Well I'm bored, so I'm writing a review of the Marbury trade now that it's been given time, and we've seen the last few weeks. Of course the real test is this offseason, what they do with the money, how they use the draft picks (this year's plus a future conditional pick), and how Lampe and Vujanic work out. At first glance the trade was a steal for New York... Marbury is better than anybody in the trade, and even though New York got the Penny Hardaway contract, Marbury seemed to be worth more than what the Suns got. But quickly it was seen that the Suns would save a lot of money on this deal... that with the draft picks seemed to be the reason behind the trade. Yet, Bryan Colangelo threw this "we're also trying to develop young players with this trade" crap down our throat. Yeah as if trading your franchise point guard would HELP develop Johnson, Amare, and Barbosa. Well as usual he was right... I hate to admit it! Bryan Colangelo is either really good at his job or really lucky!! Joe Johnson went from about 13 ppg, 4 rpg, 3.5 apg TO 21 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg -- and I feel is much more consistent than from years past, and even from earlier this season. I was watching a Suns game and they had a graphic comparing him to some of the best SG in the league (McGrady, Pierce, Allen, etc) and he was pretty close to all of them in all major statistics. Johnson should be considered for Most Improved Player, he's bettered everything besides his 3 point percentage. Barbosa has also improved greatly from his numbers before the trade, but that is expect when you go from 8 minutes a game to nearly 30 a night!! So he has tripled most of his stats, but again give anybody minutes and you can expect that. Amare, on the other hand, has been hard to judge, as he's spent most of his time in street clothes. I hope this is his injury season and he can put it past him... I'd hate to see another Grant Hill or Penny Hardaway. The Suns are 5-7 since the trade (5 of those loses were close) New York is 6-6 since the trade. Marbury went from around 20 points and 8 assists a game to 17 and 10 with the Knicks. As you'll remember Marbury was getting those numbers when he first was with the Suns, it was kind of telling his teammates and fans "I'm not a ballhog" -- but he became more productive when he started scoring again... although now it seems some of his Suns teammates might have had a problem with him doing that. Penny has been a surprise, his numbers are about the same as they were in Phoenix. I figured they would sit him on the bench until his contract expired... glad to see they are using him even with Houston and Anderson. Maciej Lampe was about as ineffective as he could have been the other night when he played the 1 or 2 minutes and missed a bad shot and picked up a foul. I just hope he develops fast... otherwise the Suns are just teaching another team's future star (like Portland did with Jermaine O'Neal). Eisley has been pretty good off the bench, I just wish his salary wasn't so big, cause the Suns are probably going to try to trade him or bribe Charlotte into taking him in their expansion draft. Googs has gone unused most of the season... I don't understand why, he's still a 250 pound body that can shoot pretty well from mid-range, and can grab a few rebounds. Harvey's minutes have dwindled since the trade... he's non-existent now, again not sure why because he is good for a few rebounds himself while tossing in a couple easy buckets. The Suns have 4 guards (counting Jacobsen) problem is they start 3, leaving 1 (Eisley) on the bench... I don't get why they start such a small line-up, it's been working pretty good lately, but just like when Ainge did it, small-ball only works for so long, then teams find ways to beat it. I don't see why Zarko, Googs, or Harvey are not starting at the 4... instead they throw out Marion to defend KG, Duncan, etc. I'll give it to them, they are like 5-3 using the smaller lineup, but I just don't see it working for very long. I'd make the starting 5... C = White (big body, plus Voskul is good energy off the bench) PF = Harvey (while Stoudamire's out) SF = Marion SG = JJ PG = Barbosa Then my first sub would probably be Voskul and Zarko in for White and Harvey. Jacobsen would be my SG on the bench, I might put him as the SF on rare occasions. I don't know, I just find standard basketball works better than all these little trick lineups. The trade seems to be a push so far... both teams have improved their records, New York is in the playoffs (which isn't hard in the East) and Phoenix is a few games from climbing out of the Western cellar. Like I said before, the real test is going to be this offseason... if the Suns can't dress a competitive lineup next year, then the trade wasn't at all good for the Suns... with the draft pick and the extra money, they should be able to put together a playoff team. Of course their plan is probably further down the road, in 3-4 years when Lampe develops into a decent player and Vujanic comes over and works his way in. Also by then the 2 draft picks they acquired will have time to develop themself. But that's too distant of a future for my taste.
good stuff scorbutic, i totally agree with your starting lineup, refresh my memory on wht picks they have this year, its there own 1st a new york first, and i though somewhere i heard about a cleveland 1st, and there was another new york first in there, so can anyone tell me what the draft pick situation for the suns is like?
