<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The Lakers are lousy and therefore that must mean Kobe Bryant has stopped being one of the 10 best players in the NBA? Huh? It is a hysterical proposition -- hysterical as both a gross overreaction and as something ludicrously funny. Call Bryant selfish if you'd like. Eliminate him from your husband-of-the-year finalists. Admit his life is tougher (no duh!) without Shaquille O'Neal. But don't surmise he is washed up as an elite player at age 26. That's baseless and dumb. I doubt there is a single NBA coach or GM who would agree with Le Balone on this one, if only for fear of being hooted down and made to wear a dunce cap. Bryant made the All-Star team, again, and deservedly. He is second in the league, averaging 27.7 points. A new survey of players in the current Sports Illustrated rates Bryant's explosive first step second-best to Allen Iverson's. Oh, and Bryant ranks ninth league-wide (just ahead of Dwyane Wade) in the league's own ''efficiency ratings,'' a complicated formula that digests all of a player's positive and negative stats and arrives at overall impact.</div> Source
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh, and Bryant ranks ninth league-wide (just ahead of Dwyane Wade) in the league's own ''efficiency ratings,'' a complicated formula that digests all of a player's positive and negative stats and arrives at overall impact. </div> Efficiency is a weak stat, especially when you don't use PER 48 minutes, but per minute, Kobe ranks 17th, right behind Wade at 16th. It also doesn't factor in things like defense, clutch ability etc, a decent stat, but not significant. Anyways, I don't know what idiots are saying Kobe is not Top 10, for the season, yea that's okay with the lack of teams sucess, and injuries, but just in general, that's laughable to say he's not.
One season doesn't drop you out of top 10, you can still argue him being top 5. As for him having the 2nd most explosive first step..I could seriously argue a case for Arenas, who in my eyes, is the fastest player in the league once he makes up his mind.
there was a highlite from last nights game that i think is indicative of why the lakers are losing...kobe trying to go behind the back in 3 defender traffic. kobe nut huggers will cry bloody murder for saying it, but he does NOT pass the ball enough
^^^ Kobe was averaging well over 6 assists from the shooting guard spot ALL SEASON.......thats better then the majority of the leagues point guards little dun.
of course he avg's 6 dimes...look at how much he handles the ball. as much as any point guard in the league
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">there was a highlite from last nights game that i think is indicative of why the lakers are losing...kobe trying to go behind the back in 3 defender traffic. kobe nut huggers will cry bloody murder for saying it, but he does NOT pass the ball enough</div> He has those moments where you want to ring his neck for those showboating plays or forcing up shots. However, he doesn't play an entire game with reckless abandonment like those highlights show. The Lakers are struggling for a lot of reasons, of course Kobe Bryant is to be blamed for some of that especially since he's the leader of the team. I think it's ubsurd to drop him out of the top 10 players in the league though. As for Kobe not passing enough, I don't think that's best for the team anyways. Kobe is not a point guard by any means, and he's not a playmaker in the mold of a LeBron James. Kobe is not going to make his team better or the players around him better by passing the ball. He makes them better by scoring the ball in the post and attacking the rim. Once the defense starts doubling him and cheating to his side, then the floor opens up a lot more for the rest of his teammates. He's a good enough passer in those situations, but he's not good at setting up an offense and trying to create off the dribble. He's better at trying to be the scorer and the rest of his teammates picking up scraps from missed shots, tip ins, or when he gets them a wide open look.
