Anfernee Simons is unbelievable

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by B-Roy, Feb 16, 2022.

  1. Rastapopoulos

    Rastapopoulos Crucifix-over

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  2. 1 Eye Jack

    1 Eye Jack Well-Known Member

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    Kid has above average skills in several areas

    3pt shooting
    Elite ball handling
    Can jump out of the gym
    Great floater

    Needs to continue to improve in these areas
    Defense
    Drives to basket and finishing
    Continue to improve his passing/pg skills

    Has all the skills needed to be a star. Going to sit back and enjoy watching his growth.
     
  3. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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  4. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry for this moment of weakness because I am trying to just let things happen with our team and see what it becomes but can someone name me one great championship team who had their top two players that were even close to redundant? I mean, just find me one. Ant is not a solid defender and he is much better with the ball in his hands than he is off the ball on offense. He's small. I just don't know. We'll see how it looks at some point, I'm sure of that but I don't like how it feels like it's going to be.
     
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  5. blazerfan11

    blazerfan11 Well-Known Member

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    Nurkic was also a top player on the team. He was doing so well they decided to give him a vacation. Nassir Little was also having a big impact at the time he was injured. I think it's too early to say Simons will be the second best player next season, even if he is the second leading scorer.
     
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  6. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    It's also probably too early to say that our back court will once again be a gaping hole for opposing offenses to run through and shoot over like they aren't there but that doesn't keep me from thinking it.
     
  7. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

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    I bet you Ant improves on defense over the summer in significant fashion Id bet up to average defense. Lillard probably will be able to increase it to average D if he gets more rest with Ant as a competent replacement at PG which CJ was not at all.

    Cj was shoot first and tunnel vision for days. This will make a huge difference for the team and also for Dame in terms of rest. I don’t know how many times I’d see CJ spell Dame and just get tunnel vision and singlehandedly piss away the lead by looking for his own shot and missing open shooters, cutters and trailers. Ant isnt like that which means Dame gets more rest.

    I believe with more rest and a healthy body Dame will play Average defense. I think with his foot speed and lateral quickness and length Ant has the potential to become a good defender. And it seems he has the perfect coach and buy-in. Give it until midseason or even next offseason to see how things change.
     
  8. handiman

    handiman Well-Known Member

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    LeBron and Wade were pretty redundant. They only overcame it, and just barely so, because their talent level was so superior to everyone else's. So, it's not really a formula to follow, but it is one example.
     
  9. boredinsalem

    boredinsalem Active Member

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    Let's think about it the other way. Has there ever been a team with two stars that could both get their own shot, create for others, and stretch the floor as well as Dame and Ant? I'd say no. You get two of the three with the Steph and Klay, and Klay's defense outweighs Ant's shot creation/distribution probably, but I think we can create something unique.
     
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  10. boredinsalem

    boredinsalem Active Member

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    True, but each were very bad perimeter shooters. The spacing with Dame and Ant will be far better.
     
  11. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    And to add, two guys who both have to be trapped 25-30 feet from the basket. It's a nice problem to have.
     
  12. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    you might need to define redundant. Thomas and Dumars were redundant in many ways. Jordan and Pippen were quite redundant. Giannis and Middleton have redundant skills. Kawhi and Siakam

    obviously though we're mostly talking about elite talent with those pairings. Here's the thing though, Portland's two most talented players are Dame and Ant. Dame has elite talent, yet you and others want to trade him away for the hope, that somehow, someway, that will end up with Portland having two players around Dame's current talent level. And part of that is the apparent absolute conviction that Ant will be one of them, which is itself a giant leap of faith greater than any scenario with Dame

    the Trade-Dame-To-Get-Better-Idea makes no sense to me and it never has. Over the next 2-4 years, I'm convinced the best chance Portland has to contend is with Dame, not without him. Blazers would not be a contender with Ant and Jaylen Brown or Ant and Simmons....and that boat has sailed anyway.

