http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/3588876 I've really had it with Stern and his idiotic acts. I cannot believe JVG was fined $100,000 - biggest fine ever to an NBA coach - for complaining about the refs. Come on, Mark Cuban complained and nothing happened. Stern has not make any effort to make the game better in terms of officiating but instead, he FINES everybody and anybody that complains about the reffing. What ticks me off the most is I feel that Stern fined JVG such a hefty fine just because he felt that he was threatened by JVG and his complaint. Sorry, David "the idiot" Stern has bigger ego than Kobe and Shaq combined, which is quite sickening. On the big picture, either Stern has got to go, or change the system so there is a power check balance between the NBA comissioner and a panel of jury of some sort. As it stands right now, Stern can wake up one day, feels like being a jackass and go on a power trip, and fine whoever he feels like and get away with it. Now in terms of making the game itself better officiated, why not have instant replays? It's a no-brainer really. Or, like someone in JBB's Houston Rockets forum suggested, we can have a video ref who sits and watches replays from different angles and so he can overturn a bad call if needed or if the refs are confused on what call to make, this ref can advise the correct call. What do you guys think?
While I feel like the fine was way too hefty, I think the main reason for it was the accusations he brought about of an "unnamed official" who told him that they were targetting Yao. It would have been different if he just sent in a complaint about one official in private to the league, but Van Gundy publically called out all officials.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Voodoo Child:</div><div class="quote_post">While I feel like the fine was way too hefty, I think the main reason for it was the accusations he brought about of an "unnamed official" who told him that they were targetting Yao. It would have been different if he just sent in a complaint about one official in private to the league, but Van Gundy publically called out all officials.</div> I see nothing wrong with publicly calling out all the officials. A man has a freedom of speech does he not? A man has the right to question the bad reffing does he not? Does that justify ANY type of fines, not to mention how ridiculously heavy it is? It just infuriates me that Stern is free to fine anyone that he feels is challenging his authority.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Purple Fever:</div><div class="quote_post">I have a weird feeling that Stern is covering something up. Something is f'd up behind the scenes.</div> I totally agree.. JVG let the "genie out of the bottle" and Stern wants to put it back in. It's a way of saying shut up while all the eyes are on the NBA. The pitiful thing is that Stern was at the actual game that clearly showed 2 BLOWN calls in the final minutes. Finley out of bounds and the anticipated call on the trap. What's going to happen to the ref's? Nothing.. they are gonna get paid their playoff money regardless. I think the veteran refs are "too veteran". A couple of them look like they are 90 years old. How can they keep up with NBA players night in and night out? They probably barely passed their driving test. I say get some younger quicker and sharper refs and send the others ones into retirement. They already proved that they can't ref a game anymore. This hurts the NBA's integrity more than a coach calling them out.
I can't say Jeff Van Gundy should be "banned for life" or anything of that nature, but I do think there's something to consider here. Coaches should be allowed to challenge refs - but the thing with that is it doesn't change anything anyway. When's the last time you saw somebody reverse a call? Contrary to popular belief, refs are not stupid. They know when they blow a call and they try not to screw up again. It's not screaming and swearing that makes a ref avoid making the same bad call twice. Van Gundy shouldn't go out and say the refs are targeting Yao (if that's what he said) because, quite simply, the refs don't give a damn. They don't care about the outcome of the game or who gets five fouls or whatever. The basic reason why refs call technicals is because coaches or players use excessive language, actions, or both to challenge THEIR integrity by challenging a call. It might be wrong, but you must accept it anyway. Refs don't challenge coaches - and what would that do? The coaches would be pissed. Basically, challenging anyone's integrity is pretty bad. Yeah.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HurricaneJesus:</div><div class="quote_post">The basic reason why refs call technicals is because coaches or players use excessive language, actions, or both to challenge THEIR integrity by challenging a call. It might be wrong, but you must accept it anyway. Refs don't challenge coaches - and what would that do? The coaches would be pissed. Basically, challenging anyone's integrity is pretty bad. Yeah.</div> Why can't a coach challenge a call that he thinks is bad? Is he supposed to just accept a bad call w/o doing anything about it? Why? That sounds pretty absurd to me. This is not even a question about whether it's bad to challenge anyone's integrity - it is very normal and natural to do so. Someone f*cks up, you challenge them. Let's not forget that when coaches/players offends a ref by way of complaining about calls or what not, that ref has the power to give him a technical. But guess what happens when a ref offends the coaches/players/fans by messing up on a critical call that could cost a team it's playoff series? Nothing. Hey that sounds fair to me....not. Come on, at the very least the coaches should be able to complain publicly about the integrity of the refs without getting fined by a douchebag with the name of David PowerTrippin Stern.
