stoudemire. It also looked like Arajo was a better prospect than Ariza too. His soft jumphook and nice turnaround fadeaways have increased in range. He was always a solid rebounder even though he?s improved on that last year as well. Catch the ball when you give it to him? No, he wasn?t. He had butterfingers and lost the ball a lot. So the Hawks gave up on him and made him a 3rd string center because he was injured?</div> Did you watch Nazr on the Hawks? Really did you? I know I didn't watch the Hawks any more than the occasional game or two, because not many would want to watch that team if they aren't a fan. How I know of Nazr's game as a Hawk is from Hawks fans and articles. He was a good offensive player, and a good rebounder, but a bad defender, that's what the basic breakdown of his game as a Hawk was. Many of them also felt he was one of the better backup centers in the league, but Theo's shot blocking presence and defense was much more important to the team. I also have read some reports which have called him a good offensive player, so unless everyone is wrong too, he had offense. Araujo wasn't better than anyone, the prospect relevance is to note that he had talent, in reply to you saying he was a bum. Dajuan Wagner is still a very talented player, but very injury prone, and not a smart player. Nazr was the second string center on the Hawks, and they didn't give up on him, they traded him because they were rebuilding and unloading contracts, or did you miss that whole segment of last season when they traded everyone they could who made anything more than 4 million. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Of course he didn?t want Kittles starting over Simmons. Kittles was fresh off an injury and just inserting him like that isn?t smart and it might disrupt chemistry to a certain extent. So with Simmons playing 13 more minutes getting more touches with the absence of a good shooter, I?m sure he could have improved. Baker was good last year for us. These two were actually fighting for starting position in training camp and Nazr barely won. Since then Nazr has improved drastically and due to Wilkens coaching, Baker was collecting dust on the bench and got rustier and rustier until he was virtually ineffective. Mutombo didn?t play a lot when Nazr was around either.</div> So you're stating that Simmons shot improved because he started to play more? Simmons improved during the off-season, he didn't learn to shoot a jumpshot extremely after they had realized Kittles wasn't there, so the team needed a shooter. After Nazr came, Mutombo's minutes went down from about 24 to 18 MPG, I wouldn't call playing 18 minutes not a lot for a backup. Now according to you, Nazr's improvement came in the period between the end of training camp and the beginning of the season, he just barely beat Baker for a starting spot, then in that little time improved enough to vanquish him to the bench. Baker was good last year once in a while, he had DNP's, some problems obvioulsy, and though he did play fairly well, I don't think he had one chance of starting on the team this season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So if he was so good, why wasn?t he in contention any other time. If the Knicks started doing better, it is very possible Nazr could have slipped in. It is an accomplishment from where Nazr started and now people actually considering it is a huge step. Okafor is more of a PF than center </div> .....because the one year where his numbers were decent [10.4 points, 8.4 rebounds Pre All-Star break], the East had Jermaine O'neal [listed as a center that year], Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis, Eldem Campbell [14-7], and Marcus Camby [11-11 pre All-Star]. The centers were a little less lacking than they are now. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">May you tell me a bunch of other teams that were? So why did San Antonio and other teams all of a sudden start calling Isiah on Nazr after he was a Knick this season?</div> In 2002 he was one of the players most likely to be moved on the deadline along with Marc Jackson, no team felt he was a huge difference maker, but he was a pretty average-good center than could score and rebound which is more than many teams had. As a Hawk in 2001-2002, many teams wanted him, I'm not going to start finding who since that was 4 years ago, but the reason people didn't want him later was that he was injured, and he made 5 million. The Raptors themselves were interested in Nazr... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Weren?t you the one getting on my case because I ?disregarded? his accomplishments while you are disregarding the fact he doesn?t pick up two silly fouls the first seconds of the game. Once he got hurt in his leg, his lateral movement has been seriously affected which made him foul more instead of playing defense with his feet.</div> He's always been fairly foul prone, I was basically saying he's not really been significantly less foul prone than he was before, though he did improve in that area, and the year when he was a starter for the Hawks, he was less foul prone than he was this year as a Knick. His foul rate actually improved after he got injured, he was fouling more in the beginning of the season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So if this is the case, he basically didn?t improve at all?