http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7423842 14. Richard Seymour, DE, Patriots-not even the best in teh division. Taylor is. 22. Al Wilson, MLB, Broncos: Def. are u kidding me? 24. Brian Dawkins, S, Eagles-I Think hes the best S in the Game, but he was hurt all of last year, and i would put him at 31, But still the first S 29. Torry Holt, WR, Rams-Top 20 NO DOUBT about it, especially after the season just had 38. Donovan McNabb, QB, Eagles-NO WAY, hes def. better than 30, and before last year, he was always a top 10 guy. U dont slip thatmuch after going to the Champ. game with no defense. 43. Roy Williams, S, Cowboys-Def. Better than Ed Reed who was at 37 48. Andre Johnson, WR, Texan-And not Anquan Boldin on this list? 49. Kearse-10 Sacks in 10 games before getting hurt. i see why he dropped, but not by that much. 47. Ricky Williams, RB, Dolphins-What an idiot, RIcky is Def. better than that. WHo I thought were snubs. Anquan Boldin, Ahmad Plummer, Dwight Freeney,CHad PEnnington, Cory Dillon, Antoine Winifield, HINES WARD, TRAVIS HENRY, erick moulds, . how stupid is this guy?. -How is Vick Higher than McNabb or Cullpepper? Vickplayed 1 year, and HOw many championship games has he been to? NONE. -WERE THE F IS DAUNTE CULLPEPPER? hes better than Number 3 MCNAIR. -If KEarse is that hight due to injury how is shokey rated better? -Heap is better than Shokey. -PEyton aint the Number 1 player without Edge James. -La ROi Glover is still a top 5 DT IMO, the Best player in the league is LaDainian Tomlinson. but like i said before, u cant rate "Best Player" in a game with 22 DIfferent Positions. PEter PRisco is officially the stupidest NFL "ExperT" that there is. i think he just listed the first 50 players he thought of.
Well it is a bad list, but these things tend to be arbitrary from the perspective of the rater. McNabb, IMO isnt a top 50 player. I dont think Kearse is either because of the injuries. To is about where he should be on preformance should be higher. Culpepper is hot and cold and not a top 50 player. I would move tomlinson over holmes Shockey is WAY!!!! better than heap. Peyton is number, and undisputed as the best player in the game, and if he had become a FA(that means free agent) he would have been offered the a contract by 25 teams that would he have signed it, it would have been largest in NFL history. Moss should be lower. Holt higher. Harrison is the best IMO Dawkins should be below ed reed(best safety in game) and roy williams. i am biased, but Urlacher a lot higher, Julian peterson down a couple spots. Arrington off the list. Fred taylor deserves on production, but how much can he have left? You know what take heap off the list completely Ricky up a few spots, he was hurt by bad line last year. Andre Johnson is on list over bolden because he is actually a better player. He can do more blazing speed, size, and leaping ability. When Charles rogers get going again bolden will be third best reciever in class. I would like to reiterate CULPEPPER is not better than MCNAIR. McNair is incredibly good. He was CO-MVP. You could put freeney on list the rest of players you mentioned arent top 50 players. I think there is a lack of OL on the list. I think a case could be made for matt hassleback, and maybe trent green I think stephen davis should get consideration. Laverneous coles and D. Mason deserves to be on list based on production over TO Mike rucker and adawale ogunleye deserve to be on the list over some. I would put parrish on list ahead of dawkins. Just to throw out best special team players K Vanderjagt(till he misses) P Sauerbrun KR Dante Hall
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'> Dawkins should be below ed reed(best safety in game) and roy williams. I would put parrish on list ahead of dawkins. </div> Dawkins is the Best FS in football over the last few years. Ask Marshall Faulk, Amani toomer, THe GREAT Mike Vick, and all of the other players he faced. Roy will probably go down as the best S ever, but not untill he moves to his true position which is SS. hes good as FS but overrated, SS he will kill at. Ed Reed, seriously comeone. Not even close, he makes INTs thats it. 3rd S in that class, No way is he better than dawkins Neither of them can cover or have any of the knowledge near what Dawkins has. TOny Parrish ahead of Dawk? are u kidding me? no, hes done. ONly Darren Sharper i would consider being with dawks category, but untill any S can cover like a Corner and Hit like a LB, in other words be the Ray LEwis of Safetys, Dawkins tops the list. Shokey is like Vick, tons of talent, but had 1 good year and injuries killed them. Heap passed him simply because of his endurance and proven ability over his career. Shokey had 1 and a half good years. McNabb and Culpepper are DEF. Top 50 players, especialy McNabb, he was mike vick before mike vick came into the league, then every1 dropped him. I agree with Urlacher being the second LB on the list. Way WAy way over LaVar overrated Arington. and Peterson. KEarse is def. on that list, i agree with him being in the 40s tho. Rucker and Ogunleye? nope, Ogunleye is a product because of TAylor, hed be a average DE at best w.o him.