I think the "this call or that call cost the series" is something people use way too much. No one call can cost a game, much less a series, just the way no one play can cost a game or a series. If you miss a shot at the end of a game that you were losing by two, that miss didn't lose the game. The sum of all your bad plays did. If you played so well, then why were you down by two anyway? Same goes for calls. If the team performs decently the call will have no direct bearing on the game beyond the play at hand. Let's not forget that refs are humans too, and that officiating any sport at all is a difficult task in which you have a lot of stress and not much recognition. There is way more complaining than praise about officials, but that's only because the official is one you don't notice. You may not always agree with the call, but the ref has the rule over the game. The ref makes the call, but he doesn't decide the outcome of the game. He's there to enforce the rules of basketball which you agree to respect when you play in the first place. -- And yes, I think there is little more to do than accept a call. You may question it and request an explanation, but challenging a call is pointless - we now have video replays for buzzer beaters, etc, and that is plenty. I think we forget that most complaining has more to do with trying to get a few calls for your team than it does with fairness. And by the way, the ref doesn't offend the fans. The refs do not serve the fans.
i think that the fine was excessive. but i actually kinda feel for stern after this year. look at all the crap that's been thrown at him. usa's embarassing performance in the olympics. the brawl. jermaine o'neal's comments. now (again) a coach is accusing his refs of some conspiracy. if i were him, i'd be handing out the biggest fines possible too. he must feel like he's losing control of his league. i don't really blame him. i just hope this whole thing with van gundy and his "ref friend" doesn't turn into the hot item of the nba off-season, u know, where every time you turn on sportscenter it's all about the ongoing investigation surrounding van gundy and the refs and stern and blah blah.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">usa's embarassing performance in the olympics.</div> I don't think Stern runs the USA team does he? I don't think it really matters about all this stuff happening in the NBA. If anything, it gives the league more publicity and more people watching it to see whats going on. Sure, the brawl put the dignity of the league down a notch, but the only reason this situation is seemingly bad on the league is because Stern himself fined Van Gundy $100,000. Before the fine, I don't really think anyone thought that Van Gundy was talking about a conspiracy and rigged games but merely the fact that Yao is getting bad calls constantly. Now, Stern just made it worse in my eyes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't think Stern runs the USA team does he? I don't think it really matters about all this stuff happening in the NBA. If anything, it gives the league more publicity and more people watching it to see whats going on. Sure, the brawl put the dignity of the league down a notch, but the only reason this situation is seemingly bad on the league is because Stern himself fined Van Gundy $100,000. Before the fine, I don't really think anyone thought that Van Gundy was talking about a conspiracy and rigged games but merely the fact that Yao is getting bad calls constantly. Now, Stern just made it worse in my eyes.</div> the olympic thing is bad for stern because it hurt the association's standing abroad really bad. it justified things for people who said the nba was selfish, didn't play D, didn't care about the fundamentals. that sort of thing reflects on a commish. it's not as bad as the brawl or anything, but i was just pointing out all the bad publicity that the league has gotten this year. the olympics were a part of that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting HurricaneJesus:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the "this call or that call cost the series" is something people use way too much. No one call can cost a game, much less a series, just the way no one play can cost a game or a series. If you miss a shot at the end of a game that you were losing by two, that miss didn't lose the game. The sum of all your bad plays did. If you played so well, then why were you down by two anyway? Same goes for calls. If the team performs decently the call will have no direct bearing on the game beyond the play at hand. Let's not forget that refs are humans too, and that officiating any sport at all is a difficult task in which you have a lot of stress and not much recognition. There is way more complaining than praise about officials, but that's only because the official is one you don't notice.</div> Like I posted on the other thread, in the event of a very evenly matched game/series such as this particular Dallas vs. Houston series, one blown call by the refs CAN decide the fate of a game. It can also decide the fate of a series because momentums swing, confidences are shaken, etc etc. Refer to that thread. I understand refs are human also, but so are the players. The players can get tagged with technicals, fines, fouls, etc. but why are the refs immune to any repercussions? I'm not saying they should be fired with just one blown call, but if a ref is consistently so bad for whatever reason (old, biased towards a team, bribed, etc.) then they should be penalized one way or another. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting HurricaneJesus:</div><div class="quote_post">You may not always agree with the call, but the ref has the rule over the game. The ref makes the call, but he doesn't decide the outcome of the game. He's there to enforce the rules of basketball which you agree to respect when you play in the first place.</div> The ref does not rule over the game, the players does and that's exactly where it's wrong here. They are not there to rule the game, but as you said, enforce the rules. They are bound make mistakes and that's why we should find ways to minimize them. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting HurricaneJesus:</div><div class="quote_post">And yes, I think there is little more to do than accept a call. You may question it and request an explanation, but challenging a call is pointless - we now have video replays for buzzer beaters, etc, and that is plenty. </div> No, that is not plenty. If we can have video replays for buzzer beaters, it is not that hard to figure out a way to have Challenges. Now what I don't understand here, is why would you think challenging a call is pointless? Provided that you can only challenge a couple calls per game (NOT unlimited), I fail to see how this is not a viable possible solution. All it does is increase the integrity of the game. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting HurricaneJesus:</div><div class="quote_post">And by the way, the ref doesn't offend the fans. The refs do not serve the fans.</div> The refs does serve the fans. Players are like the main actors, refs are the directors.