    Portland is not going to get the godfather package for Dame some of you think. It just won't happen, at least not between now and the start of next season, and after that isn't likely either. What they would get is a purgatory package. Good enough to keep Portland locked into that zone of low-level draft picks and 5th-8th seeds

    I remember, around 2015-16 when CJ won MIP and had just burst onto the scene, much like Ant now, a lot of voices were advocating trading Dame and building a team around CJ. Yes, that happened. How would that have worked out? How much contending would Portland have done in the last 6 years?

    whatever template for a championship you can imagine, redundant skills or not, the one essential ingredient is elite talent. Portland has one. They have an elite #1. They need an elite #2. They aren't going to contend with a elite #2 and a #3
     
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  13. handiman

    handiman Well-Known Member

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    Certainly not any less than ended up happening. ;)
     
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  14. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Dame in 2022 is a much better player than he was in 2016, fwiw.
     
  15. boredinsalem

    boredinsalem Active Member

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    Yeah, I think that it probably makes sense to go more toward a dribble-drive type of offense when both of them are in (like the Clippers used with both Kawhi and George), and look to pick n roll with Nurk (and Hart as a secondary playmaker) when either of them are out. It's one of the reasons I wouldn't mind Ant off the bench getting 30 mpg and closing games, but maybe that's not practical. I see all of these combos working well.

    Lillard or Simons/Hart/Little/Nurkic - lots of pick n roll
    Lillard/Simons/Little - With Lillard and Simons on the floor (and their ability to drive n kick) you don't really need any other ballhandling or guys that are great at setting picks so long as you have adequate spacing (I think we'd be looking for defenders/OK floor spacers that are great at switching). CJ could never provide that for us because he didn't get to the rim and, largely as a result, his playmaking was total shit. Would love to take a flyer on Mo Bamba with MLE as I think he could wreak havoc for 18 mpg behind Nurk with a defined role.

    The big question is finding a 4 that would fit with both styles. Jerami Grant/John Collins are obvious choices (especially if Nurk improves shooting) that could be available. I like Justise Winslow in a limited role as well (as long as there is enough shooting on the floor).
     
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  16. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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    The 2018 Rockets had Paul and Harden. They finished 65-17 and were up 3-2 over the Warriors when Paul got hurt.
     
  17. KSF-ERIC

    KSF-ERIC Well-Known Member

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  18. BoomChakaLaka

    BoomChakaLaka Well-Known Member

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  19. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to trade Dame unless we end up with two incredibly gifted guys in the draft and then with those two, Ant, Nas, Hart, what we could get for Dame and some of the guys we have that have a long way to go... we might need to say that it's time for a youth rebuild. Right now my idea is to see if my suspicions are correct and due to Ant's contract situation, unless there was a sign and trade offer that knocked our socks off, these two would have until the trade deadline next season to show what they can or cannot do. At that point if this looks like the redundancies are going to be as limiting as they were with the Dame/CJ situation then I would actually want to move Ant for someone that is a better fit with Dame and the rest of the roster, not move Dame but that's now and things do change. We'll just have to see how it goes.

    As for finding that redundant championship duo. Thomas and Dumars weren't both initiators of offense, despite Dumars's size he was a very similar player to Klay. Jordan and Pippen being redundant is funny, since Pippen was never a score first player and was a swiss army knife while Jordan was a stone cold assassin. Giannis and Middleton are completely different because Middleton is a shooter and perimeter defender while I guess you could say parts of anyone's game are redundant with Giannis's because he pretty much does everything but the dude is a big, while Middleton is a wing and Giannis is definitely not the outside shooter Middleton is. Kawhi and Siakam are the most similar of this group except for the fact that Kawhi was at the time a far better go to scorer, also Kawhi is naturally a perimeter player while Siakam has the versatility to play in the post as a big.

    As far as the entry from @KSF-ERIC goes I don't know if you can get two elite guards that are more different than CP3 and Harden, while both can initiate an offense at an elite level Harden looks to score first and pass second while Paul is the exact opposite and Harden is a decent defender while Paul is elite. Also why in the hell are we even discussing CP3 and Harden? I didn't want excuses for why a tandem didn't win a championship let alone a conference final.

    And speaking on defense, every single player mentioned above is levels above either of our guys on that end of the floor, in fact with the exception of Harden (who was in the tandem that didn't meet the singular criteria I was asking for) they're all extremely elite defenders... none of these players have redundancy of weakness like our two guys seem to and have had at this point. Again maybe they'll make me look like a fool and I hope they will. I don't at all mind being wrong when me being wrong means our team is better.
     
  20. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    great..then let's trade Simons
     

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