About That Fiscal Cliff

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Denny Crane, Nov 21, 2012.

  1. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Stossel rocks.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/11/21/about_that_fiscal_cliff_116221.html

    Yikes, we're headed toward a fiscal cliff! It will crush the economy! Or so the media and politicians tell us.

    The "cliff" is a series of tax increases and budget cuts that automatically go into effect Jan. 1 unless Congress acts.

    Will Congress act?

    It will! I see the future: The politicians will meet and fret and hold press conferences and predict disaster. Then they'll reach a deal.

    It will just postpone the reckoning, but they'll congratulate themselves, and the media will move on.

    America, however, continues to go broke.

    "They're not going to admit that we're bankrupt, and they won't admit that we're on the verge of a major, major change in our society," says Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas. "So they'll keep putting it aside, but then we'll eventually probably destroy the dollar."

    The across-the-board cut, or "sequestration," was designed to be so distasteful that Congress would be moved to cut more deliberately. If it doesn't act, $110 billion in projected spending will be automatically cut -- half from domestic spending, half from the Pentagon.

    "They assume that they made it so bad that they wouldn't accept it, but I don't think they did," said Paul. "They're not even ... talking about real cuts. They're talking about cuts in baseline budgeting."

    Right, the old baseline budgeting trick.

    "If they propose, let's say, a $10 billion increase for next year and cut it down to $9 billion, they say they're cutting 10 percent. But they're not cutting anything, they're only increasing it $9 billion instead of $10 billion. It's done on purpose so that people get confused."

    Republican House Speaker John Boehner calls the fiscal cliff a "nightmare."

    But why? Trillion-dollar deficits are more terrible.

    Cuts of $110 billion would even be good for us because it would keep money in private hands, away from the bloated and freedom-killing bureaucracy.

    "When government spending is about $3.8 trillion, you're going to cut $100 billion? That's a deck chair on the Titanic," said Russ Roberts of the Hoover Institution. "If they're actual cuts, I think that would be great. I'd cut 10, 20 percent across the board if I had my druthers. But across the board scares people because they think, 'Let's save the things that are really important and cut the things that are not so important.' (But) that never works."

    It doesn't work because every cent in the budget is absolutely crucial to someone.

    Lately the media are focused on the $400 billion in tax increases that make up four-fifths of the fiscal cliff. We're told that if the Bush-era tax rate cuts expire and the spending reductions kick in, catastrophe will follow.

    "The tax increases sound scarier. But we have a trillion-dollar deficit!" Roberts pointed out. "So to me, the idea of raising taxes is probably a good idea. It says this spending that we've been doing is not a free lunch."

    I'm not convinced that giving politicians more money is ever a good idea.

    And won't the wealthy high-earners find a way around the higher rates? When rich people do that, much of their money goes to lawyers instead of consumer satisfaction.

    The other thing that scares Washington are the automatic cuts to Pentagon spending. "These draconian cuts represent a threat to our national security," say Republican Sens. John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina.

    "The Pentagon is hysterical about it," notes Ben Friedman of the Cato Institute. "But it's about 10 percent, which would bring us roughly back to where we were in defense spending in 2006 ... adjusted for inflation, not exactly a crisis year in the Pentagon. They've gotten very spoiled at the Pentagon. They had years of luxury."

    Automatic cuts might even be good, said Friedman.

    "We need probably bigger cuts in the defense budget because we do too much. This will force us to make some choices. We try to be everything in the world ... pretending that every unstable country is a threat to us."

    I won't lose sleep over automatic spending cuts. The "fiscal cliff" frightens me less than the bankruptcy cliff.
     
  2. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    That baseline budgeting trick.

    Obama's going to cut $1B in spending. So instead of increasing spending by $10B, he's only going to increase it by $9B.

    Cut the fucking spending. For real.
     
  3. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

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    My biggest concern all along is when we have to declare insolvency and what that will look like.
     
  4. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    It'll look like "It's Bush's fault."

    Never the policies of the 4+ years since.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. The_Lillard_King

    The_Lillard_King Westside

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    Obama on this board is like having Crawford on the Blazers.

    Eventhough he is a Blazer, you know certain Blazer fans are going to be bagging on him all season no matter what he does.
     
  6. BLAZER PROPHET

    BLAZER PROPHET Well-Known Member

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    wtf??
     