While I do think you have a point on that arguing and complaining about calls already made (even bad ones) is completely useless, its better to work on what you CAN improve (yao's FT misses, etc), I have to disagree. I'm not going to say that the bad call LOST the game for Hou (for all we know, even if the right call had been made, Hou might've still lost). Throw everything prior to that call out, YOU CANNOT RULE OUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT IF THE RIGHT CALL HAD BEEN MADE, HOU WOULD'VE BEEN DOWN BY 1, AND WOULD'VE HAD A MUCH BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING. So the question is, DID OR DID NOT the call have an effect on the outcome of the game, YES it POSSIBLY might have... so there you have it, players should affect the outcome of the game, and refs make calls based on what the players do, so if a call that ISN'T based on what player(s) do is made, it MIGHT AFFECT the game in a way we don't want to, so yes, refs CAN decide the outcome of the game. All in all I actually agree with you if Hou played a little better, esp. if Yao made those FTs, we wouldn't be having this conversation, but I just wanted to point out what I think. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting HurricaneJesus:</div><div class="quote_post">I think the "this call or that call cost the series" is something people use way too much. No one call can cost a game, much less a series, just the way no one play can cost a game or a series. If you miss a shot at the end of a game that you were losing by two, that miss didn't lose the game. The sum of all your bad plays did. If you played so well, then why were you down by two anyway? Same goes for calls. If the team performs decently the call will have no direct bearing on the game beyond the play at hand. Let's not forget that refs are humans too, and that officiating any sport at all is a difficult task in which you have a lot of stress and not much recognition. There is way more complaining than praise about officials, but that's only because the official is one you don't notice. You may not always agree with the call, but the ref has the rule over the game. The ref makes the call, but he doesn't decide the outcome of the game. He's there to enforce the rules of basketball which you agree to respect when you play in the first place. -- And yes, I think there is little more to do than accept a call. You may question it and request an explanation, but challenging a call is pointless - we now have video replays for buzzer beaters, etc, and that is plenty. I think we forget that most complaining has more to do with trying to get a few calls for your team than it does with fairness. And by the way, the ref doesn't offend the fans. The refs do not serve the fans.</div>
Just a little seemingly trite post here. All I can say is, the refs today are as bad as I've ever seen them, and watching refs who won't make an unpopular call is enough to make me think that refs have gone just too far. They willingly submit to trickery, and seemingly can be 'bought' by the wiliest of veterans. (Aside: I don't mean bribed.) They are hasty with ejections, and I've seen some calls in the past two years that just seem to be made up on the spot. When refs are as clearly biased in games as they are, it hurts the league, the players, and everyone else involved, more than anyone, the fans. (All this from a Celtics fan, whoda thunk that one?)
Van Gundy wasn't just complaining about a call, he was fined for implying that the NBA is biased against Yao specifically. In the Houston Chronicle, they reported that Van Gundy apologized recently for using the word "bias" and that he made those comments in a fit of emotion. The "memo" that allegedly named Yao specifically is a fabrication. All NBA memos to officials never include specific player names, only those calls that officals need to watch for. This information may not be enough to convince a person who is into conspiracy theories, but I hope to others this might finally put an end to the belief that JVG is being wronged here. Van Gundy himself admitted that he brought this on himself by his careless use of words. I realize this will probably not end discussions like this, but I thought I'd put my 2 cents worth anyway.
