andre igoudala for roy? he's great and all but there are 4 rookies ahead of him, (okafor, gordan, howard, and deng)
^ Deng is arguable because of the injury I had him as my ROY pick though, since I though he'd get more shots and maybe PT.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Well since the Knicks fans also aren't picking the MIP well then I guess it's irrelevant.</div> And you?re not picking either. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would you roll your eyes at me, you're the one who said "And the Clippers record is?" as if they were doing worse than the Knicks. Then you're saying by a whoping three games? I wasn't the one making the comparison in the first place, I said the team record was irrelevant to en extent, maybe you should roll your eyes at yourself, that's just stupid.</div> I?m rolling my eyes at you! You?re the one who said ?The status of the team doesn't really matter, though to an extenct, but if it did, the Knicks status as a team this season is nothing impressive in itself, so what does it change? as if the Clippers record was much better. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I'd like to know your sources because I can give links to sources that say he was a good backup Center. Even on NBA.com in his profile, one of his highlights was: "Started 22 games in 2000-01 Averaged 18.9 ppg and 12.9 rpg over last nine games of 2000-01 "</div> He definitely wasn?t putting up those numbers with the Knicks! I wonder what that means if only averaged 12 and 9 when he was a Hawk. Isn?t it from season to season? If this were the case, people wouldn?t consider Grant Hill being the most improved? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, you have nothing supporting me being the "only" one thinking that, iversonfan3 just said he was a decent player for a long time now, Avery seemed to be on par with me, and I saw no one else but you refer to him as a bum.</div> Have you ever taken a look at the Knicks forum? People who watch the Knicks just about every game can tell you. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When did I say I watched him as a Knick as much as any Knick fan? Where were the stats in that post you're reffering too, I mentioned the numbers and hardly seeing a marginal difference in his game to deserve MIP. If his numbers improved slightly, and from what I saw his game improved slightly, how can he be the MOST improved player in the league, or do you not understand the emphasis on most?</div> Well again, if you read my post you?d notice I chose LeBron James. And you?re talking to me about reading comprehension? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, I really don't believe I'm having to give a reply, reading comprehension is a beautiful thing. The idea that Bosh had improved more than James because he's scoring differently was a hypothetical reply. I was saying if that was my argument to you as to why Bosh deserves it over him, what would be your reply? I wasn't actually stating that Bosh had improved more than James because of that </div> So how has he? Do you think he has? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So I guess we can say he's putting up numbers against the "no center" East, so it doesn't count? [I'm not serious in case you don't get it] Common, I don't like to give excuses here. In 2001-2002, the Clippers were the 9th seed in the West and had a 39-43 record, were 25-26 at the break, 37-37 with 8 games left in the season, and missed the playoffs by 5 games. The Clippers had a frontcourt of Michael Olowokandi [12-9-2] and Elton Brand.
Most Valuable Player - Allen Iverson Defensive Player of the Year - Tim Duncan Rookie of the Year - Ben Gordon/Emeka Okafor Sixth Man of the Year - Ben Gordon Most Improved Player - Bobbby Simmons Coach of the Year - Nate Mc Millan Biggest Disappointment - Timberwovles Biggest Surprise - Sonics Comeback player of the year - Grant Hill (who else) Biggest player dissapointment - Ron Artest Biggest rookie surprise- Nenad Krstic Biggest rookie dissapointment - cant thnk of any...but maybe Livingston coz he's injured for the most part of the season
Yo even though I loves my man Starbury I think Shaq should get it. I mean dude is big as **** and that ***** is just off tha chain, feel me? Look what he has done for that Miami team, feel me?
