Annoyed about Batum not making all-Rookie 2nd Team

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Wizard Mentor

Wizard Mentor

Wizard Mentor
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I know that

O's the Show, but D Wins the Games

but defensive players...
get paid less, get a lot less respect (from the fans), and a lot less notoriety.

However, Batum slowed down the best players in the world.
Lakers? Batum guards Kobe, we win going away.
Denver, Batums guards Carmelo, we demolish them.
Batum is one of the best defenders in the NBA TODAY, but he can't even make all-rookie 2nd team. How annoying. Obviously, if he was one of the best offensive players in the league, he would be all-rookie 1st team.

I would say that there should be a rookie defensive player of the year, but they'd give it to an offensive player who at least played a little defense. Maybe there should be an all-rookie defensive team.

Put defense in the light where it belongs - and I DON'T mean blocked shots!
 
This was one helluva crop of rookies, I'm not annoyed at all. Batum played twenty minutes a night and while he certainly played good defense it wasn't what I'd call All-NBA caliber

Take a look here and tell me just how effective Batum really was guarding people: http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR6.HTM :dunno:
 
batum absolutely is not one of the best defenders in the nba today.
 
rocketeer said:
batum absolutely is not one of the best defenders in the nba today.
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I agree - but he most certainly was one of the best rookie defenders this year and is already pretty decent. He needs to mature and add a little bit of strength and muscle - but he is not one of the best defenders in the NBA today.
 
Nikolokolus said:
This was one helluva crop of rookies, I'm not annoyed at all. Batum played twenty minutes a night and while he certainly played good defense it wasn't what I'd call All-NBA caliber

Take a look here and tell me just how effective Batum really was guarding people: http://www.82games.com/0809/08POR6.HTM :dunno:
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which stats? there are literally dozens?

I watched Batum keep both Kobe and Melo from taking over the game. In fact, both were extremely frustrated - and that's only two data points. Numerous times during the season, Batum would guard the other team's best wing and shut him down.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
which stats? there are literally dozens?

I watched Batum keep both Kobe and Melo from taking over the game. In fact, both were extremely frustrated - and that's only two data points. Numerous times during the season, Batum would guard the other team's best wing and shut him down.
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I agree that Nicolas is a good rookie defender.

In any case look at the opponent's PER allowed statistic in that link I gave, which was 16.4 suggesting guys he matched up against were still able to perform at a high level even with him "shutting them down"

I'm not trying to bag on him, I like Nicolas and I think he's got tremendous upside, but my main point is that for the one thing he's supposedly so good at it wasn't good enough to get him recognized as a top rookie -- he just didn't play enough and in a prominent enough role.
 
Nikolokolus said:
I agree that Nicolas is a good rookie defender.

In any case look at the opponent's PER allowed statistic in that link I gave, which was 16.4 suggesting guys he matched up against were still able to perform at a high level even with him "shutting them down"

I'm not trying to bag on him, I like Nicolas and I think he's got tremendous upside, but my main point is that for the one thing he's supposedly so good at it wasn't good enough to get him recognized as a top rookie -- he just didn't play enough and in a prominent enough role.
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Simple, the statistic is not valid :lol: Why? Because, we NEED to know the PER of those players when they were guarded by everyone else. Who's the best wing defender in the league? Take the top 5 or 6 wings in the league (Kobe, LBJ, Melo...) and determine their PER for each defender in the league (some minimum number of minutes played). That would be a better statistic (though still not the ultimate one). Kevin Pelton, get er done!! :lol::lol:

The average PER for the best wing on each team is definitely above 15.0 - league average by definition. Is it as high as 16.4? Very possible.
 
Wizard Mentor said:
Simple, the statistic is not valid :lol: Why? Because, we NEED to know the PER of those players when they were guarded by everyone else. Who's the best wing defender in the league? Take the top 5 or 6 wings in the league (Kobe, LBJ, Melo...) and determine their PER for each defender in the league (some minimum number of minutes played). That would be a better statistic (though still not the ultimate one). Kevin Pelton, get er done!! :lol::lol:

The average PER for the best wing on each team is definitely above 15.0 - league average by definition. Is it as high as 16.4? Very possible.
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League average PER for wings is most definitely not that high. only 21 of 60 listed small forwards had a PER of 15+ and only 21 of 75 listed shooting guards had a PER of 15+ and it's not as if Nicolas ONLY guarded the best perimeter player when he was on the court.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sg&seasonType=2

For comparison's sake here is Shane Battier:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08HOU9.HTM
In each case he held his opponent to below fifteen PER (the average PER of a starter)

Here's Ron Artest:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08HOU10.HTM
Clearly he shouldn't be matched up against power forwards very often, but against small forwards he's also very very good.

