In Kobe and Shaq's constant hardcore hardcourt finger-wagging, I don't think Shaq has been given enough blame. Did the Lakers win the past two championships with him? No. Did they get grossly outplayed last year in the finals? Yes. Why then should the Lakers be entirely inclined to keep the highest paid player in the game who is falling short in his quest for the promised land? A change was in order, and the Lakers chose wisely. Shaq is getting to that age where centers start to fall apart. He might have another dominant year, but his days left at the top of the game are numbered. You simply can't carry 340 pounds of bulk for three and a half decades and not start to slow down. If forced to choose between the two, I'd pay almost half the going rate for the younger one with more to prove. More to prove? But Shaq has more to prove! New city, making all sorts of proclamations, dying to prove to the world he's still the best in the game. Whatever. It's Kobe who has everything to prove. Shaq is already credited as the main reason for the three-peat in LaLaLand. Those will always be Shaq-led teams in the history books. If Shaq fails to win in Miami it will be chalked up to a weak supporting cast or age or injury. Nobody will question his heart or his character. But I sure as hell do. I like Shaq, but this debate has become grossly one-sided. It was Shaq the last few years who came into camp and the regular season overweight and inconsistent. He does NOT take on a positive leadership role when he comes into camp looking like Fat Albert. Why doesn't he get some of the negative attention Allen Iverson gets, when he is arguably even lazier in his regimen outside of the playoffs? He gripes and groans to the media, but because he has a sense of humour that an angry bear might use before mauling frightened campers, he gets away with ragging on a lot of people publicly. Shaq is no saint. Just because he isn't having marital problems doesn't make him the greatest guy since Honest Abe. Kobe was very wrong to bring Shaq's name up to the police when he was being interrogated, but why does nobody judge his comments by their context? It's not like he had a microphone on, with the expectation that millions of people would be listening! The dude was scared, probably rambling after hours of dangling-ceiling-light-questioning from detectives, and was trying to act casual. He's not good at casual. We know that. He's an intense, egotistical, Kobe-first kinda guy. But aren't those conversations supposed to be sealed? And what's with the added backlash about Kobe not going to trial, that he got away with something? Let's face it ? obviously the girl who accused him had some very serious emotional issues. I feel bad for her if she believes she was raped; that is absolutely horrible. The fact remains, if there was enough proof or testimony to even frame a possible rape occurrence, that prosecution would not have relented. Everything about this case smacked of the legal system being too rigid to deal with the intricacies of life. Kobe screwed up. Probably more than once. He's a bastard for cheating on his young wife and baby. He's a jerk for taking advantage of a star-struck 19-year-old hostess who was probably swept up in the moment by Kobe's three championship rings, until she realized there was a fourth ring to be found. I don't excuse his actions for one minute, and I think he got the public pillory he deserved. But I don't care if Phil Jackson thought he was uncoachable or if Shaquille found his egotistical little basketball brother too much to deal with. Kobe Bryant is still the best basketball player in the world. Unlike what ESPN wrote about him, he IS AS GOOD a basketball player as he thinks he is. And you're right, America is about to find that out. Kobe has been villainized and vultured in every court of public and private opinion. His back is against the wall. His wife doesn't trust him, hostesses are keeping their distance from him, his teammates fear he'll rat out their steroid-use if he's pulled over for speeding, and Lamar Odom is unsure whether he'll ever touch the ball again. That's right folks, the best basketball player in the world is smashed into the ropes. And like every fabled American hero, this one is getting up. He's getting up soon. And he's gonna lay a beat down on his opponents that will inspire even the most scornful of detractors. Dump all you want on the man and his actions; the talent is real. Dude is gonna win. A championship. Himself. Soon.
Well written Tempted 2 Touch. I have the same outlook on Kobe, and the same reservations on him as well. It is really sad how fast he's gone from the new face of the NBA, to the league's top Villain. I cannot think of a road game where he's not been booed everytime his name is announced for the starting lineup. The poor guy even got booed after winning the All-Star MVP in Philly. One thing you have to love and respect about Kobe is his ability to take these negatives and turn them into positives. I admire his competitive will, I admire his work ethic, and I admire his drive to constantly improve each season. The media and critics have given Kobe a lot of headline clippings to post in his locker to motivate him for the next 5 years. Unfortunately, Kobe is only going to get a second chance when he starts winning games. As Al Davis would say, "Just win baby!"
Well all my friends used to be hardcore laker fans until Kobe broke the team up. Think about it he had 4 hall of famers and he still didn't win a championship. I think Kobe wants to be a nice guy its just that no one wants to give him a chance, and I feel sorry for him.