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And you?re not picking either.</div> Yes, but I didn't make any statements like that, I never said Bobby Simmons was a bum last season. Hey, but if bums like Nazr can get you talking about a deal with Memphis to get Shane Battier, then it's fine with me <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I?m rolling my eyes at you! You?re the one who said ?The status of the team doesn't really matter, though to an extenct, but if it did, the Knicks status as a team this season is nothing impressive in itself, so what does it change? as if the Clippers record was much better.</div> Again, what does that have to do with anything? I said the status doesn't matter, just to an extent in that it would be harder to get it if you're playing for the Bobcats or Hawks, but you'd have a better chance on a team like the Suns or Heat. Their is no place in their where I said the Clippers record will propel Simmons to the award. The Knicks are at best a mediocre team, so like I said, it changes nothing, still doesn't make sense as to why you'd reply "and what's the Clippers record" or whatever you said. Also saying that makes it seem as if the Knicks have a better record, maybe you thought they did, but neither team is doing anything special, but just one of the pack. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He definitely wasn?t putting up those numbers with the Knicks! I wonder what that means if only averaged 12 and 9 when he was a Hawk. Isn?t it from season to season? If this were the case, people wouldn?t consider Grant Hill being the most improved? </div> Unless Nazr had screwed up ankles, and a life threatning surgery, I don't think it's the same situation. He did have 2 stree fractures in his leg, likely due to weight, but he lost the weight in the O-season before 03-04. They said it with Hill because some people didn't expect him to get back to a high level, and it's more of in a comeback player term. You see that no one mentions Antione Walker and Antawn Jamison, though their stats dropped last season, and are back up. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you ever taken a look at the Knicks forum? People who watch the Knicks just about every game can tell you.</div> No I've actually never taken a look at the Knicks forum, so that's my bad <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Well again, if you read my post you?d notice I chose LeBron James. And you?re talking to me about reading comprehension? </div> Yes and I acknowledged that, the argument isn't about who you chose, but about it Nazr Mohammed deserves it over Bobby Simmons. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This game where Mohammed started to dominate, the superior Olowokandi was in foul trouble, and Brand was struggling and had 4 fouls. The Hawks still got killed that game by 23 points. You?re acting as if that?s good that they missed the playoffs by 5 games. The second game they played, Nazr was back to his old self with 4 points 2-7 shooting, 0-2 freethrows, 6 rebounds, and 3 turnovers in 26 minutes. If it weren?t for the huge games by Terry and Shareef, the Hawks would have lost again. Hakeem ?Way out of his Prime? Olajuwon at age 40? I know that he was good back in then, but common. Keon Clark was okay I guess. The Raptors front court was nothing great. And your basing a lot of this stuff on two games??? The Raptors and Clippers over the last couple of years have been struggling as of late and mentioning them doesn?t greatly improve Nazr?s stock.</div> Kandi had foul trouble but played 31 minutes in a blowout, and I think he averaged 32 MPG that season. As for Brand, having 4 fouls isn't really a big deal, the average big man playing 35+ minutes averages about 3 fouls a game. Brand wasn't really struggling, but he got doubled, so he was more of a passer which was why he also got 5 assists. He also had 10 rebounds and went to the line 8 times. I bet it was because of Nazr that they lost by 23 points too... About the next game, since it's not really up to Nazr to win games for them, those guys better step up. I don't think having a bad game really dictated his season, unless he went back to his "old ways" a lot this season. That second game though, how he scored was what was important, he hit a 12 foot mid-range jumper, and did a drop step and hook shot on the second basket About the Clips, they haven't made the playoffs for the last who knows how long. Odom missed almost the whole season playing only 29 games, and they were 5 games away from the playoffs, and at 37-37 with 8 games left. Yea I think that's pretty good, especially considering you said "against a bad team". If the 9th seed 39-43 Clippers are a bad team, then what have the Knicks been the past few years, since you seemed to be angry when I said their record doesn't play a part in this. So I guess Nazr was just putting up numbers on a bad team then, just like in Atlanta... Hakeem averaged 7 points, 6 rebounds, and 1.5 blocks, and was still fairly good defensively, just not on quick guys. A bum player shouldn't be able to do good against him, since at 39, he'd still be better right? Antonio Davis was an All-Star that season, and Keon Clark averaged 11 points, 7 rebounds and 1.5 blocks, yea, the frontcourt was just okay... You also reffered to the Clippers and Raptors as "lottery" and "bad" teams. Well let's say we only count his performances vs good frontcourts from that year. Game before the Clippers game, they played the Heat [Alonzo Mourining - Brian Grant], Nazr had 13 points and 14 rebounds, they even won the game . <font size="1">game after that, vs Jazz [Malone, Ostertag] - 20 points, 13 rebounds vs Spurs [Duncan - Rob] - 10 points, 9 rebounds vs Jazz - 11 points, 7 rebounds vs Knicks [Camby - Thomas] - 12 points, 12 rebounds, he did bad the first game, so I guess he was learning from his previous game vs Spurs - 10 points, 4 rebounds, 16 mins vs Pacers [Foster - JO] - 15 points, 13 rebounds. 