</div> He did improve, but I don't think his offensive game would be his main improvment, and also he didn't improve nearly enough to warrant him being the "most" improved player in the league, he just had slight improvements, and confidence was a good part in it too. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would he even be a candidate? According to you, he barely improved. And if you read my post carefully before you posted hours after me, you?d notice I said I changed my answer from Nazr to James.</div> Wasn't I replying to you asking, and I quote "Will someone please tell me how Bobby gets the nod over Mohammed?" I don't see it changed to will someone please tell me how Bobby get's the nod over James?? ...and yes I see you put it in a later post, but I wasn't replying to that later post, it's nice that you changed your answer, big ups to you <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I did actually think that and I don?t know how you can even suggest that. Again, if you actually read my post you?d notice about 6 days ago I chose Ariza over Bonner. Bonner is a good shooter but when he hits TOUGH shots over some good defenders on the Knicks, why can?t it be a good night for Toronto? Will Bonner do it night-in and night-out every single time on the Knicks? No he wont so what?s wrong with saying it was a good night for Toronto? Now you?re telling me how I felt? The fact of the matter is I KNOW how I felt, and you DON?T know how I felt. End of story!</div> Fair enough, I was just a little surprised since people just thought of him as a scrub and no impact practice player, and I didn't think he'd even play myself, and was skeptical as to if he would make the team. What does you choosing Ariza over Bonner 6 days ago have to do with anything? To answer if Bonner will make contested shots night in and night out, ask the rest of the league. Well it was more of putting the pieces of the puzzle together in how you'd go from calling him a bench player you'd never heard of to feeling he'd have impact on the Raptors. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Ariza was thought not to be on the active roster. He was 19 years old very raw needing a lot of refinement. Bonner played overseas for two years I believe so he had time to refine his game and get some experience. If anyone is drafted 45 and are thought as a rookie surprise, wouldn?t they be a steal too? So if you think picking either one is fine, why are you questioning whether I thought of it or not? </div> Didn't I say Ariza was a steal, my brother was telling me about him after the draft, and said he went lower because of some problem, don't remember what it was, but that he was a good player. I questioned it because you wrote "I also want to know how Bonner gets the nod over Ariza too.", which to the normal person would imply that Bonner should'nt be put over Ariza, and Ariza was more of a surprise than Bonner. I'm saying that they were both equally a surprise as rookies. Bonner barely made the active roster himself.
I thought you guys were joking when you were saying Shaq for MVP, now don't get me wrong he may be the MVP for his team but the League well. I think now that Duncan is out and the Spurs are doing bad brings back the real meaning of Most VALUABLE Player.
Yea, but Duncan is out, that's the big thing. He shouldn't really win MVP if he misses to many games. He was and is one of my Top 3 MVP picks though.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">So if I saw Nazr play, I'd know that the people picking the MIP award would care how much of a bum mrj18 on JBB thought he was, okay??</div> But the thing is he was a bum. It?s not just me who thinks it. If you were to ask anyone from the Knicks forum, or any Knick fan for that matter they would agree as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That's great </div> Obviously, it is. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Better than the Knicks....</div> By a whoping 3 games and the Knicks have a much better chance at making the playoffs than the Clippers? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So you watched him a lot in Atlanta, because from what I've heard and read he was a good offensive player in Atlanta, and they didn't consider him a bum.</div> Yeah, I actually watched him in Atlanta, and from what I heard and read, he was considered a bum. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You and everyone else what? Think he's a bum? I just saw a post wondering how you'd come back, and another saying Nazr was already a decent player and to think he's MIP is absurd, the everyone else theory isn't working too well so far.</div> You are the only one who thinks that and you did not watch him as much as me or any other Knick fan. All you throw out is stats and stats are not the only thing to basketball? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think I need to say anything in reply to this, and I hope you figure out why </div> Because you know that what I?m saying is true. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He was assisted 57% on his makes last season, and 53% this season, the 4% difference is about what, 0.1 shots a game, so basically he get's assisted on one less FG every 10 games in comparison to last season.</div> It must have been big if everyone else noticed it more this season. He has been scoring from different areas and his assists are coming from different places. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, I've seen the guy do his share post moves, I've not watched even 1/4 of his games before he was Knick, but unless he decided to put on a show for me, Nazr was already a capable player offensively. One of the reasons I also know he has post moves, was the Clipper game I watched where he scored 30 points, I don't know if it's his career high, but it was a huge game. After that game I followed his progress a little [that season], and I'm pretty sure he had some other 20+ point games, and other big games that year. I'll have to check on that, but I know he had some nice games scoring wise, but don't think he was consistent. Also about everytime I've seen him play against the Raptors he's scored in double digits, so maybe he was just doing it for me </div> He wasn?t consistent and this season he has become more consistent until his injury. The Clippers and Raptors were lottery teams back when you saw them. Putting up big numbers against a bad team is nothing really special, especially since none of them don?t have a real center. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Did you watch Nazr on the Hawks? Really did you? I know I didn't watch the Hawks any more than the occasional game or two, because not many would want to watch that team if they aren't a fan. How I know of Nazr's game as a Hawk is from Hawks fans and articles. He was a good offensive player, and a good rebounder, but a bad defender, that's what the basic breakdown of his game as a Hawk was. Many of them also felt he was one of the better backup centers in the league, but Theo's shot blocking presence and defense was much more important to the team. I also have read some reports which have called him a good offensive player, so unless everyone is wrong too, he had offense.</div> He was a run and jump athlete with horrible foot work and couldn?t score from point blank range. He was a bum from what I heard Hawk fans and reports coming from. Also, isn?t it the most improved player of the season? Some NBA analysts feel as if Grant Hill was the most improved player of the season when he was much better with Detroit. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Araujo wasn't better than anyone, the prospect relevance is to note that he had talent, in reply to you saying he was a bum. Dajuan Wagner is still a very talented player, but very injury prone, and not a smart player.</div> If Araujo wasn?t better than anyone, why was he so high in the draft? Even if he wasn?t supposed to be the 8th pick, wasn?t he supposed to be a lottery pick? Many players are talented. A good example Tim Thomas, but who is he better than? The draft is not a good evaluator at all and as we have seen through out it?s history, we should never depend on what they say. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Nazr was the second string center on the Hawks, and they didn't give up on him, they traded him because they were rebuilding and unloading contracts, or did you miss that whole segment of last season when they traded everyone they could who made anything more than 4 million.</div> I?m pretty sure he was a 3rd string center, and no I didn?t miss that whole segment. They wouldn?t have to be uploading his contract if he wasn?t paid so much money for what he was worth?unless you think Mohammed is worth is salary. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So you're stating that Simmons shot improved because he started to play more? Simmons improved during the off-season, he didn't learn to shoot a jumpshot extremely after they had realized Kittles wasn't there, so the team needed a shooter.</div> I didn?t say that. I said he improved more because he got 13 more minutes. Yeah, his shot has improved. Anything else? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">After Nazr came, Mutombo's minutes went down from about 24 to 18 MPG, I wouldn't call playing 18 minutes not a lot for a backup. Now according to you, Nazr's improvement came in the period between the end of training camp and the beginning of the season, he just barely beat Baker for a starting spot, then in that little time improved enough to vanquish him to the bench. Baker was good last year once in a while, he had DNP's, some problems obvioulsy, and though he did play fairly well, I don't think he had one chance of starting on the team this season.</div> I also seem to remember some games where Mutombo didn?t even play too. Baker could have started depending on how he played, and even if he didn?t start he could have been a serviceable backup, he just never got time. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">.....because the one year where his numbers were decent [10.4 points, 8.4 rebounds Pre All-Star break], the East had Jermaine O'neal [listed as a center that year], Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Ben Wallace, Antonio Davis, Eldem Campbell [14-7], and Marcus Camby [11-11 pre All-Star]. The centers were a little less lacking than they are now.</div> Fair enough, but still from where Nazr was last year (having no chance of being on the all-star team) and where he is this year (having a shot) is a big difference. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">In 2002 he was one of the players most likely to be moved on the deadline along with Marc Jackson, no team felt he was a huge difference maker, but he was a pretty average-good center than could score and rebound which is more than many teams had. As a Hawk in 2001-2002, many teams wanted him, I'm not going to start finding who since that was 4 years ago, but the reason people didn't want him later was that he was injured, and he made 5 million. The Raptors themselves were interested in Nazr...