1st, I dont see how you get on Shockey for being injured when he played more games than Dawkins last year.... 2nd, if you look at Brian Dawkins numbers, he doesnt compare to those other safeties that have been mentioned. Dawkins has never had more than 4 ints in a season, while Ed Reed has never had less than 5. Dawkins has averaged about 50 tackles a year over his career, while Reed's avg is 65. Roy Williams avg'd even more, at 72 per year. Parrish has avg'd 57 tackles a year for his career and has recorded a 9 and 7 int season. Its interesting that Dawkins best tackle season is less than Reed and Williams avg's. One thing about safeties, is that they either produce or they dont. They cant be avoided like CB's so thier stats are very telling. this is just another example you looking at the world through green and silver colored glasses. As much as I like Brian Dawkins, hes no better than the 6th or 7th safety in the league, and that might be a stretch.
Dawkins 6th or 7th Safety? nooooo way in hell. at worst hes the 3rd. he had a lis franc injury last year, that was his only injury plagued year. shokey has been injured more than dawk, and dawks been around since 96. shokey, 3 years. ed reed makes INTs. RW hits hard. like i said, once RW moves back to SS he will dominate, hes still a good FS but has nowere near the coverage ability, or knowledge that dwkins has. ed reed isnt great at all. he makes INTs and thats it. cant cover, cant blitz. Dawkins did benefit from Taylor and Vincent, but he was part of that trio. He didnt need to make the tackles, he laid people out and makes defenses have to game plan totally around him. What other DB has made that happen? like i said maybe Roy Williams is near Dawkins, and when he moves to his true position he is probably better, but no way in hell is Ed Reed better, NO Fin way. hes probably hte 5 or 6 best S. An aging Lynch, and Both Darren and Rod Woodson(BTW, did Rod retire?)are still better than Reed. Dawkins might be the one eagle i dont look at in green, but he is def. a top 3 S. and any other player/coach/"Expert"/former play/Football fan/ in the league would agree. maybe your just looking in anti eagles glasses.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TheBeef)</div><div class='quotemain'>1st, I dont see how you get on Shockey for being injured when he played more games than Dawkins last year.... 2nd, if you look at Brian Dawkins numbers, he doesnt compare to those other safeties that have been mentioned. Dawkins has never had more than 4 ints in a season, while Ed Reed has never had less than 5. Dawkins has averaged about 50 tackles a year over his career, while Reed's avg is 65. Roy Williams avg'd even more, at 72 per year. Parrish has avg'd 57 tackles a year for his career and has recorded a 9 and 7 int season. Its interesting that Dawkins best tackle season is less than Reed and Williams avg's. One thing about safeties, is that they either produce or they dont. They cant be avoided like CB's so thier stats are very telling. this is just another example you looking at the world through green and silver colored glasses. As much as I like Brian Dawkins, hes no better than the 6th or 7th safety in the league, and that might be a stretch.</div> Hell our new saftey last year dwight smith had more ints then dawkins, he was the third best saftey last year in ints behind minnisotas s and dexter jackson who dwight smith replaced. Smith had 5 ints last year and layed out some huge name receviers, amani toomer knows, he got rocked on monday night football and dropped a for sure td pass. Ed reed and roy williams imo are thee best in the game but when you wanna go the other routh and talk of hard hitting safteys that strike fear into wrs... Brian dawkins has to be right there with reed,williams and lynch. I think it was 2001 or 2002 mike alstott ran over ed reed and peter boulware for a 40 yard td run. Mike alstott got layed on his ass by dawkins last year in week 1. Tho some say dawkins hurt himself and his injury later took him out he still rocked alstott backwords. Dawkins may not be a great cover guy like the others but he for sure makes wr's look up quicker.