Simply one of the best posts ive read in a long time. Very good points and i agree. Just like it takes 2 to make a relationship to work, it takes 2 to destroy it. Noone has bigger ego's then kobe and shaq and rightfully so, but THATS what broke them up with phils added ego thrown in there also.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting t-macfur3:</div><div class="quote_post">Well all my friends used to be hardcore laker fans until Kobe broke the team up. Think about it he had 4 hall of famers and he still didn't win a championship. I think Kobe wants to be a nice guy its just that no one wants to give him a chance, and I feel sorry for him.</div> Hardcore fans don't give up on their team. I don't know your friends, but they sound more like bandwagon Laker fans than hardcore ones. The hardcore ones are the posters here still believing in the team making the playoffs and trying to salvage something to cheer for in the 12 remaining games left in the season. Having 4 Hall of Famers and not winning is more of a knock on Shaq than Kobe, don't you think? Shaq was the franchise player last year, Shaq was the guy the team was built around, Shaq was the guy with the $30million contract, and Shaq was the guy who failed the Lakers, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, and the Laker fans in the playoffs against the Detroit Pistons.
I agree with Shape. Im glad your friends are no longer Laker fans. They dont deserve to be. Great post made. I have similar views about the situation. Kobe will be back.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Hardcore fans don't give up on their team. I don't know your friends, but they sound more like bandwagon Laker fans than hardcore ones. The hardcore ones are the posters here still believing in the team making the playoffs and trying to salvage something to cheer for in the 12 remaining games left in the season. Having 4 Hall of Famers and not winning is more of a knock on Shaq than Kobe, don't you think? Shaq was the franchise player last year, Shaq was the guy the team was built around, Shaq was the guy with the $30million contract, and Shaq was the guy who failed the Lakers, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, and the Laker fans in the playoffs against the Detroit Pistons.</div> I have missed 1 laker game this season....thats a hardcore fan.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting t-macfur3:</div><div class="quote_post">Well all my friends used to be hardcore laker fans until Kobe broke the team up. Think about it he had 4 hall of famers and he still didn't win a championship. I think Kobe wants to be a nice guy its just that no one wants to give him a chance, and I feel sorry for him.</div> Your friends may be hardcore Shaq fans.
I watch every laker game like its the last game of the season, i watch every game like the game means something. I boo the bad calls and i go crazy for the good solid basketball plays. The playoffs wont be the same, but im a basketball fan and ill be rooting for the next team (Wizards and Suns). Im excited for this offseason because LA will have a chance to fix some of the problems and start over fresh for the upcoming season. You cant rise back to the top unless youve been knocked to the ground, and LA have been knocked down and walked on this season....it can only get better i asure you and thats why im excited... LA has seen rough times just like any other team, but LA always comes back.......ALWAYS....just look at the ceiling of the staples center. -DMK
I think Kobe has grown complacent. Hes not a leader as in he doesnt have the passion to will his team to become greater. Just doesnt seem to want to win as much as other star players. Only cares about numbers of points and dollars
Tempted2Touch: I love how you completely brown nose Kobe in this thread and then you start another thread in which you completely trash talk Shaq. Then everyone is like "oooh" and "ahhh" "what a great post" and then on the Shaq thread those same "oooh" and "ahhh" people don't defend the player who was the real force behind the 3 titles. No real Laker fan should be dissing the guy who lead the Lakers to 3 titles especially after he's enjoying success with his new team and Kobe's Lakers won't make the playoffs this season. Be happy he helped win those 3 titles because there's another team in L.A., as well as 3/4s of the NBA, that would kill for just one of those titles you take for granted.
yeah, i agree. shaq was part of the three-peat laker team. if i were a laker fan, i wouldn't be hating him, especially since he's not the only problem. i am an orlando magic fan, and i never hated shaq for leaving. i was dissapointed, but i knew either he or penny would leave someday. he left, but i never hated; i respect him for playing so well with penny and the team and reaching the NBA finals. i know he's good, and so was penny and he still would be if it weren't for the injuries. no one is better than the other. both of them play well together and that's what should matter. the case for kobe and shaq is the same. do you think shaq would win w/o kobe, or kobe would win w/o shaq? personally, i don't. we shouldn't give one or the other full credit. no one is better than the other. shaq is kind of more favored to win this year, because he is in a good team. kobe, on the other hand, is unlucky this year, because LA is somehow rebuilding. we all hate the fact that the laker team that won three championships was broken up, but there souldn't be any hate. it was great for LA while it lasted, now let's all move on. we can't argue about shaq's greatness. he is one of the best, period. he's physically gifted, and he has skills. plus he's very big. i'd take him over anyone, evan at his age. now about kobe, i don't hate him, but some "basketball" fanatics do. and i think it's unfair to him. ain't someone innocent until proven guilty? kobe is a great ball player IMO. he's only human. people make mistakes, plus he's young. what's important is how he picks himself up and performs inspite of all the stuff he's going through. and so far, so good.