<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Toronto made a great move by trading Vince Carter. They also made a terrible move by getting almost nothing for him. Vince was acting like a baby and needed to go, but it seems the Raptors panicked and took the first offer that came in. They should have at least gotten some high draft picks or a young prospect for him. A deal for Shawn Marion straight up was supposedly turned down before the season.</div> Source
Before the season...its easy to say now that he made a bad dicision of not trading him for marion before the season, but before nobody expected vince to even play the way he did when he was with the raps this season. you can't really blame babcock for this...
^ You can to a point. I personally would have. I would have been fed up with the previous year. Plus, Vince isn't half the defender Marion is, and they were equal offensive players at the time. Marion is also a much better rebounder. I would have done it, but you're right, you can't totally blame him, who knew Vince was going to play so bad for the Raps?
That's true, who knew Vince would dogg it, but the dude still demanded a trade, so you had to expect to a certain extent that his heart won't be there. Man if he made that trade.
doubt I doubt this rumor is true. It says in the article "supposedly" so there is no real proof or fact behind this. Why would the Suns offer a younger, better rebounder and better defensive player for an injury-prone, and sullen fomer-superstar who has his best years behind him?
First off, Babcock thought Vince would play hard under a new coach and GM and no one knew that Vince would play so half-heartedly and get injured to lower his value. Secondly I'm happy in one way that this didn't happen, because I wouldn't like the Suns with Carter on their team as much and they would probably be a worse team with Carter as Carter can't play the PF and Marion brings so many intangibles. Under the circumstances Carters value would have been better than Marions and it would have looked like a bad trade at that time. No one could have predicted what would have happened in the next 6 months.
I really don't care, because who knows if it's true. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">I doubt this rumor is true. It says in the article "supposedly" so there is no real proof or fact behind this. Why would the Suns offer a younger, better rebounder and better defensive player for an injury-prone, and sullen fomer-superstar who has his best years behind him?</div> Best years behind him? I don't know. Maybe if you're talking about off the court as a superstar marketing wise, then yes, but as a player, I'm not sure. Although he's not the high flyer he once was (he still is, but not the same player), he's still a very good player. After the Nets trade, he was arguably a better player from there on out, than he was when he was a Raptor from 99-01 (his "best" years). He should only build on his new start as a Net in the upcoming season.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting JWohl:</div><div class="quote_post">I doubt this rumor is true. It says in the article "supposedly" so there is no real proof or fact behind this. Why would the Suns offer a younger, better rebounder and better defensive player for an injury-prone, and sullen fomer-superstar who has his best years behind him?</div> Let's see, the Suns were looking to trade Marion, and they felt they were paying him franchise player money to be a superstar role player. Marion doesn't demand the ball in crunch time, he doesn't take over games, and he doesn't carry an offense, and the Suns were previously looking for a player to do that. Best days behind him? Carter averaged 22-5-5 on the worst offensive team in the league, on a competent offensive team with actuall offensive sets, those numbers would be more in the 25-5-5 range. So if at 28 years old, that's considered having your best years behind you, and also being injury prone though only missing 9 games, then I don't know what's considered good.
i'm assuming that this offer was made before Phoenix had interest in Nash and before we signed Rafer. Because if it is, this changes everything. Carter going to the Suns means that the likelyhood of them getting Nash is not very due to them already having a big star. It also means that Nash is free for the Toronto Raptors to sign and just imagine what would have happenned.
I'm glad Marion didn't move as he's working well with the system Phoenix have at the mo' though carter on the current line up of Phoenix instead of marion would be interesting
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">^ Raptors didn't have cap space, that wasn't going to happen...</div> That is a great point right there. Changing Carter for Marion does little. We didn't need a different star, we needed a deeper talent pool. Babcock's trade was a smart trade that just didn't work out. The Raptor's have not had any flexiblity financially since the year they signed VC, Davis, JYD, A. William and Olajuwon. I think right now, we are so close to making a playoff spot. Now we have 2 first round picks that could help us (this year or next) win a couple of rounds, THEN Rose's contract expires and we have flexiblity to sign some free agents. Getting Marion for Carter straight up would just maintain our mediocrity.
his best days..."were" behind him....considering his days during the two seasons when the raptors made the playoffs....it wasn't until the trade with NJ did we know that Vince was still capable of playing at a super star level... we are talking in times of the summer previous to this season...nobody had any kind of idea that vince would still be able to play at his level right now
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting McGrady^1:</div><div class="quote_post">his best days..."were" behind him....considering his days during the two seasons when the raptors made the playoffs....it wasn't until the trade with NJ did we know that Vince was still capable of playing at a super star level... we are talking in times of the summer previous to this season...nobody had any kind of idea that vince would still be able to play at his level right now</div> Well like og15 said, he averaged 22-5-5 on a team without any offensive sets at the age of 27. Vince Carter had to score all of his points by himself from isolations and some pick and rolls here and there. On a team with actual offensive sets, he would of averaged a near 25+-5-5. I'd say that's pretty good. Last year, midway through the season, he was saying that this season is the best overall season of his career...and that's on a team that ran no offensive plays. Just imagine how good he would be if was on a team that actually ran an offense. He didn't have any major injuries until the end of the season (Bowen incident). The only ones who would believe his best days are behind him, are the ones who compare his stat numbers from last season to the numbers from earlier in his career where use to dunk 2-3 times a game and on National TV every other week. Why is it so hard to believe that VC had the type of season he did with the Nets? It's not like the season he had the previous year was horrible. This year he's on a team that runs an offense that fits him (like his earlier years), and he's not a bad player at all. He's an excellent shooter and scorer, he gets a lot of shot attempts, he attracts double and triple teams, and he's on team that runs real offensive plays for him. It shouldn't be that hard to believe.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Carcharias:</div><div class="quote_post">That is a great point right there. Changing Carter for Marion does little. We didn't need a different star, we needed a deeper talent pool. Babcock's trade was a smart trade that just didn't work out. The Raptor's have not had any flexiblity financially since the year they signed VC, Davis, JYD, A. William and Olajuwon. I think right now, we are so close to making a playoff spot. Now we have 2 first round picks that could help us (this year or next) win a couple of rounds, THEN Rose's contract expires and we have flexiblity to sign some free agents. Getting Marion for Carter straight up would just maintain our mediocrity.</div> That was actually in reply to going after Nash, not to trading Carter for Marion. The trade Babcock made didn't really give us cap space because we'd still have to sign 2 first round picks which would take away the money saved from the Vince trade anyways. Though the team would get more talent, but it would not really be a solution in itself.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">That was actually in reply to going after Nash, not to trading Carter for Marion. The trade Babcock made didn't really give us cap space because we'd still have to sign 2 first round picks which would take away the money saved from the Vince trade anyways. Though the team would get more talent, but it would not really be a solution in itself.</div> You might be right about not having enough cap space but I mentioned before Rafer was signed. Still, you are probably right because Babcock wont use that much of the MLSE.
last year his 22 5 5 might seem good, but vince imo was never the player he was when he was in the playoffs where he would attack the rim at will and not settle for stupid fade away jumpers...you could just see it in his game..he just wasn't playing at the same level , intensity etc.