</div> The thing is Nazr was a good backup center. He was someone who could rebound decently and score a little due to his athleticism. But he had a low basketball IQ, and no footwork. Had Nazr not been injured, do you think he was worth his salary? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He's always been fairly foul prone, I was basically saying he's not really been significantly less foul prone than he was before, though he did improve in that area, and the year when he was a starter for the Hawks, he was less foul prone than he was this year as a Knick.</div> But he has been improving. Do the stats show that he didn?t foul a guy shooting a 20 footer with 1 left on the shot clock? That?s what I?m talking about. When he was a starter for the Hawks, his fouls per game were a massive 0.1 less fouls than with the Knicks. Why are you talking to me about significantly less or more? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His foul rate actually improved after he got injured, he was fouling more in the beginning of the season.</div> Oh, is that right? I must have been confused?his defense seemed much better in the beginning of the season. He wasn?t playing much defense at all in his final games as a Knick. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He did improve, but I don't think his offensive game would be his main improvment, and also he didn't improve nearly enough to warrant him being the "most" improved player in the league, he just had slight improvements, and confidence was a good part in it too.</div> The fact that he increased his horrible basketball IQ and got some foot work should be disregarded? Or that he had a career high 7 blocks this season? Or that he actually learned from past games and played opponents better? Simmons has improved his shot and I?m sure along with his 13 extra minutes due to Kittles being out, he got some confidence too. Other than him increasing range and getting much more time because of injuries, how has he improved? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wasn't I replying to you asking, and I quote "Will someone please tell me how Bobby gets the nod over Mohammed?" I don't see it changed to will someone please tell me how Bobby get's the nod over James?? ...and yes I see you put it in a later post, but I wasn't replying to that later post, it's nice that you changed your answer, big ups to you </div> But you didn?t tell me anything on Simmons except he increased his range. You just told me about Nazr Mohammed. James has increased more than both of them and I just noticed it. Yes, much more than Simmons. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Fair enough, I was just a little surprised since people just thought of him as a scrub and no impact practice player, and I didn't think he'd even play myself, and was skeptical as to if he would make the team. What does you choosing Ariza over Bonner 6 days ago have to do with anything? To answer if Bonner will make contested shots night in and night out, ask the rest of the league. Well it was more of putting the pieces of the puzzle together in how you'd go from calling him a bench player you'd never heard of to feeling he'd have impact on the Raptors.</div> You said and I quote, ?Did you actually think that, or do you just think that now?? Excuse me if I?m wrong, but by ?now? I didn?t think you meant 6 days ago when I originally posted I thought Ariza was the rookie surprise. I don?t know what the rest of the league thinks, so why can?t you tell me? If he makes it with a hand in your face on JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE POSSESION, why isn?t he shooting 90% for the season? From what I?ve seen, Bonner gets many uncontested shots through penetration or some other form. I don?t see him creating much for himself. The reason why I never heard of him is first off he was a rookie not one of the more popular rookies neither was he in high position, he wasn?t even drafted this year, he played overseas for a little while and finally I don?t follow the Raptors like you. Of course you can tell me all about him, but you?re a fan of his team. If you can tell me all of the players in every single teams training camp, that?s good for you but I?m sure most people don?t. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Didn't I say Ariza was a steal, my brother was telling me about him after the draft, and said he went lower because of some problem, don't remember what it was, but that he was a good player. I questioned it because you wrote "I also want to know how Bonner gets the nod over Ariza too.", which to the normal person would imply that Bonner should'nt be put over Ariza, and Ariza was more of a surprise than Bonner. I'm saying that they were both equally a surprise as rookies. Bonner barely made the active roster himself.