3 blocks vs Charlotte [Elden - PJ] - 12 points, 13 rebounds Dallas was known for their weak frontcourt, so his 21 and 18 + 5 blocks vs Dirk doesn't count Also had 22 and 19 vs the Bucks with Anthony Mason and Ervin Johnson, don't know if that counts. vs Rockets [Cato - Griffin] - 18 points, 17 rebound vs Pistons - 16 points, 14 rebounds vs Twolves - 11 points, 11 rebounds vs Lakers - 15 points, 7 rebounds vs Wizards [Haywood (young)- Popeye] - 15 points, 13 rebounds vs Warriors - 15 points, 11 rebounds vs Warriors - 16 points, 6 rebounds vs Pacers [JO - Brad Miller] - 15 points, 9 rebounds vs Knicks [KT - Spoon] - 24 points, 11 rebounds vs Pacers - 18 points, 9 rebounds vs Pistons - 17 points, 12 rebounds [injured Wallace] vs Hornets - 10 points, 10 rebounds Didn't include games with under 10 points, or games where he only rebounded well, and scored decently, so if he had 9 points and 17 rebounds [vs Sac], doesn't count because I don't think their was any debate as to whether he could rebound. 4 of Nazr's best games in the season also when All-Star talk about him got a boot, teams played: Hawks, Raptors, Raptors, Hawks. 8 point game where he had 8 blocks, opponent: New Jersey Nets with Jason Collins at center and Scalabrine at PF. Games vs good frontcourts this season: vs Pacers 20 points, 15 rebounds vs Rockets 12 points, 13 rebounds vs Cavs [it's a stretch] - 11 points, 9 rebounds vs Grizzlies - 16 points, 12 rebounds vs Wizards - 20 points, 11 rebounds vs Celtics [don't know about this one] - 22 points, 18 rebounds vs Kings - 22 points, 11 rebounds vs Cavs - 21 points, 10 rebounds vs Kings - 16 points, 10 rebounds vs Suns - 10 points, 8 rebounds</font> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oops, typo. I meant to write and could only score from point blank range. So a random guy from Knickerblogger.com said he had good post moves? So I guess because he says so, it automatically makes him have some great post moves. His foot work and post moves were horrible. Well, I have many friends and family in the south?they are die hard Hawk, and Magic fans so I do know a thing or too about them. Some analysts do call Hill the MIP.</div> Actually it was the owner of the site, so I don't know, I'd guess he'd be able to access that himself, unless like you said, every Knick fan thought he was a bum. Their was no use of the words "great", he said good. I thought he had decent post moves, and below average footwork. Right now when I see him, I still see decent post moves and okay footwork, though I will agree that he's improved his footwork through the years, but I haven't seen anything significant. Another place I read references to Nazr Mohammed, was on the RealGM Hawks page, and on HawkSquak and I can't recall ever hearing him being called a bum. All I ever heard them say was very good rebounder, can score, suspect hands ala Mark Blount, bad defense, bad passer, and not a "true center". <font size="1">Hawks mod at RealGM WHY IT COULD WORK FOR THE PACERS: Jason Terry would bolster their backcourt immensly. He can play both G positions for them and provides more shooting and quickness. Stephen Jackson is a fine replacement for Harrington as the backup SF. Nazr Mohammed is an upgrade from Scott Pollard. Nazr has a similar game to Brad Miller in that he can knock down that 15 foot jump shot and is a good rebounder. Hawks Poster Who are we going to trade for anything that significantly improves our team? Nazr? Hendu? Crawford? Unless you are talking about trading Reef or Ratliff (which is what I?m suggesting) then you are only talking about tinkering. And that will not improve our ball club?in fact, we could actually get worse were we to tinker and deal Nazr or Stephen Jackson. -Teams that get worse from trading bum players, never heard of that before... Hawks Poster Nazr will always have value if he's healthy and and in shape (of course we may need him if we start throwing other players overboard) HawkSquak Poster nazr - I always liked his game. He was an excellent defender and rebounder at Kentucky and he's the guy that I wanted Babcock to draft in 98. We needed a SF, but we really needed a defensive presence behind Deke. I was happy that we landed him in the Theo deal and I KNEW he was going to be more than just filler. Of all the moves that BK made, I really didn't agree with the nazr trade. He's only making like 5 - 6 million and he's worth every penny of it. Seems like BK just moved nazr just to be moving him and honestly, I thought it was just a stupid deal. You don't move a decent big man just to be moving him. Now