Commisioner David Stern wants NBA age limit raised to 20. Jermaine O'Neal calls it racist. I completely disagree with raising the age limit. If Maria Sharapova can become a professional tennis player at age 13 and make millions of dollars why can't a 18 year old kid from the ghetto? The NBA would be denying a person the right to make a living how they want to. <font color="Red">It's simply Un-American</font>. LINK http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2035132 SHOULD THE NBA RAISE THE AGE LIMIT TO 20 ?
Simply no. High schoolers are becoming more sure things than ever before. Look at this year. Howard, the 2 Smiths, Telfair. They have all been solid in starter roles.
No, for what reason would the NBA need to change the limit. In my opinion it's not having much of a negative impact on the league besides the fact that some of the high schoolers don't make it then that's their problem. When high schoolers come out a lot of the time they are ready to play so why not let them play? Besides at 18 you are legally an adult so why couldn?t you play in the league. Like JO said, if you can go to Iraq at 18 you should be able to play professional ball at 18.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting heatfan:</div><div class="quote_post">Jermaine O'Neal calls it racist.</div> lol i dont understand that, was he joking? anyways, i think that's incredibly ignorant of the NBA. look at lebron james, chris bosh, and many more. chris bosh just turned 21 a few weeks ago and lebron isn't even legal to drink yet. but look at how they play. they shouldnt do this..it'll help the young players to learn how to play in the league easier. plus what happens if they lose the good players to some other league?
I disagree with the limit. There are too many talent laden kids who can have a successful NBA career without having to go to college. Look at LeBron, Telfair, Howard, the Smith's, etc. It'd just be bad for the league.
Now I know why Jermaine O'Neal couldn't get into college. Because he's as dumb as a brick. His accusations are based on outdated stereotypes and are actually ten times more racist than anything the NBA is trying to do. This is BS.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> "You don't hear about it in baseball or hockey. To say you have to be 20, 21 to get in the league, it's unconstitutional. If I can go to the U.S. Army and fight the war at 18 why can't you play basketball for 48 minutes?" O'Neal said.</div> Well, Jermaine (you moron), nobody's stopping anybody from playing basketball here. There are other courts besides the NBA ones. If a guy is good enough to make the NBA, he is still left with two great options. He can go to college for free or he can play in Europe for 2 years and make hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm sorry, but us normal people (with brains in our heads) find your comments and accusations offensive. Oh the horror! You mean we have to go to a college for free?? Either that or we go on a 2 year European vacation while pulling in 6 figures??? Please.
No, Some of the best players can come out of high school such as the LeBrons, the Malones, the Dawkins'. By doing this, it's denying some of the young talents that are good enough to play in the NBA to live their dream, and hopefully earn a better living so that they can support their families. If I was living a rough life where I lived and the only way I could help me and my family move on to bigger and better things was my great basketball talent and I was lets say...19, because if they the age limit, it's like saying that they want you to stay in the ghetto, which would be kind of hard on you. So no, they shouldn't raise the age limit, keep it the way it is.
I Totally Disagree!! As Said Before, I Think Player'z Are Just Trying 2 Make A Living And Support Their Family'z. So I Disagree With The Whole Thing.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post"> Well, Jermaine (you moron), nobody's stopping anybody from playing basketball here. There are other courts besides the NBA ones. If a guy is good enough to make the NBA, he is still left with two great options. He can go to college for free or he can play in Europe for 2 years and make hundreds of thousands of dollars. I'm sorry, but us normal people (with brains in our heads) find your comments and accusations offensive. Oh the horror! You mean we have to go to a college for free?? Either that or we go on a 2 year European vacation while pulling in 6 figures??? Please. </div> I agree that the army analogy doesn't make a bit of difference. The NBA is free to impose whatever age restrictions it wants. Last time I checked, "right to be an NBA player" was not in the Constitution. As long as the NBA isn't discriminating based on race, then it's legal. Of course, some will look at the fact that the vast, vast majority of American kids who try to enter the NBA draft out of highschool are black. Does THAT make it an indirect form of racial discimination, even if its not a conscious racist act? I can understand where he's coming from when he mentions race as a component to this issue. What else is separating basketball from baseball or hockey or golf other than the fact that a majortiy of kids entering the draft at 18/19 years old are black? I definitely think that David Stern is concerned with the NBA image in the minds of consumers. He senses that the league's popularity could be dwindling and the immaturity of overall culture of incoming players is a part of that. The NBA's problem is that its chief consumer is "White America" whereas it's product is inherently geared towards "Black America." He wants to lessen that gap, in a sense, by ensuring more and more incoming players have been properly institutionalized (white-washed?) in a university setting. Now, I'm sure all this isn't up front in his thinking, but it's definitely in the background.