</div> So Ariza was a steal because you?re brother said he had some problems? Ariza was expected to get this low because he jumped out of college too early. Ariza was INCREDIBLY raw, had no jumpshot, not great ball handling skills, and could use a great deal of college experience and to top it all off, he was still a 19 year old freshman. New York is a place where not many players get burn as rookies and is full of so much expectations. Ariza excelled in a pressure cooker and actually made big plays for the Knicks down the stretch. This is great especially since he was the youngest Knick ever to start a game and play in a game. A 24 year old (going on 25) who played overseas for two years and went to college all four years isn?t as surprising as a 19 year old doing that in a pressure place like NY in my opinion.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But the thing is he was a bum. It?s not just me who thinks it. If you were to ask anyone from the Knicks forum, or any Knick fan for that matter they would agree as well.</div> Well since the Knicks fans also aren't picking the MIP well then I guess it's irrelevant. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">By a whoping 3 games and the Knicks have a much better chance at making the playoffs than the Clippers? </div> Why would you roll your eyes at me, you're the one who said "And the Clippers record is?" as if they were doing worse than the Knicks. Then you're saying by a whoping three games? I wasn't the one making the comparison in the first place, I said the team record was irrelevant to en extent, maybe you should roll your eyes at yourself, that's just stupid. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, I actually watched him in Atlanta, and from what I heard and read, he was considered a bum.</div> I'd like to know your sources because I can give links to sources that say he was a good backup Center. Even on NBA.com in his profile, one of his highlights was: "Started 22 games in 2000-01 Averaged 18.9 ppg and 12.9 rpg over last nine games of 2000-01 " <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You are the only one who thinks that and you did not watch him as much as me or any other Knick fan. All you throw out is stats and stats are not the only thing to basketball?</div> Again, you have nothing supporting me being the "only" one thinking that, iversonfan3 just said he was a decent player for a long time now, Avery seemed to be on par with me, and I saw no one else but you refer to him as a bum. When did I say I watched him as a Knick as much as any Knick fan? Where were the stats in that post you're reffering too, I mentioned the numbers and hardly seeing a marginal difference in his game to deserve MIP. If his numbers improved slightly, and from what I saw his game improved slightly, how can he be the MOST improved player in the league, or do you not understand the emphasis on most? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Because you know that what I?m saying is true.</div> Wow, I really don't believe I'm having to give a reply, reading comprehension is a beautiful thing. The idea that Bosh had improved more than James because he's scoring differently was a hypothetical reply. I was saying if that was my argument to you as to why Bosh deserves it over him, what would be your reply? I wasn't actually stating that Bosh had improved more than James because of that <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He wasn?t consistent and this season he has become more consistent until his injury. The Clippers and Raptors were lottery teams back when you saw them. Putting up big numbers against a bad team is nothing really special, especially since none of them don?t have a real center.</div> So I guess we can say he's putting up numbers against the "no center" East, so it doesn't count? [I'm not serious in case you don't get it] Common, I don't like to give excuses here. In 2001-2002, the Clippers were the 9th seed in the West and had a 39-43 record, were 25-26 at the break, 37-37 with 8 games left in the season, and missed the playoffs by 5 games. The Clippers had a frontcourt of Michael Olowokandi [12-9-2] and Elton Brand. The Raptors in 2001-2002 were the 7th seed in the East with a 42-40 record. The Raptors had a frontcourt of Hakeem Olajuwon, Keon Clark, and Antonio Davis. Do I need to say anything else? At least research these things before saying it, please. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He was a run and jump athlete with horrible foot work and couldn?t score from point blank range. He was a bum from what I heard Hawk fans and reports coming from. Also, isn?t it the most improved player of the season? Some NBA analysts feel as if Grant Hill was the most improved player of the season when he was much better with Detroit. </div> He couldn't score from point blank range, so I guess he was a jumpshooter before, and now improved his point blank scoring. You know one of the places I read his post moves were good last year, Knickerblogger.com the guy from there came to Raptorblog once in a while when we have games vs the Knicks. I'd like to know what Hawk fans were calling him a bum, because I've heard people say maybe he's not a true center, and is more of a backup than starter, but really not heard him called a bum or scrub at all. The analysts don't call Hill MIP, but the Comeback player of the year from what I've heard. It's like saying Jamison is MIP because of his "improvement" from last year to this year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Araujo wasn?t better than anyone, why was he so high in the draft? Even if he wasn?t supposed to be the 8th pick, wasn?t he supposed to be a lottery pick? Many players are talented. A good example Tim Thomas, but who is he better than? The draft is not a good evaluator at all and as we have seen through out it?s history, we should never depend on what they say.