nazr's doing great. Even with all those shooters and all those long rebounds in NY, he's still averaging near a double double with 12/9. With a little more focus in the offense, nazr is EASILY a 15/10 center and we could really use that now and into the future. HawkSquak Poster I was a big nazr fan and was happy when we had nazr/Sheed/Jax/JT.. after the trade. I do think we rushed to trade nazr. I think he provided a lot at his <u>low</u> salary (for a C that can get you ~10 boards per). HawkSquak Poster Where would the Knicks be without nazr Mohammed? Man, I always liked nazr....regardless of his lack of shot blocking and suspect hands. His production is nothing new, though. He put up some very gaudy numbers for us in a few seasons. How many times does a guy have to post 22/15 for you to pay attention. <u>HawksSquak, Right after trade:</u> I don't know exactly why the Hawks would trade Nazr, espically without even giving him a chance to to get big minutes now that Ratliff is gone. Was his contract that big? I always thought he could be a solid center. I guess that Hawks do want to start over and rebuild completely. So the bottom line is that every team improved with Detroit showing the most improvement. In the case of Atlanta, I think it's about chemistry. We went from being a team that didn't have a gameplan to being a team who's gameplan was speed. Also, we deducted a lot of payroll. The question is would Rasheed and nazr have made us winners? I don't know. I think that we would have been contenders for the playoffs but we would have lost out early. Then, I think we would have had no shot at keeping Sheed. Moreover, I don't think Jax would have came out the way he has and I don't know if we would be as good ball handling wise as we are with Sura. I agree, but I still think we should have kept nazr. At 5 mil a year, he does his job well. Give a guy like hime some PT and he'll produce. Tradeing him was a mistake. He doesn't make much green and can at least back-up, if not start We could be what you are talking about had we kept Sheed. When we picked up Sheed, we was still in the race. With Sheed and <u>nazr</u>, I am sure we would have won about 10 -12 more games than we did. We would have finished probably 8th in the division and been in the playoffs. <u>HawkSquak Posts before he was traded:</u> Hawks suck. Hawks suck. That's what I hear all the friggin time, but you know what, I think that's [censored]. This team has the talent to be effective. With Dog gone, we should jell a lot better. We are going to resign JT and likely Glover too, along with that, we are looking to bring back Smitty, and we are looking at others like Voshon Lenard, Kenny Anderson, and some other good vets. Did I even mention that Nazr mohammed is back and 100%? That will add another 10 and 7 off the bench Hey, if Nazr has a good year, that will be huge. He has the talent to be a great player, and again, he is young. Nazr has boatloads of talent, but he has been overweight and that has lead to his foot problems. He can be such a good rebounder and has some scoring ability Nazr and LoWright's games are very similar, they are both scoring/rebounding Centers. This is why I wanted to get LoWright back on our team instead of having Theo Nazr is a big, strong center. When he was completely healthy, which I believe he is right now, he is a very good center. I like the idea of a lineup of Diaw/JT/Battier/Reef/mohammed.... that sounds good. I don't like the way Ratliff is playing, he is becoming a one dimensional player, and he isn't even good at that because he gets in foul trouble so often that he can't be on the floor enough... I think mohammed's scoring and rebounding outweigh Ratliff's shotblocking, on offense he is a good compliment to Reef, his defense is a liability, but he is a wider body in the paint than Ratliff, harder to push around.. I think that lineup could do it all, All JT has to do is score and guard the PGs. Diaw run the offense. Battier throw the ball into Reef, I love it Reef doubled, back out to Battier for 3 , yes! I guess what I'm saying is that while I would trade JT and Nazr for the right deal, I wouldn't GIVE them away. Both can be productive role players in the right situation and we might be able to create that situation without trading either of them. I like Nazr and I think he has gotten a lot better as this season has gone along. Nazr is only 26, he won't reach his prime until next season. He's already one of the best rebounders per 48 in the NBA. I think he struggled early coming off the foot problem but that appears to be completely healed. I think he is a solid player for what he makes and I am not pressed to trade him at all. http://www.ajc.com/hawks/content/sports/ha...03/07hawks.html</font> <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The point was ?talent? doesn?t really equate to what someone does in the NBA.</div> Yup, that's definately true... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I was asking if he deserved his salary. The way you are making him sound, he deserves much more.</div> Well as you see in quotes, I guess Hawks fans felt he did, look at how much money centers get paid, Andrew Declerq even got a fair amount of money for a play of his talent just because he could play center. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">So basically his jumper and small other things. That?s it.</div> Yup, yup... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Uhh?yeah.</div> Yeah what? Baker would've started because he was fairly good? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I?m saying if he was putting up those numbers when he first came here in comparison to what he was doing when he was healthy, he would not have been talked about. </div> When he first came to the Knicks, he put up 9.1 points and 7.7 rebounds in about 25 minutes. This season [without the injury games], he put up 11.8 points, 8.6 rebounds in about 30 minutes <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">6 million+? That sounds like a lot of dough for a back up. I think that?s overpaying him, but I guess we have our own opinions.</div> That's not my opinion on what he should get, that's just how the market works with centers in the NBA. Though I do think a 10-8 center should get at least MLE, and he wasn't a backup then, he was a starter. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">This season, he didn?t make as many silly fouls like fouling someone shooting a turnaround fadeaway 18 feet from the basket (The guy didn?t have a shot either) with 1 second left on the clock. </div> Well I guess he's reverted back to doing that in San Antonio lol <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">His decision making on fould has improved.</div> Well if the total fouls he commits are about the same, then is his decision making on fouls a significant improvement? As a Hawk last season, he averaged 2.1 fouls in 18 minutes, which is the same as how he was fouling this year as a Knick, but I guess he was fouling guys shooting 18 foot jumpshots. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">He?s a hack, but I?m not getting on him too much because he?s hurt</div> I thought he learnt to not be a hack though, or was he still a hack, just to a lesser amount? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, he really did have horrible IQ. Seeing this guy actually play on different occasions, I can tell you it was pretty bad.</div> Though I definately wouldn't call his current IQ good, or even average, he was pretty bad, I remember him trying to go behind the back in a Hawks game, and also attempting to throw an alley-oop pass, but I think it was a pre-season game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">And his shot and these minor things deserve him MIP?</div> Well they sure do beat improving how you score, though it's hardly noticable, and also improving the way you foul. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don?t think so. First of all he is hyped to the extent where he can?t go unnoticed, also he made huge Also it could be argued he improved his shot more than Simmons. LeBron improved every statistical category plus had a 56 point game which is quite improved. I don?t think he improved more than James, but I guess they could.</div> Their was a screw up in the first sentence, so I got a little confused there, but I never said it won't be noticed, just said they might not give him as much props since he was a good rookie because most people expect the rookie to sophomore imrpovement, since that's normally a big year for players. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I have no idea what you?re talking about.</div> That was my fault, some spelling errors there, let me rephrase. I meant now as in after the season had progressed. Basically you just said it yourself. Previously [in your other post] you said you thought Bonner could contribute on the Raptors, but then later you say that at the beginning of the season you had no clue who the guy was. Those 2 statements don't coincide with each other, how can you have expected a guy that you had no clue who he was to contribute to a team? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Fair enough, but still from where Nazr was last year (having no chance of being on the all-star team) and where he is this year (having a shot) is a big difference.</div> Yes it is... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That?s great I?m sure not everyone in the world knew all of the info you did about the training camps, myself included. </div> Okay? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It was that he wasn?t mature enough. He was a raw 19 year old who rushed out of college too quickly.</div> Don't know if that's what it was, but could likely have been.. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">When you?re the only rookie, you have pressure. NY is looking to see what you can do and what Isiah did. I guess there equally fine though I?d choose Ariza over Bonner.</div> Their you go, it doesn't need to be justified as to why someone would pick Ariza over Bonner as if it was some travesty, and their was some huge gap in the expectations of each. It isn't like saying Emeka surprised me more than Ariza.
for the biggest rookie suprise what about Andres Nocioni he's better than matt bonner and trever ariza
I've been thinking for Most Improved Player Dan Dickau could get some recognition. He is one of the lone scorers in New Orleans now. I think he is second in point differential from one year to another.