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tempted 2 Touch:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe was very wrong to bring Shaq's name up to the police when he was being interrogated, but why does nobody judge his comments by their context? It's not like he had a microphone on, with the expectation that millions of people would be listening! The dude was scared, probably rambling after hours of dangling-ceiling-light-questioning from detectives, and was trying to act casual. He's not good at casual. We know that. He's an intense, egotistical, Kobe-first kinda guy. But aren't those conversations supposed to be sealed? </div> I agree with you that Shaq should get a lot more of the blame for the break up, but it is no suprise. The media prefer Shaq because he's a better interview and the player's prefer Shaq because 2/3 of them want to be his teammate (and probably much less want to be Kobe's). I don't agree with your logic that people should forgive Kobe for snitching out his teammate because he thought that nobody would find out he's a snitch. Clearly Kobe is the best player on the planet, but I am worried that he will never be able to attract the free agents necessary to contend for a title again. Trust is vital to the success of a team. Among a certain segment of American culture selling out your friend to the police is just about the worst offense you can commit. If the posturing of hip hop musicians is to be believed it's worse than murder. I love the Laker's and I love watching Kobe play, but if I step back and think about it I have to admit that I wouldn't want to be his teammate. Hopefully, this will blow over and people will forget about his snitching by the time the Lakers get some cap space. Or, maybe they can make a run at Yao in 07 since he comes from an authortarian country and has experience with T-Mac.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">Tempted2Touch: I love how you completely brown nose Kobe in this thread and then you start another thread in which you completely trash talk Shaq. Then everyone is like "oooh" and "ahhh" "what a great post" and then on the Shaq thread those same "oooh" and "ahhh" people don't defend the player who was the real force behind the 3 titles. No real Laker fan should be dissing the guy who lead the Lakers to 3 titles especially after he's enjoying success with his new team and Kobe's Lakers won't make the playoffs this season. Be happy he helped win those 3 titles because there's another team in L.A., as well as 3/4s of the NBA, that would kill for just one of those titles you take for granted.</div> Exactly what I was going to say. Why do LA fans keep hating on Shaq? If it wasn't for him, those three golden trophies would be somewhere else. It is obvious now that Kobe can't win a championship by himself. $#!+, we don't know if Kobe can even make the playoffs! Do we know if Shaq could win a championship all by himself too? No, we don't. But one thing is for sure. Shaq is doing a hell of a lot better than Kobe. So stop hating on Shaq, just because you (Laker fans) won't win another championship for awhile. Greedy folks...already won three in the last 5 years...now your pissed because you won't win another one without Shaq. Get over it, move on. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I love lakers. I don't love kobe. (wasn't directly quoted, due to edit)</div> Explains why your one of your favorite players is Kobe, and why your avatar features Kobe.
we all appreciate what Shaq did for us in geting the 3 rings. but the reason why we lakers fans are so upset with him was because he became lazy and overweight and he still had the balls to ask for a raise in his contract. and even after leaving LA he still takes potshots at the LA organization. can you honestly tell me that if a lazy and overweight star left your team because they couldnt pay him more and takes potshots at your team, wouldnt make you upset at him?
Maybe if the lazy overweight man was shown that the organization was ready to commit to him, he would commit to them as well. My stance on this issue is that LA clearly chose the wrong man, but I do love this post. Kobe had nothing to gain by dropping shaqs name to the cops, so I believe what he said was true. Shaq is seen as the most friendly and lovable characters in the NBA, and that will never change. Until Kobe wins a ring, this argument will always be this one sided. But unfortunately for him, they will have to get him some high priced help, and that will lead us right back to the "Kobe can't do it on his own" argument. Simply, Kobe will never get away from this situation, no matter what he does
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting yanix:</div><div class="quote_post">can you honestly tell me that if a lazy and overweight star left your team because they couldnt pay him more and takes potshots at your team, wouldnt make you upset at him?</div> No, I'd be upset at the Lakers organization. That lazy and overweight player won you three championships. So your lovely Lakers couldn't give him what he wants? Now you guys won't get another championship until LA gets a big man. Shaq keeps taking pot/cheap shots at the Lakers because they could've won another ring for themselves, but those jerks up there wouldn't make room for him. So, he goes somewhere else where he can get a championship. Seriously, what are you guys whining about? <font color="DarkRed">Edited for cursing by Shapecity-- Read the guidelines we do not tolerate profanity here. </font>
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Maybe if the lazy overweight man was shown that the organization was ready to commit to him, he would commit to them as well.</div> how could the organization commit to a lazy overweight man? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Shaq is seen as the most friendly and lovable characters in the NBA, and that will never change.</div> friendly and lovable? to the common NBA bandwaggoner maybe. but to those that know better i dont think so. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">No, I'd be upset at the Lakers organization. That lazy and overweight player won you three championships. So your lovely Lakers couldn't give him what he wants? Now you guys won't get another championship until LA gets a big man. </div> yes shaq did help us win the 3 rings but when it was clear that the Kobe Shaq connection wasnt working anymore the organization had to make a decision. shaq's work ethic had become questionable and he continously whined about the lakers game. it was obvious that shaq wanted Buss to decide between them and Kobe. keep the 32 yr old shaq who's been through a lot of injuries and continue to make the playoffs in the next 2 to 5 yrs or keep the 26 yr old Kobe who's work ethic is among the best and will only continue to improve over time? Buss decided to invest in Kobe, he decided to keep Kobe and build around him a playoff team for the next 10-14 yrs.