</div> Why do you think Atlanta has had some horrible draft picks in previous years also, the Babcocks ae why. He was not an 8th pick, everyone knows that, he was at best a 12-16th pick, but more likely in the teens range. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I?m pretty sure he was a 3rd string center, and no I didn?t miss that whole segment. They wouldn?t have to be uploading his contract if he wasn?t paid so much money for what he was worth?unless you think Mohammed is worth is salary. </div> No, he backup up Ratliff, a third string center would play about 10 MPG, that's like the team's 12th man. What does the fact that he was making money have to do with anything, you're the one who said they were giving up on him, and I was just stating that they traded him because he had more than one year, and made more then 5 million. They traded every player they could with those factors on their team because they were in full rebuild mode. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn?t say that. I said he improved more because he got 13 more minutes. Yeah, his shot has improved. Anything else? </div> He minimally improved most other parts of his offensive game, but it was mostly his jumpshot, and ability to come off screens and get open. He improved his handles and ability to go to the basket a little, but not significantly. He also decreased his fouls, but many times players decrease their foul rate when they play more minutes because they aren't as overly aggressive on things like blocks, offensive rebounds etc.. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I also seem to remember some games where Mutombo didn?t even play too. Baker could have started depending on how he played, and even if he didn?t start he could have been a serviceable backup, he just never got time.</div> Nothing agaisnt that, Baker was fairly good, but doesn't support the argument really... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Fair enough, but still from where Nazr was last year (having no chance of being on the all-star team) and where he is this year (having a shot) is a big difference</div> Minutes do play a big role in that, if the Knicks had Theo Ratliff, would Nazr be the starting center, and a posible All-Star? No, no team is going to turn bench a guy like Ratliff who's shot blocking presence can change a teams whole defense just to play Nazr. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The thing is Nazr was a good backup center. He was someone who could rebound decently and score a little due to his athleticism. But he had a low basketball IQ, and no footwork. Had Nazr not been injured, do you think he was worth his salary?</div> Definately, he was making about a little less than MLE, started out in the 4-5 million range, their were many teams that wanted him when he was an FA because they saw potential in him, and felt he was a fairly true center who had the low post game, could score, and rebound. A center who can average 10-8 would've gotten 6+ million last season. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But he has been improving. Do the stats show that he didn?t foul a guy shooting a 20 footer with 1 left on the shot clock? That?s what I?m talking about. When he was a starter for the Hawks, his fouls per game were a massive 0.1 less fouls than with the Knicks. Why are you talking to me about significantly less or more? </div> Significantly meaning all in all, he improved his fouls by a hardly noticable margin. I remember he was extremly foul prone last season in that he'd have games where he'd be in foul trouble in the first 2 minutes, and then other times where he'd stay out of it and play 40. When he was a starter as a Hawk, he didn't have the foul trouble problem except occasionaly as any other playr would, but when he was moved to the bench, he struggled more with fouls, I don't know... Even looking in San Antonio now, he's averaging 9.2 fouls per 40 minutes... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The fact that he increased his horrible basketball IQ and got some foot work should be disregarded? Or that he had a career high 7 blocks this season? Or that he actually learned from past games and played opponents better? Simmons has improved his shot and I?m sure along with his 13 extra minutes due to Kittles being out, he got some confidence too. Other than him increasing range and getting much more time because of injuries, how has he improved?</div> Well I don't know if his basketball IQ was horrible, he's no Jason Kidd, but he didn't go from being Desagana Diop to being Tim Duncan IQ wise. I think every player would learn from past games and play opponents better, so I don't really know how to judge that, it's not like the guy was an idiot. Seriously, those improvements aren't taken into account, what's taken into account is how the players on court game improves. His range and overall shooting ability, his ability to come of screens and get open, slightly improved his handles [can put the ball on the floor better] and passing ability, and cut down fouls, though I think that's more due to his changed role, but I could be wrong. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But you didn?t tell me anything on Simmons except he increased his range. You just told me about Nazr Mohammed. James has increased more than both of them and I just noticed it. Yes, much more than Simmons. </div> His range and overall shooting ability, his ability to come of screens and get open, slightly improved his handles and passing ability, and cut down fouls, though I think that's more due to his changed role, but I could be wrong. Yes Lebron did improve more, but I think the fact that he was such a good rookie will hurt that. Most of the rookies that have won it were like 9-12 PPG players who went up to 16-20+ PPG players, though many times it's due to a big minutes increase. Lebron is a 20-5-5 guy going up to 26-7-7 which is big, but who knows. The people choosing might pick Wade too, Wade went from 16-4-5 for 24-5-7. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You said and I quote, ?Did you actually think that, or do you just think that now?? Excuse me if I?m wrong, but by ?now? I didn?t think you meant 6 days ago when I originally posted I thought Ariza was the rookie surprise. I don?t know what the rest of the league thinks, so why can?t you tell me? If he makes it with a hand in your face on JUST ABOUT EVERY SINGLE POSSESION, why isn?t he shooting 90% for the season? From what I?ve seen, Bonner gets many uncontested shots through penetration or some other form. I don?t see him creating much for himself. The reason why I never heard of him is first off he was a rookie not one of the more popular rookies neither was he in high position, he wasn?t even drafted this year, he played overseas for a little while and finally I don?t follow the Raptors like you. Of course you can tell me all about him, but you?re a fan of his team. If you can tell me all of the players in every single teams training camp, that?s good for you but I?m sure most people don?t.</div> I meant now as in after the season had progressed. Basically you just said it yourself. Previously [in your other post] you said you thought could contricute on the Raptors, but now you say that at the beginning of the season, you had no clue who the guy was, those 2 statements don't coincide with each other. Well I'd actually say I knew a lot of the players on most teams training camps, in summer I read most of the printed news articles on teams, but it's all good. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So Ariza was a steal because you?re brother said he had some problems? Ariza was expected to get this low because he jumped out of college too early. Ariza was INCREDIBLY raw, had no jumpshot, not great ball handling skills, and could use a great deal of college experience and to top it all off, he was still a 19 year old freshman. New York is a place where not many players get burn as rookies and is full of so much expectations. Ariza excelled in a pressure cooker and actually made big plays for the Knicks down the stretch. This is great especially since he was the youngest Knick ever to start a game and play in a game. A 24 year old (going on 25) who played overseas for two years and went to college all four years isn?t as surprising as a 19 year old doing that in a pressure place like NY in my opinion.</div> No, not from his personal opinion, he said he read or heard on TV, that teams were passing Ariza because of some baggage, don't remember what it was, it was either him not being mature, or something with his mom, his jumpshot wasn't that bad as a Collegiate player though. I don't think Ariza really had pressure on him as a second round pick though, I know Bonner had no pressure since no one thought he would even get PT, but like I said, picking either on is fine, their's no need for argument on that.
so long Before the one above me i havent been able to read the last 4 posts....i dont have all night......they are so dang long!!
just skimmed the above. MIP Simmons vs. Nazr? Simmons without a question. Last year he was a quality bench player who could give you good defense. This year, he's developed into one of the best midrange threats in the entire league and a legitimate 2nd option. His jumpshot has improved drastically, in both accuracy and range. Nazr was always a quality role player who gave you decent minutes, and he's still that.
MVP - Shaq O'Neal Most Improved - A. Stoudemire Sixth Man - Ben Gordon Rookie Of the Year - Emeka Okafor Defensive player of the Year - Andrei Kirilenko
ok in four pages of posting for MIP not one has ever mentioned Primoz Brezec of the bobcats!!!!! last year he averaged like 2 points and 3 rebounds. now when he gets the time hes at 12 ppg and 7 boards. kinda improved to me but well. MVP:Nash DPOY:Ben Wallace ROY:Emeka Okafor MIPRIMOZ BREZEC
The only reason I wouldn't mention Brezec is because Indiana fans said the guy was really good, he had a good shooting touch etc etc, and that they were dissapointed to lose him because he was good but just couldn't get PT. He is a candidate though because Most Improved Minutes get's you MIP also.
Most Valuable Player Steve Nash Defensive Player of the Year Tim Duncan Rookie of the Year Andre Igoudala (or however you spell it ) Sixth Man of the Year Ben Gordon Most Improved Player Bobby Simmons Coach of the Year George Karl Biggest Disappointment Minnesota Timberwolves Biggest Surprise Seattle Sonics Comeback player of the year Grant Hill Biggest player disappointment Ron Artest Biggest rookie surprise Matt Bonner Biggest rookie disappointment Rafael Araujo..drafted 8th pick and hasn't lived up to his expectations