  7. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    I'm bagging on the baseline budgeting as spending cuts. The "jobs saved" metric. The outright logic faults. All utter bullshit. Only a fool would believe in those things and only a fool or a sycophant would defend them.
     
  8. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    What? You mean actually pay for what America has borrowed? Get out of town...gotta keep the party going and let's inflate this bubble some more! :MARIS61:
     
  9. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Fuck it. We're all going to have to pay the piper sometime -- better now than later (unless it happens after I'm dead, in which case better later than now).
     
  10. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    The cliff is going to fuck so many things up. It will be the ultimate economic "snow ball" effect. Shit is going to get really ugly soon.
     
  11. 3RA1N1AC

    3RA1N1AC 00110110 00111001

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    cant wait, im gonna buy like 15 houses to set up all my secret wives
     
  12. EL PRESIDENTE

    EL PRESIDENTE Username Retired in Honor of Lanny.

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    The true snowball is AVOIDING the fiscal cliff. Like the TARP bailouts...everything is getting worse and worse everytime they "stimulate" the economy (aka print money) or bail someone out.

    Oh yeah, and now we're going to have to bailout the FHA.
     
  13. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Look at any great empire in history, at some point the cost of trying to be everywhere all at once militarily crippled nearly all of them and reduced their reach and influence either collapsing or causing a slow gradual decline. It will be interesting to see if we give up the silly and unsustainable notion of playing world cop and how quickly world-wide petroleum reserves reach a scarcity level that trying to secure them is no longer economically a viable strategy. How these factors dovetail will largely determine our fate.

    The fiscal cliff is a red herring. Cutting government spending and gutting entitlements will certainly hurt in the short term, but will pale in comparison to the economic devastation we'll face if we can't find some way to reduce our reliance on foreign investment and loans and also figure out some way to reduce dependency on foreign energy (the engine for our economy). Coal is a bandaid as is Canadian kerogen shale oil, and alernatives like wind, solar and bio-fuels will never be adequate replacements for cost/weight/energy value that petroleum provides. I get the feeling that at some point we're all going to be doing without a lot of the conveniences we all got so used to for the last 70 or 80 years.
     
  14. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    You make a great point. I agree.
     
  15. magnifier661

    magnifier661 B-A-N-A-N-A-S!

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    Yeah the perpetual debt is getting ridiculous right now. I don't know how many people remember the Kennedy Years; but his cabinet changed the monetary structure to be backed by silver. It showed great promise of restructuring the financial state of the union. We stopped relying on perpetual debt to valuate the dollar.
     
  16. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    Coins were made of silver until 1964.

    Nixon took us off the gold standard. The middle class has declined steadily ever since. Without the gold standard, the middle class will disappear.
     
  17. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    You know the 'fiscal cliff' is a scare tactic when the President heads off for a few weeks in Burma and other nothing countries and the media "forgets" about the impending economic Armageddon. As soon as he gets back, though, it will become a big story again, and how the evil GOP are trying to doom us all, and how we are screwed because the President is trying sooo hard to cut a deal, the GOP are cold-hearted bastards who want you to die, and the deadline is looming.

    It really is that predictable these days. I was please to see Boehner actually put the massive costs of ObamaCare back on the table, though. What is it now? The CBO projects it will cost 3x their initial estimate? Who pays for that?
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2012
  18. Nikolokolus

    Nikolokolus There's always next year

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    Do you also agree that everybody (and I do mean EVERYBODY) needs to start paying more taxes? Our nation's infrastructure is turning into a shambles and keeping tax rates low while borrowing to fund our wants and needs isn't going to last forever. Eventually China's economy is going to slow down and they aren't going to be so eager to buy US bonds ... especially once our GDP to debt ratio reaches a tipping point.
     
  19. PapaG

    PapaG Banned User BANNED

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    I advocate raising taxes on everyone, federal workers included. That is shared sacrifice, isn't it? Obama should be all over that idea.
     
  20. Haakzilla

    Haakzilla Well-Known Member

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    ...and then he got assassinated for it :sigh: Until congress takes back the power of issuing currency WITHOUT debt, the ticking time bomb will continue on until it's too late.

    This is a very interesting read for a possible solution [Monetary Reform Act] --> http://www.themoneymasters.com/monetary-reform-act/
     

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