Bucs, i know that dawkins is a great cover S, and a sure tackle. aside from this year when he was hurt, he has been the most feared S in the game. reed isnt a great hitter anyway. i think that INTs dont matter when u have a top corner duo, and are playing in the box. Philly isnt know for turn overs anyway., hell we hardly get any, but we if u want to judge on INTs, then ed reed is the guy. Bucs the guy in minnesota is cory chavous, and i think the other S, brian russell(i dont really rember, some1 check) had like 8 to.
You cant be the best safety in the league, or even near the top if you are one dimensional. Dawkins does not produce like the top safeties in the game and thats a black and white fact. They numbers are not there for him. You can make whatever arguement you want, but if you continue to value "fear" over production, you are missing the boat. Safeties are not like corners, they can not be avoided. A good safety will rack up tackles and ints, no matter how good or bad his teammates are. Those are just the ABC's of good safety play.
All this safety talk and noone mentions the forgotten soldier. RODNEY HARRISON. I'll take his 100 + tackles to go with 3 sacks and picks. Plus there were countless ankle tackles on a RB about to break around the corner for a big run. The guy is awesome and I would put him in the top 5 and as for SS there isn't anyone decidedly better. As for your Seymore comment Dawk he would be the best lineman on your team if he went there. He isn't the 14th best player but he is a better all around DL than any lineman you mentioned and is a def top 5 lineman. Also Dwight Freeny sucks IMO. Well I should say very one dimentional. He is a pass rusher thats it. At least Jason Taylor can play the run a litte. Freeny just gets Owned by good tackles. He could even breath on Brady last season and we barely have to double him cus Matt Light (very underrated) just toyed with him. Another guy who maybe could have been the 50th or at least an honorable mention is Ted Washington. That guy changes an entire Defense.
As I read this thread I have to ask one question four times. How many Patriot's were on the "expert's" top fifty NFL players lists at the start of 2002 season? How many Marlin's were on the "expert's" top fifty MLB players list before before the 2003 season? How many Lightining were on the "expert's" top fifty NHL players list before the 2003-04 season? How many Piston's were on the "expert's" top fifty NBA players list before the 2003-04 season? I don't want to see many Lions on that list! Team sports need team players ... period.
You got it zack. As for thee best de's in football we can make an argument in tampa for simon rice. Check out his sacks yearly. He was second last year in sacks at 15. More then kearse and some of the names i seen. jason taylor,s rice,j peppers,d freeney, j kearse have to be elite imo. I dont think anyone would pass up an oppurtunity if they had a chance to land one of these players. But the bottom line is defensive lines are difintley better with these superstars. I will say one thing about brian dawkins i noticed with philly. The eagles arent a good team when brian doesnt play. He clearly is a diffrence maker for there team from what ive seen. Is he the best in the game no. But he is a key player for philly. Welcome back zack, i like the new look. A new hope.
Pats i think Seymour is a top 5 DE, but i said i think Taylor is better. i put Freeney there as a mention. i agree with Bucs that the top 5 are probly Taylor, Rice, Kearse(when healty) and Freeney and Seymor.. Peppers im not sold on, he had 3 sacks this year. and bucs, u nailed it. Dawkins might be the most energetic player in the league. i know Ray Lewis is to, but i think dawkins beats him on this. if u watch him on the sideline, hes nuts. I dissagree with Beef on stats. what a player does to your team, and puts fear in the eyes of WRs and QBs, i think carries more than stats.