Og15- sorry for the very late reply. I was feeling kind of lazy and didn?t feel like typing all that much <div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes, but I didn't make any statements like that, I never said Bobby Simmons was a bum last season. Hey, but if bums like Nazr can get you talking about a deal with Memphis to get Shane Battier, then it's fine with me </div> I never said you did say he was a bum. I though Nazr was a bum and you said I?m not the one picking and said you?re not picking either. What do my opinions or your opinions of his game have anything to do with the picking? Nothing. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Again, what does that have to do with anything? I said the status doesn't matter, just to an extent in that it would be harder to get it if you're playing for the Bobcats or Hawks, but you'd have a better chance on a team like the Suns or Heat.
5 <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umer remU:</div><div class="quote_post">andre igoudala for roy? he's great and all but there are 4 rookies ahead of him, (okafor, gordan, howard, and deng)</div> try 5, JR Smith
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Don?t basketball analysts look at that? I don?t think just pulling out the stat sheet is a factor because in that case, none of them would win the award.</div> To tell the truth, no they don't, they look at the improvement in statistics from one year to another, or something else very noticable that also affects the players numbsers. If a guy averages 16-5-2 one year, and the next year averages 17-5-5 and has improvements in his FG% and 3PT%, they'll hardly be looking at him for MIP, it's mostly about the numbers. Look through history at who has won it, look at last season with Randolph, it's numbers, don't have time to reply to anything else, but just replying to that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">try 5, JR Smith</div> Don't know about that one, he's scoring like 9 PPG and not doing much else, Iguodala would have as much of a chance as him with 9-5-3 and 2 steals.
Most Valuable Player - Dirk Nowitzki Defensive Player of the Year - Ben Wallace Rookie of the Year - Ben Gordon Sixth Man of the Year - Ricky Davis!!! Coach of the Year - I don't know... Van Gundy? Biggest Disappointment - Lakers Biggest Surprise - Boston Celtics, give them a year to grow! Comeback player of the year - Grant Hill!! Biggest player dissapointment - Ron Artest Biggest rookie surprise- Al Jefferson
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I said the Clippers status doesn?t matter too and you said it?s ?better than the Knicks?? as if there was a significant difference. </div> Please, don't change things around, I mentioned nothing about the record, you're the one that said "and what's the Clippers record" to any sane person, that's inferring that it's either dismall like the Hawks or Bobcats, or the Knicks have a better record. Neither of which were true, I never implied or claimed that the Clippers were a "good" team, but neither are the Knicks. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe they don?t choose Antawn Jamison or Walker because they didn?t improve and at the most barely.</div> Are you serious? So why wouldn't they pick Hill? He didn't improve either, he's a comeback player, not a most improved, Hill was a HOFer if he didn't get injured future HOF'ers don't just lose talent like that. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe you ought to take a look, you will see some different opinions</div> Well this Knicks forum is not the most credible to me, no offense, but I'd rather take a look at the one on RealGM for better opinions, as this one is fairly small and young. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">You said this and I quote ?how can he be the MOST improved player in the league, or do you not understand the emphasis on most?? Wasn?t this on Bobby and Nazr? I didn?t say he was the most, I think he deserves it more than Simmons.</div> That's my bad, but the point still stands, the debate started out as who was most improved out of Simmons and Nazr, I didn't care about your change of heart in picking Lebron as it wasn't relevant. Yes, you picked him, but it wasn't settle as to who was actually more improved. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But Olowokandi isn?t at all a dominating big man no matter how much time he got. Brand wasn?t struggling? I think going below you?re average points per game, shooting 4-11 from the field, 12% below you?re average at the line, and having 4 turnovers can be considered struggling?at least to the normal person it could.</div> did you watch the game? He didn't struggle, he had a below normal game, but played well, the effect of him moving the ball lead to his 5 assists, and a fair amount of what people would call hockey assists, where he kicked the ball out, and allowed for the third man to get an open shot. His effect on the game negated that fact that he didn't have 20 points and 10 rebounds... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Who said it was because of Nazr? The Hawks were a bad team back then. But you used one good game to dictate his season, so why not use a bad game to dictate it too? He did use those moves, but he still struggled. And for your information, it was a 10 foot jumpshot</div> It was a joke, I was being sarcastic by saying it must've been because of Nazr...How did I use one game to dictate his season, I said I saw his scoring capability in the game, and I gave examples of many games... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">They didn?t make the playoffs, and that is the most important thing. I wasn;t angry when you said anything about the Knicks, they were a bad team these past few years and I?ll be the first one to tell you that</div> Not every team that doesn't make the playoffs is a bad team. The TWolves didn't make the playoffs, but they aren't "bad". The Jazz and Blazers last season weren't bad but they didn't make the playoffs, being 9th seed and close to the playoffs isn't bad, it's just coming short. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A slow 40 year old can get dominated by a young athlete who is a bum. Tim Thomas finished second for 6th man of the year award and has a career high of 39 points. Is he not a bum? Every bum has his day. Why can?t Nazr dominate some slow 40 year old? He?s fast and athletic and I don?t know if Hakeem could handle all of that when he was many years out of his prime. The season he faced Toronto?s invincible frontcourt, he had 11 rebounds to go along with his 10 points on 3-9 shooting and his 4 fouls in 26 minutes. Antonio Davis was an all-star the season before. At least research these things before saying it, please. </div> You need to improve on your debating Tim Thomas is not a bum, I do make fun of him a lot, but he's been a very capable player througout his career, just never filling his potential. The man with the NBA body an athleticism that couldn't grab more than 4 rebounds a game, but he's always had a good shooting touch and scoring ability. Immatating me does not give you any credibility, only makes you look childish, but that was my bad, I forgot he got it in his 13-10 year not his 14-10 one. Anyways, it's a moot point, he was playing at or right below All-Star level both years anyways, so it's not that relevant. I had no reference to Toronto's froncourt being invincible, where are you getting this things from? So those a fairly good numbers, but he could always rebound, and he didn't really score that well, but okay. That didn't really say much since I never said he couldn't do good against good players, that was you... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">That game Mourning did well, but Brian Grant struggled with 4 points and 5 turnovers. I wonder just out of curiosity how many points he was assisted on? The funny thing is you failed to mention what he did against the other games against the Heat.</div> What does it matter what he did the other games? Didn't I specifically say I was counting performances against good frontcourts. If I'm going to list every single game he played in the year then what's the point of that why anyone can check that themselves? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow, those are pretty good numbers, I wonder what his FG% was, and how many points everyone else had. Why out of all of those good games he only put up 9.1 and 7.7 for the season?</div> The law of averages, why else? You wonder what his FG% was, it obviously wasn't bad since he shot 46.1% for the season, so I'd assume in the 45-48% range. Also he actually averaged 9.7 points and 7.9 rebounds, the numbers you posted are his numbers as a Knick last year. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I don?t know about your sources, but the more local sources agree with me. I remember before the season started, I was reading about every single Knick on hoophype. Nazr?good athlete, physically gifted, injury prone and terrible foot work. I saw him all the time, he wasn?t a very good player to say the least.</div> I read that too... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I am not registered to that site, so I can?t see it. Some of those things really make me laugh. I mean come on, Nazr can hit that shot like Brad Miller??? </div> Overexaggeration, he was saying he could possibly bring similar things to the table, and it was in comparison to Brad Miller as a Pacer, when he was good, but not getting the big minutes. The majority of Hawks fans thought he was good and has offense, and that's on an older and bigger board than the Knicks one. On both HawksSquak and RealGM, they didn't have much bad to say about him outside of his defense and suspect hands. Most [not all, their was this one guy], said he was good offensively and on the glass. I would say the Knick fan quotes are fine, but from other and bigger [# of posters] Knick boards, I've seen more varying of opinions concerning his play last season. You guys are a little young too, so I'd rather trust a place with more and older people... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">But that doesn?t mean anything, I wouldn?t overpay for that. </div> For what? Declerq, you'd be surprised how much centers make in this league. Jerome James is making 4.5 or so million himself, and I don't think he's ever averaged even 7 PPG. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting "About Baker":</div><div class="quote_post">Yup, yup?</div> I don't think that's how the majority felt, but that's not important anyways. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I do remember him putting up better numbers, exactly when did you start and stop?</div> I started at the beginning of the season, and stopped at the Miami game where he got hurt, I was watching that game. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Does that mean he deserves it?