Age Limit I am Black, and admit that Jermaine O'Neal's race card ploy is typical liberal garbage. I am not Republican, but I am not Democrat either, and this argument has political overtones. Tennis, Golf and other sports are not the same arenas as Basketball. Sure from an ethics standpoint you could vouch for the option to go pro out of high school, but the the life is different. Basketball is the most popular sport in the world besides soccer, and is more heavily covered by the media than any other sport around the world. Do I think there should be an age limit, YES, but do I think it should be an absolute, NO. There should be special hardship cases that go through intense evalution by the League before the acceptance of the players petition to enter into the draft. The League needs to have major psyche evaluations for these kids before during the evalution process to see where they are at mentally, emotionally. How they manage themselves, how they talk, how they live. Like any other profession, there is an order to maintain. Lebron James is a special case because he was ready physically and mentally from the get go, but that is not the majority. Let's be real, most high school kids, especially males in this country are extremely shallow, ignorant, and childless. With the advent of the negative social changes in this nation over the past 30 years, kids have gotten worse as people, lack respect for elders, authorities, and most importantly, themselves. Many act as if everything should be handed to them on a silver platter just because they breath air. Many of these kids have never had money or anything in life, grew up without fathers, or father figures, and you expect to give them millions of dollars, with the fame that goes along with it, and expect them to handle it well? You wonder why there is so much weed, babies out of wedlock and/or serious relationships and other ignorant behavior going on in the league. They do not know how to think, how to feel, how to act, other than what they have been exposed to, all they know is Basketball, and that underlies a very deep problem that plagues many youth in our society. They are too limited as human beings. Just because you are young does not give you an excuse to act and lively ignorantly. Just because that you have a 40+inch vertical, are 6'10 and 250 pounds does not mean you should be in this league. But most of these brothers are too immature and ignorant to realize that. All they would be thinking about is how much they could ice, cars and houses they could buy, parties they can go to, or how many women they could get(Typical young males) other than the few who genuinely use their money and fame wisely to benifit their families, their community, and themselves. The movie "The Cookout" is a prime example of this. Even though the movie was blatently sterotypical, much of it concerning athletes spending was true, hooking up with a gold diggers, and other not so wise behavior. I expect for the drug usage, sex scandals, blatent misspending, and other arrogant and ignorant behavior that reinforces Black sterotypes to go up by allowing high school kids to come in more without more analysis. POINT: If you are not a man who can take care of himself, make a considerable impact, and respresent his team, his organization, his league, his family, and most importantly himself eloquently, and respectively, you have NO BUSINESS in this League, PERIOD!
Turning this into a racial issue is ignorance on Jermaine O'neal's part. The age limit doesn't just effect African Americans, it effects International talent just the same. If Jermaine O'neal thinks the NBA is driven by racism, why does he play for the league? The NBA is not the only place to earn a living playing basketball. This makes Jermaine O'neal quite the hypocrite and cashing in his multi-million dollar contract makes him a sellout.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Show:</div><div class="quote_post"> TheTennis, Golf and other sports are not the same arenas as Basketball. Sure from an ethics standpoint you could vouch for the option to go pro out of high school, but the the life is different. Basketball is the most popular sport in the world besides soccer, and is more heavily covered by the media than any other sport around the world.</div> So you're saying since basketball is more popular, it deserves more attention? Soccer is more popular than basketball at a global level. And there are little kids in the pro leagues. Do you think that should change as well? Baseball is just as popular as basketball in the US. Should it have an age limit as well? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Show:</div><div class="quote_post">Do I think there should be an age limit, yes, but do I think it should be an absolute, no. There should be special hardship cases that go through intense evalution by the League before the acceptance of the players petition to enter into the draft.</div> So, basically underage players should go through a long application process if they want to be eligible? And who makes the final decision on who gets in? <div class="quote_poster">Quoting The Show:</div><div class="quote_post">Lebron James is a special case because he was ready physically and mentally from the get go, but that is not the majority. </div> I believe LeBron had a kid out of wedlock. Jordan and Magic cheated on their wives. You could probably go through every famous basketball player and list unethical things they've been able to do simply because of their status as famous, rich ball players. It's not so simple to separate the good seeds from the bad seeds. And psychology is hardly a science. Shouldn't the eligibility rules be a bit more concrete than depending on wishy-washy pscychological evaluations? And if owners are so deadset about applying this age limit, why do they keep drafting kids out of high school? I don't understand why the Players Association has to agree to anything . The owner's can come to their own agreement that they won't sign anyone under 20 or whatever, and that's that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">Turning this into a racial issue is ignorance on Jermaine O'neal's part. The age limit doesn't just effect African Americans, it effects International talent just the same. If Jermaine O'neal thinks the NBA is driven by racism, why does he play for the league? The NBA is not the only place to earn a living playing basketball. This makes Jermaine O'neal quite the hypocrite and cashing in his multi-million dollar contract makes him a sellout.