The Suns own their own, New York's #1 this year, Cleveland's #1 (lottery protected, so unless they make the playoffs, the Suns won't see it this year), and a future New York pick... probably lottery protected, and I doubt it's next year's. So it's shaping up to be... ----------------- 2004 Phoenix #1 2004 New York #1 Future Cleveland #1 Future New York #1 I guess the Cleveland pick is lottery protected for a while, nbadraft.net doesn't give a year as to when it becomes unprotected, which could mean they don't know or it's forever lottery protected(?). The Suns will probably move 1 of their 1st round picks... most likely giving it to Charlotte bribing them to pick Eisley in their expansion draft. It takes his contract of the Suns' books, and for a backup, it's quite large ($6,375,000 next year, $6,906,250 the following year) -- Charlotte can pick him, and then release him, not having to pay his contract. At least that's what I've read.
great post Scorbutic!! Unless there are awesome talents at where the Suns pick I hope they package the picks for a top three.
Good post and pretty informative as well. I was thinking that the Knicks got the better of the deal but with all those draft picks and the quick developement of Johnson and Barbosa it looks like the Suns are in good shape as well. I think it still remains to be see who gets the best of the trade but Phoenix doesn't look like it misses Marbury one bit.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting scorbutic:</div><div class="quote_post">The Suns own their own, New York's #1 this year, Cleveland's #1 (lottery protected, so unless they make the playoffs, the Suns won't see it this year), and a future New York pick... probably lottery protected, and I doubt it's next year's. So it's shaping up to be... ----------------- 2004 Phoenix #1 2004 New York #1 Future Cleveland #1 Future New York #1 I guess the Cleveland pick is lottery protected for a while, nbadraft.net doesn't give a year as to when it becomes unprotected, which could mean they don't know or it's forever lottery protected(?). The Suns will probably move 1 of their 1st round picks... most likely giving it to Charlotte bribing them to pick Eisley in their expansion draft. It takes his contract of the Suns' books, and for a backup, it's quite large ($6,375,000 next year, $6,906,250 the following year) -- Charlotte can pick him, and then release him, not having to pay his contract. At least that's what I've read.</div> Thats a good idea, they should definatley go through with that. How did they get the cleveland pick?
Remember Wesley Person? Well when the Suns originally traded for McDyess we gave him to Cleveland, and then sent a ton of draft picks to Denver and cash... we got McDyess and a Cleveland #1 pick. Such a bad trade
Oh well the original trade was.... Phoenix gets : Antonio McDyess Cleveland gets : Tony Dumas, Wesley Person Denver gets : 2 Phoenix 1st round picks, 2 Phoenix 2nd round picks, Cleveland 1st round pick. I'm not sure why PHOENIX has the CLEVELAND pick now, perhaps another trade later followed (anybody know?), some sites claim Phoenix got that Cleveland #1 pick during this trade, which I don't believe that was the case remembering back on this trade, plus major NBA websites agree with me. McDyess played 1 season with Phoenix, went BACK to Denver, so the Nuggets lost NOTHING and gained 5 draft picks... these are the 1st round picks the Suns would have had... 1998 : Denver picks Tyronn Lue (still on the board was Al Harrington, Rashard Lewis, Cuttino Mobley) 1999 : Denver picks James Posey (still on the board was Andrei Kirilenko, Gordan Giricek, Lee Nailon, Emmanuel Ginobili) Although the Suns have been known to make bone-head trades, they sure do make up for it in the draft... a good trade they DID make involving a draft pick was... Dallas traded Martin Muursepp, Bubba Wells, Pat Garrity and their 1999 first round draft pick to Phoenix for Steve Nash -- that 1999 ended up being the 9th pick, and the Suns picked SHAWN MARION! So Phoenix wasn't crying over that trade at all... though Garrity was involved in another bad trade, the Penny Hardaway one (Danny Manning, Pat Garrity, 2 1st round picks for Penny). The first of those draft picks to be paid was actually a Knicks pick the Suns got in the Ewing trade, given to Orlando who gave it to Houston. 2001 : Houston picks Jason Collins (still on the board was Zach Randolph, Jamaal Tinsley, Tony Parker, Gilbert Arenas) Although if I bring that one up I should also mention the Suns traded Jud Buechler to Orlando and Vinny Del Negro to LA Clippers in order to obtain Bo Outlaw and one of their 1st round picks back... that pick happened to be lucky #9, which they used to get AMARE STOUDAMIRE! I'll try to figure out why Phoenix has that Cleveland pick
