Politics Abraham Lincoln: worst president ever?

Discussion in 'Blazers OT Forum' started by Sinobas, Aug 26, 2017.

  1. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    I've been watching the Civil War series by Ken Burns, and am coming to think that Lincoln is probably our worst president ever, rather than the saintly image our society has bestowed upon him.

    Escalation of the Civil War was his fault. He could have simply withdrew federal troops from the south and let them go in peace. Slavery was dying a natural death all over the western world, and the US could have put pressure on the south to stop it via blockade or sanctions.

    Instead, he raises an large army and launched a full on invasion of the south. His purpose was not to end slavery, but to preserve the union, he said this flat out. The civil war was the biggest blood bath in our nations history. More americans died than in Civil War than all other wars combined, which is even bigger when you consider the population of the time.

    Union troops razed and looted cities. He imprisoned northern jouranlists who were critical of the war. He was really a total tyrant. John Wilkes Booth was justified in shooting him in the head.

     
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  2. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    AH! The Judge agrees with me.

    The time to free the slaves in the Constitution by amendment was right after the States succeeded. The remaining state easily ratify the Amendment. Then entise the southern state back into the Union by offering to buy the Slaves. No war needed.

    The good judge is spot on. But then, it was not about slaves to begin with.
     
  3. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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  4. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    Or what if they just blockaded cotton exports till slaves were freed and converted to paid laborers?
     
  5. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    A blockad is war. War cost too much in blood and treasure. The market value of all of the slaves is less than 1/6th the amount spent on the war.
     
  6. barfo

    barfo triggered obsessive commie pinko boomer maniac Staff Member Global Moderator

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  7. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Well-Known Member

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    Clearly this thread was started by a vampire, Lincoln's sworn enemies.
     
  8. MarAzul

    MarAzul LongShip

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    Lincoln killed more Americans than any other despot in history.
     
  9. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    Well, that's why that war is known to everyone as the "War of Northern Aggression." Because the South was just sitting there, minding its own business, certainly not in open rebellion, and the North just marched their armies in.
     
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  10. Further

    Further Guy

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  11. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    Oh please....you should be embarassed to make such a pitiful argument.
     
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  12. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    It's considered an act of war, but it would have been FAR different than the slaughter of almost 3 quarters of a million people and all the property that was destroyed.
     
  13. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I'm not sure if you're kidding or not, but if the Confederacy wasn't willing to end slavery to prevent a war when it came to secession, what makes you think they were willing to end it to prevent a war when it came to a blockade? The South declared war by starting a rebellion. They were ready and willing to fight--they weren't randomly attacked.
     
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  14. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    An ultimatum to end slavery was not even on the table when the civil war started. One state, south carolina, started the violence, by attacking Fort Sumter after repeatedly asking the Federal soldiers to leave.

    So as I said, the federal forces could have withdrew from the south, and started a blockade against the south or simply let them go their own way.

    4 states withdrew from he union as a RESULT of Lincoln raising a militia to invade the south. They first entered Virginia who had not attacked them.

    Lincoln dealt with this issue in the most destructive and bloody way possible. Not to mention all the violations of the constitution when he imprisoned northerners critical of the war, and suspended habeas corpus. Then you look at his treatment of the Indians which is rarely ever mentioned in the mainstream, since he has this angelic public image. There's a lot of reasons to consider him a terrible tyrannical president. No president has come even CLOSE to being as tyrannical as him.
     
  15. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    "Going their own way" wasn't an option. No nation is going to allow a rebellion to go unchallenged. That's absurd. And again, considering the South was willing to start a rebellion (which is an act of war), there's no question that a blockade would also have resulted in violence. Your claim that the Confederacy was a peace-loving group that wanted to avoid any and all conflict and would have meekly submitted to a blockade doesn't stand up to even the slightest scrutiny.
     
  16. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    Why wasn't it an option? Of course it was an option.

    Ugh..my claim about the confederacy...now you are blatantly putting words into my mouth that I never remotely implied. That's not a conversation.
     
  17. julius

    julius I wonder if there's beer on the sun Staff Member Global Moderator

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    How long before it turns out Lincoln was actually a Democrat!? #WorstPresidentEver #TakeHimOffThePenny
     
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  18. Minstrel

    Minstrel Top Of The Pops Global Moderator

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    Hello darkness, my old friend
    I told you why it wasn't an option. There isn't a single nation that would simply allow a rebellion to "go their own way" unless they were powerless to prevent it. You rise in rebellion against a nation that can crush you, you get crushed. That's the risk of rebellion.
     
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  19. Sinobas

    Sinobas Banned User BANNED

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    To say it's not possible is simply absurd. That's like saying that if a wife leaves her husband, he has to kill her, there's no other option.
     
  20. Denny Crane

    Denny Crane It's not even loaded! Staff Member Administrator

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    My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it...

    -- Abe Lincoln, letter to Horace Greeley, 1862

    A house divided can not stand.

    They taught this in grade school when I was growing up.

    The war wasn't about freeing the slaves (until near the end). It's far more likely the real reason behind the South wanting to secede was that new states joining the union would be free states, and the free states were already voting (in congress) benefits for the north (railroads).

     
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