</div> You have a lot to learn about how players get paid in this league if you think that's overapaying for a 9-7 center. He definately deserved it, some thought he was underpaid even till he got injured. He didn't undeserve the money because he got injured, he just got unlucky. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yup, yup?</div> So did he improve his douling, or was it just the Knicks lack of emphasis on defense that made him play non-agressive and lackadasical defense? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Exactly, that would be the same thing as Simmons learning how to fight threw a screen </div> You fight through screens on defense, Simmons could already fight through screens, he just improved his ability to come off screens and turn and shoot. I think that's a little more significant that you foul decision making which is really a retarded improvement. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">A little bit of both.</div> Drop the fouling thing, it's a terrible argument. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, his IQ was not very good at all.</div> Still isn't, but it's decent, and it's always been decent, he's not a guy that uses more head than physical ability, and never will be. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Don?t basketball analysts look at that? I don?t think just pulling out the stat sheet is a factor because in that case, none of them would win the award.</div> Already replied to this, no, they don't. You need to improve both statistically, and in your skill. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Yeah, but how big? Big enough to score 56 points and break numerous record deserves much more props than a guy increasing his range.</div> The records are a little insignificant as he was going to break them anyways due to his age. Even if he only averaged 20-5-5 again this year he would've broken most of them. My expectations from him were about 23-6-6 this season with about 43% FG, I didn't expect the rise in offense. He's improved more than that, but many people expected him to be a lot better than last season, the only thing he didn't get much better was his defense. I don't think people thought it out of the way for him to score 56 points. It's not something you really think of concerning improvment, "How many points can a guy score in a game"... but Q-Rich had 50 last season and only averaged 17 PPG, so anyone scoring 20 PPG is capable of one night getting 50. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I said I didn?t have a clue about him because I don?t follow Raptors basketball. The Raptors happen to be one of your favorite teams so I wouldn?t know as much about them as you. After the game, I did some research on this Bonner guy and then I realized that he was mature to a certain extent because he was playing overseas and at age 25.</div> Okay, that's what I said too... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Okay that not everyone has as many sources as you? Or that many people follow their own teams and not really other teams? Don't know if that's what it was, but could likely have been..</div> Their wasn't supposed to be a question mark, so I was just saying okay.
I just thought of this now but shouldn't Vince Carter be considered a Comeback Player of the Year, I mean he was out a lot of last season?
Most Valuable Player - Shaquille O'Neal Defensive Player of the Year - Ben Wallace Rookie of the Year - Ben Gordon Sixth Man of the Year - Ben Gordon Most Improved Player - Dwyane Wade Coach of the Year - George Karl Biggest Disappointment - Los Angeles Lakers Biggest Surprise - Seattle Sonics
MVP: Dirk Nowitski over Steve Nash Defensive POY: Ben Wallace (old reliable. close over my boy Duncan) ROY: Emeka Okafor (prolly the best numbers, playing for the 2nd worst team) 6th Man: Ben Gordon Most Improved: Bobby Simmons (wanted to say LBJ/Flash, but this award really should go to a guy who was a nobody and made something of himself ) Coach of the Year: Mike D'Antoni (he so far has proven that a team can win without any attention to defense ) Dissapointing team: LA Lakers (well, Kobe, you wanted to be the man. Have fun! ) Biggest Surprise: Seattle Sonics (it was close over phoenix, but at the start of the year you could imagine pho getting better, but it was hard to see how sea could improve with their current roster. but they did, so they get the nod.)
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">No he wasn't, he missed 9 games and averaged 22-5-5...</div> Yeah, sorry I was thinking of the year before last when he only played 43 games. Sorry my mistake.
Most Valuable Player: Steve Nash Rookie Of The Year: Emeka Okafor Defensive Player Of The Year: Shawn Marion Most Improved Player: Bobby Simmons Sixth Man Of The Year: Ben Gordon Coach Of The Year: Mike D'Antoni
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chungster:</div><div class="quote_post">Most Valuable Player: Steve Nash Rookie Of The Year: Emeka Okafor Defensive Player Of The Year: Shawn Marion Most Improved Player: Bobby Simmons Sixth Man Of The Year: Ben Gordon Coach Of The Year: Mike D'Antoni</div> matrix has good numbers when it comes to blocks and steals, but that's not always a guarantee that a player's a top defender. gilbert arenas averages a bunch of steals too, but he's not what I'd call a stopper. marion isn't very physical, and he struggles to guard players quicker than he is. i don't like that pick very much. i think there are others more deserving...