That's the baseline for an elite wing defender in the league, Nic has a ways to go.
 
Nic had a great year, but I think a large factor in that was how low our expectations were for him this season. I don't believe he deserves to make the second team, but in the long run he will have a very successful career.
 
Nikolokolus said:
League average PER for wings is most definitely not that high. only 21 of 60 listed small forwards had a PER of 15+ and only 21 of 75 listed shooting guards had a PER of 15+ and it's not as if Nicolas ONLY guarded the best perimeter player when he was on the court.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?sort=per&qual=true&pos=sg&seasonType=2

For comparison's sake here is Shane Battier:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08HOU9.HTM
In each case he held his opponent to below fifteen PER (the average PER of a starter)

Here's Ron Artest:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08HOU10.HTM
Clearly he shouldn't be matched up against power forwards very often, but against small forwards he's also very very good.

That's the baseline for an elite wing defender in the league, Nic has a ways to go.
Click to expand...

Your arguments are becoming more and more convincing.
 
this was a good crop of rookies this year....so I can see how Batum didn't make 2nd team. I'm actually more irritated at how Love go snubbed again....

How in the hell did he not make 1st Team?!? He was better and a helluva lot more consistent than Beasley...yet Beasley made 1st Team? :dunno: All because of his name....the only time Beasley looked impressive was the last week of the season when Miami already locked thier playoff bid. For Pete's sake...Love had 29 frickin' Double Doubles...11 more than the next closest (Brook Lopez had 18)...while Beasley had 8!!!
 
NattaNerNuttaMan said:
this was a good crop of rookies this year....so I can see how Batum didn't make 2nd team. I'm actually more irritated at how Love go snubbed again....

How in the hell did he not make 1st Team?!? He was better and a helluva lot more consistent than Beasley...yet Beasley made 1st Team? :dunno: All because of his name....the only time Beasley looked impressive was the last week of the season when Miami already locked thier playoff bid. For Pete's sake...Love had 29 frickin' Double Doubles...11 more than the next closest (Brook Lopez had 18)...while Beasley had 8!!!
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No, no, it makes sense. The voters don't care about DEFENSE or REBOUNDING :biglaugh::biglaugh:
 
Natebishop3 said:
Love is in the west.... nobody on the east coast watched the Wolves.
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yeah, yeah...I see that...but still....Why does Love keep getting shitted on? I mean, seriously....what's the deal! Going of his court performance there is no reason he shouldn't be on the 1st Team
 
NattaNerNuttaMan said:
yeah, yeah...I see that...but still....Why does Love keep getting shitted on? I mean, seriously....what's the deal! Going of his court performance there is no reason he shouldn't be on the 1st Team
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You're right, KL had a pretty damn decent season if only because his rebounding rate and PER were so ungodly. But in the long run no one is going to give two shits about who made the rookie team, got rookie of the year or whatever other meaningless honor, it's all about the all-star game, the playoffs and winning a ring.
 
Ooooo...you guys are just plain ......MEAN!!! :devilwink:

But the thing is, we may not care....but the players do...they only get one chance to get rookie honors...and after Love was snubbed from All-Star weekend and was so low on the ROY voting...it was obvious these things meant something to him...even moreso when he did everything on the court to prove he belonged in consideration (outside of ROY of course)
 
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There's no reason he should have made it on the team. If Batum makes it, then so does LRMAM.
 
Going a little off-topic - but Minni seems like the team that I think will improve the most of the lottery western teams next year. I really like the Al-Jeff K-Love interior team - and they should get a pretty good pick for their perimeter with a high-draft pick now that they will have a different GM (can not get much worse, now, can it?).
 
andalusian said:
Going a little off-topic - but Minni seems like the team that I think will improve the most of the lottery western teams next year. I really like the Al-Jeff K-Love interior team - and they should get a pretty good pick for their perimeter with a high-draft pick now that they will have a different GM (can not get much worse, now, can it?).
Click to expand...

I hear ya, I'm a big 'Sota fan...but I'll be one of the first to admit we need ALOT of work...lol. But we have enoug to look forward to. With a healthy Big Al and Love...and like you mentioned the draft (which we have three 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders) we can do some moving and trading around to get another pick in the lotto. With the addition of say Rubio and a big...or even Harden and maybe Brandon Jennings....with the thought of Foye as a sixth man...we might be in good shape. We could also package up Miller and a pick for a Center or a Veteran SF...we're still some years off...but we're finally headed in the right direction
 
Annoyed by constant laughing faces :biglaugh::lol:
 
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