Look, I have watched every game this season, and I can tell you when his team mates arn't making their shots outside, he isn't passing to them, when they are making their shots, he is.....you see games were he has 10+ assists, and games where he has 3- assists. It all depends on if his team mates are making their shots because they don't cut to the basket, their all three point shooters. So for Kobe, saying he doesn't pass enough, it is dictated by how his team mates are shooting because they all are long range three bombers....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">He has those moments where you want to ring his neck for those showboating plays or forcing up shots. However, he doesn't play an entire game with reckless abandonment like those highlights show. The Lakers are struggling for a lot of reasons, of course Kobe Bryant is to be blamed for some of that especially since he's the leader of the team. I think it's ubsurd to drop him out of the top 10 players in the league though. </div> certainly do agree with that though. as much as im NOT a fan of kobe, i certainly recognize that he's a great talent. top 10 for sure...arguably top 5 <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> As for Kobe not passing enough, I don't think that's best for the team anyways. Kobe is not a point guard by any means, and he's not a playmaker in the mold of a LeBron James. Kobe is not going to make his team better or the players around him better by passing the ball. He makes them better by scoring the ball in the post and attacking the rim. Once the defense starts doubling him and cheating to his side, then the floor opens up a lot more for the rest of his teammates. He's a good enough passer in those situations, but he's not good at setting up an offense and trying to create off the dribble. He's better at trying to be the scorer and the rest of his teammates picking up scraps from missed shots, tip ins, or when he gets them a wide open look.</div> i dont see why not...iv seen kobe make some unbelievable passes over the year...he's worked on so many areas of his game and improved them...playmaking doesnt exactly seem like a huge jump. drive and kick...its not something he needs to learn...just something he needs to DO more.
^^ Billabong answered that part of the question. In Cleveland you're seeing the same thing with LeBron. He enjoys creating offense, but he's having to learn to be more of scorer now because his teammates are not getting it done for him. Same with Iverson in Philly, he tries to get his teammates going, but when they don't get it done, Iverson throws the playbook out the window and does it on his own.
Kobe Bryant Kobe is still top 5, both in terms of versatility, and talent. To say that he is not is absurd. The numbers, the presence, everything is there, just not the victories. If the Lakers were still in the playoffs, he would be an MVP candidate by his numbers alone. Most Versatile(Not In Order) 1. Kevin Garnett 2. Lebron James 3. Tracy McGrady 4. Kobe Bryant 5. Jason Kidd Best Players(Talent, Value, Presence, In Order In My Opinion) 1. Shaquille O'Neal 2. Tim Duncan 3. Kevin Garnett 4. Tracy McGrady 5. Kobe Bryant MVP(For this season) 1. Shaquille O'Neal 2. Steve Nash
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">I think LeBron is better than Kobe, and Jason Kidd is more versatile than Bryant.</div> Really? What makes him better than Kobe? What makes JKidd more versatile? You can say all these comments, but if you have no reasons, why should anyone care what you say. Personally, I don't think LeBron is better than Kobe. LeBron has struggled to keep his team in the hunt in a weaker conference. He's got nice role players alongside him in McInnis, Snow, Z, Gooden. Yet, he struggles to make the playoffs? So personally, I don't see how you can call him better than Kobe at this stage in his career. It's not exactly fair. Cause, if you put the Lakers in the East and the Cavs out West, they'd be in opposite places right now, guaranteed (well, maybe not, but it's highly likely). And how is JKidd more versatile? Explain on this please. Cause he makes teammates better? Well, he's a point guard, that's what he's supposed to do. You can make an easy case as he's a better passer than him, but that's about all. They're each good rebounders for a guard, each great defenders, however, Kobe is a much more explosive player. Beyond that, he does have great passing skills. I don't believe that JKidd is more versatile at all. Kobe can do everything and do everything well. Kidd can do pretty much anything but shoot.
Jkidd more versitile? nope. Hes a true PG...nothing more, he has a soft jumper and bad wheels to boot. Tmac, not better all around then kobe either....thought we already been through this one.
Kidd is more versatile because he rebounds better, passes better, defends better (can make a case for both going either way). Not to mention Kidd has the most triple double's in the league. Only thing Kobe has on Kidd pretty much is shooting (although Kobe isn't that great a shooter either) and scoring. Same with LeBron. James can do almost everything better than Kobe except defend.