</div> I think that's a bit unfair. He merely meant that there's a race component to it that bothers him, and I definitely agree. He's not stating the league is racist or that the commissioner is racist. But clearly, the NBA is a business and it is driven by economics considerations. And if the consumers are turned off by kids from inner-cities (for the most part, black kids) without much education getting millions of dollars to play a game, the NBA is going to need to recognize that and try to deal with it. That's simply a reality which Jermaine is referring to. He's not being a hypocrite by doing so. By that argument, anyone who has any problems with management in their company is a hypocrite for continuing to work and receive checks from them. That doesn't make much sense, does it?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">I think that's a bit unfair. He merely meant that there's a race component to it that bothers him, and I definitely agree. He's not stating the league is racist or that the commissioner is racist. But clearly, the NBA is a business and it is driven by economics considerations. And if the consumers are turned off by kids from inner-cities (for the most part, black kids) without much education getting millions of dollars to play a game, the NBA is going to need to recognize that and try to deal with it. That's simply a reality which Jermaine is referring to. He's not being a hypocrite by doing so. By that argument, anyone who has any problems with management in their company is a hypocrite for continuing to work and receive checks from them. That doesn't make much sense, does it?</div> I said <u>driven</u> by racism (referring to this age change), not that the league or Stern are racists. I don't see what age and race have to do with one another in this decision. If the vast majority of kids jumping to the pros was a specific race, I could understand the argument, but that's not the case in the NBA. There have been a considerable amount of International propects jumping to the pros under 20. I also don't agree the NBA is losing money with more high school players making the jump. In fact, I think the NBA is making more money. Look at the top jersey sales, LeBron tops the charts. Stern is even using him to market the NBA, along with other former high school players who jumped to the NBA, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, & Kobe Bryant. Consumers are not turned off at all by these players. As for your analogy, I think 'any kind of problem' is too, broad a statement. A person who continues to work for a racist person is a hypocrite to stay. For the record I don't agree with an age limit being set. I think any person has the right for the opportunity to seek a job in the NBA at 18. Just like I have the opportunity to walk into any company and apply their once I'm 18.
Jermaine O'Neal is actually making me like the idea of an age limit even more. With an age limit, you'd have less uneducated fools like Jermaine O'Neal in the league. Either way, he really did need some years in college to develop into the player that he is now. He'd be the same dominant Jermaine O'Neal that he is now had he gone to college. He just would have had much more success early on instead of wasting a perfectly good roster spot at Portland. I don't understand this argument that most High School early entries are black men, so thus the NBA is trying to keep the black man down. Well, incase you haven't noticed, most NBA players in general are black men, both from the college and High School level. There's even a great deal of international black men in the NBA. The fact of the matter is that the NBA is predominantly black sport now. Will every negative thing that happens to the NBA's players now be blamed on racism? Anyway, I loved your post, The Show, and I agree what you said about players needing to be mature and mentally able to handle the pressures of the NBA. I think college would really play a large role in maturing these players though if they choose to go to the right school. Players like Shane Battier, Steve Smith, P.J. Brown, and Grant Hill, who are commonly seen as the NBA's more mature and respectable players, all went to college and you have to think that it helped them mature into the great individuals that they've become. And durvasa, I wouldn't suggest that maturing these players is white-washing them. That would imply that the only mature people in this world are white. I'd call it more growing up that being white-washed.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The league estimates its merchandising revenues will rise to at least $3.3 billion in gross sales, which could mark the first time that the NBA surpasses the NFL in licensed product sales. In 2003, NFL-licensed items grossed $3.2 billion, with the NBA and Major League Baseball pulling in $3 billion, according to the upcoming issue of License! Magazine.</div> Source Top Sales of Jerseys 1. LeBron - enterend NBA under 20 2. Carmelo - enterend NBA under 20 3. Marbury - enterend NBA under 20 4. T-Mac - enterend NBA under 20 5. Iverson 6. Duncan 7. Kobe - enterend NBA under 20 5 out of the 7 top jersey sales are from players who enterend NBA under 20. The NBA is hardly losing revenue because of younger players in the league.