I'm sorry but just cause they get sacks doesn't make them top lineman. There is more to line play than sacks. Of course no coach in his right mind would pass up a pass rusher I just don't think that because one player is special at rushing the passer that makes him decidedly better than another player who is special at stopping the run. Sacks aren't the endall for judging a top D-lineman. Seymore is the only true threat on our DL to rush the passer and still gets 8 sacks but he also blocks kicks and deflects a good amount of passes and plays both inside and out. Not to mention the multiple times he makes a QB change their arm angle when throwing. I just think you can't look at the sack leaders and see your best D-lineman in the league. Again though Seymore's not the best but certainly Freeney belongs no where near the top ten and maybe not the top 15 D-lineman in this league. If you want to talk Pass Rushers then ya he is elite Zack, Good post but in the media's eyes team players for some reason can never be great.
I dont think players are "afraid" of other players. No one goes into a game wishing they didnt have to face Brian Dawkins. If you think "fear" is more important than production, thats a bit silly. Rice is great, a top 3 end for sure. Rice plays the run well, and he forces fumbles when he sacks the QB. Seymour isnt really a DE anyway, hes a DT. He just moves to DE when the Pats play the 3-4. He a top 3 DT IMO.
Top DEs IMO Taylor Rice Kearse-when Healthy Rucker Peppers DTs Jenkins Seymour Stroud Simon McFarland
bus you mentioned two isolated incidents to compare dawkins and reed, so i have decided to you this method of comparison for some other players. grossman is better than brad johnson. I saw grossman throw a touchdown pass one game. I saw johnson throw an interception, this really show who the better QB is. brown is a better end then rice. I saw brown get a sack and FF on ONE play. I saw rice get blocked, i think this proves who the better player is. I could go on but i think i made my point. Ed reed is hands down the best safety in the league, he is only three years in but he plays with heart, makes plays vs the pass and the run(65+tackles) and he makes plays on special teams(one of the best players at blocking kicks) Harrison is good, and probably should be on list but i think there was a little age bias. If i could take any two ends i would take J.taylor and M. strahan. Sorry dawk i know you want eagles to have best player at every position but they dont, In fact, they dont have best player at any position.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'> Sorry dawk i know you want eagles to have best player at every position but they dont, In fact, they dont have best player at any position.</div> I know, they only have 5(6) players that are in the top 5 at their position. Do any other teams have that? McNabb Akers Dawkins Simon Kearse TO(maybe) and i cant believe we went a whole debate over DEs without bringing up probly the best. Michael Strahan. Bears just reminded me of him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BearsFan1)</div><div class='quotemain'>Harrison is good, and probably should be on list but i think there was a little age bias. </div> Bearsfan, I understand he is no spring chicken at 31 but I'm judging quality of play not age. Until I saw Rodney all the time I trulely didn't understand how good he was. Last season he was like our Ray lewis. He brings that sort of edge, not as vocal but makes the whole defense tougher. Even Eugene Wilson a rookie converted corner was blowing receivers up with no regard for his own body just cus he was playing next to harrison. Also there weren't many plays that you didn't see #37. He was locked up one on one many times on teams third receivers and I don't remember him ever getting burned and coverage was supposed to be his weakness. To be able to cover as well as he did for us and still play as if he was a 5th LB out there on the run made him invaluable to us. Not to mention the 130 tackles he had. I just think he really has been black marked because of his old school style of play and doesn't get the credit he deserves.
I would take Rodney Harrison over Dawkins any day of the week, he will give me something BD doesnt, All Pro level production....and as far as the "fear" thing goes, if players are afraid of anyone at safety its Rodney Harrison, hes proven over years to be a hard hitter who sometimes loses focus and hits illigally and dangerously....not a knock on him, but players know he could hurt them with a spear or a helmet to helmet collision... one note, Rodney Harrison is responsible for 2 Super Bowl wins in my opinion, last years Pats, and the 1999 Rams...without his preseason hit on Trent Green, Kurt Warner may never see the field and the Rams probable never catch lightning in a bottle....