lol i respect those opinions, its your right...but i disagree. Kobes shot is lightyears beyond Kidds easily, Kobe DEMANDS a good double team or he will dice any defender in the league basically, Kidd gets left wide open on many jumpers (granted he is the best pg in the league imo) and he misses lots. Kidds defense is nowhere near kobe's, and to sum it all up....only thing kidd has over kobe is, passing and court vision...thats all. IMO of course
^^ I totally agree about Kobe being better than Kidd. Kidd in no way plays better D than Kobe. When was the last time Kidd has done anything clutch? err? He is a terrific PG but not anywhere as versitile as Kobe. And his NETs even with VC are not doing very well... As for LB being better? Comparing both at 20, I think LB has the advantage. But head to head right now? Kobe is better at this point. Give Kobe the Cavs lineup, minus LB, and watch that team shine. LB has a much better supporting cast than Kobe definately. And yes, even with the support, tLB is still struggling to win games with the CAVs.
The Herald does this a lot, they pit Greg Cote and Dan Le Betard to debate a topic ("are the Heat legit title contenders?", "Will the Heat win the title this year?" for example). Here was Dan Le Betard's rebuttal: Dan Le Batard | When you don't lift team, Kobe, you're not elite <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe Bryant is no longer one of the 10 best basketball players in the world. He remains exceptional, just not elite. He falls somewhere in the 11-to-20 range - in the same group with Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson and Vince Carter but behind Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Dirk Nowitzki, Jermaine O'Neal, Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash, Tracy McGrady and, as Chicago Bulls coach Scott Skiles said last week, Dwyane Wade. Basketball isn't like baseball or football. One player can very much alter the look of an entire team, and make it a winner by himself if he's good enough. That's why Garnett and Shaq and Duncan always have winning records, no matter the supporting cast. You'll find very few top 10 talents in the history of basketball with a record as bad as the one Bryant's Lakers have this season.</div> I still think Kobe is a top 10 player even after this season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">Kidd is more versatile because he rebounds better, passes better, defends better (can make a case for both going either way). Not to mention Kidd has the most triple double's in the league. Only thing Kobe has on Kidd pretty much is shooting (although Kobe isn't that great a shooter either) and scoring. Same with LeBron. James can do almost everything better than Kobe except defend.</div> Actually, Kobe is a good shooter. You think just because he's had a rough shooting season, it deems him a bad shooter? Consider the amount of double teams that are thrown at him and the amount of tough shots he has to throw up cause either no one is hitting open ones or no one is open in general, he's not a bad shooter. 43% is fairly respectable considering the way that he started off the season shooting the ball (30%ile). Beyond that, he's a 45% career shooter, 33% career from the arc, and 83% career from the line. I don't see how you can say that he's a bad shooter. Also, how does trip-dubs make you a more versatile player. Personally, when I think versatile, I think of a person who can do everything and do everything well. Beyond that, a person who can play numerous positions. Both of which Kobe is capable of doing. He's a great rebounder, passer, scorer, and defender. Beyond that, he is capable of playing pg, sg, or sf depending on what his team needs him to do. To me, it's easy to see that Kobe is the more versatile player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Show:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe is still top 5, both in terms of versatility, and talent. To say that he is not is absurd. The numbers, the presence, everything is there, just not the victories. If the Lakers were still in the playoffs, he would be an MVP candidate by his numbers alone. Most Versatile(Not In Order) 1. Kevin Garnett 2. Lebron James 3. Tracy McGrady 4. Kobe Bryant 5. Jason Kidd Best Players(Talent, Value, Presence, In Order In My Opinion) 1. Shaquille O'Neal 2. Tim Duncan 3. Kevin Garnett 4. Tracy McGrady 5. Kobe Bryant MVP(For this season) 1. Shaquille O'Neal 2. Steve Nash</div> isnt vince suppsosed to be in there? if u are talking about this season. look at new jersey before the carter trade and look at them now. he's definetly top 5. KG shouldnt even be there. he got 2 great stars cassel and spree playing aside him plus olokawkandi and still missed da playoff. kobe shouldnt even be there wut has he done this year? Nothing. What did Vince carter do? Alot helping a team that had no hope what so ever to make a playoff, 1 game back for #8 spot behind philly, and hopefully make the playoff. Vince outplayed Kobe this year like it or not since he got traded.