An African-American dominated league, racist? BS. No way, that is nothing but ignorance on Jermaine's part. As for the age limit, I don't agree with it. If they set an age limit for the NBA, why not up the age limit to enter the military? 18 to go and die in for your country, but you can't be 18 and play basketball for 48 minutes? That is ridiculous.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post"> Source Top Sales of Jerseys 1. LeBron - enterend NBA under 20 2. Carmelo - enterend NBA under 20 3. Marbury - enterend NBA under 20 4. T-Mac - enterend NBA under 20 5. Iverson 6. Duncan 7. Kobe - enterend NBA under 20 5 out of the 7 top jersey sales are from players who enterend NBA under 20. The NBA is hardly losing revenue because of younger players in the league.</div> I have to agree with shapecity on this one. It seems to me that while I was growing up, all of my white fans liked Michael Jordan, Shawn Kemp, Glenn Robinson, Gary Payton, and the likes but didn't take as much interest in John Stockton or Jason Kidd. When watching a basketball game, I doubt many white people let the color of an opposing player's skin determine who they root for. White people, in fact, can be very interested in black culture. How do you explain the majority of rap albums being bought by white teenagers if this is not true? Besides, these statistics say it all. Carmelo Anthony is not one of the thirty best players in the NBA (I know it's arguable, but I don't want to stray off topic on that), yet his jersey sale is ranked #2. Marbury is arguably not even one of the top five point guards in the NBA, yet his jersey is ranked #5. Where's Dirk Nowitzki or Jason Kidd on that list? If the NBA's fans like the white players better, then shouldn't they top the list over Carmelo Anthony and Stephon Marbury?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting shapecity:</div><div class="quote_post">I said <u>driven</u> by racism (referring to this age change), not that the league or Stern are racists. I don't see what age and race have to do with one another in this decision. If the vast majority of kids jumping to the pros was a specific race, I could understand the argument, but that's not the case in the NBA. There have been a considerable amount of International propects jumping to the pros under 20. </div> Even taking into account the growing influx of foreign players, I'd expect that most players in the league under 20 are black Americans with relatively poor educational backgrounds. What are David Stern's reasons for wanting the age limit? I honestly believe it goes deeper than just the quality of the game. The game's quality has noticeably increased between last and this year, despite the league constantly getting younger. There is noticeable disenchantment with the NBA from middle-America in recent years, and one can't ignore the possibility of a racist undercurrent being a factor in that. It is this dwindling appeal of the NBA amongst key consumer demographics which I believe is partly driving the move to impose an age limit. Again, this is a case of management reacting to consumers who dislike the game for (to some degree) racist reasons. It's like a movie producer deciding not to hire to people of different races for the romantic leads for fear of a backlash (a business consideration), and the director complaining about it. He's not a hypocrite for staying with the film and retaining his paycheck, is he? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I also don't agree the NBA is losing money with more high school players making the jump. In fact, I think the NBA is making more money. Look at the top jersey sales, LeBron tops the charts. Stern is even using him to market the NBA, along with other former high school players who jumped to the NBA, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, & Kobe Bryant. Consumers are not turned off at all by these players. </div> I disagree, though I don't have numbers to back it up. But I frequently come across people who say they dislike the NBA because its full of "thugs" and spoiled, overpaid kids. Now, to me, and I don't mean to generalize, but I think a lot of people who think that way have internalized some racist ideas. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">As for your analogy, I think 'any kind of problem' is too, broad a statement. A person who continues to work for a racist person is a hypocrite to stay. </div> Well, consider the TV producer analogy I made above, which I think is a better comparison. Is that hypocritical? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">For the record I don't agree with an age limit being set. I think any person has the right for the opportunity to seek a job in the NBA at 18. Just like I have the opportunity to walk into any company and apply their once I'm 18.</div> But you don't have that right. I don't believe there's any law which makes it illegal for a company to impose age limits on employees. Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sort of ambivalent on the issue, except I don't think any player can sensibly whine about having a "right" to be in the NBA. That doesn't make any sense to me. At the same time, I question the motives for imposing an age limit.
I disagree. I mean it may be good for alot of players to get a couple of years of the college game to develop more and get a better taste of the pro game, but its makes you think this America, you can dream to be anything...at any age.
