I used to put the Spurs in that category, but they don't have much youth at all. Every time I see the Suns play, they are so in sync with each other that it's scary. They're pretty deep too. Look who took the game-winning shot against Chicago (Leandro Barbosa).Besides, every player in their starting lineup is top-five at their positions. But of course, I could be wrong. Is there anything you could add or take away from the Suns to make them better?
Well to be a complete team, you have to play on both sides. And I don't think the Suns are at the level where they consistently play defense. There still a team that says we will beat you by scoring more than you. I mean look at their record in close games. It's a losing percentage because of the fact when it comes down to close games, you need stops. The Suns don't get enough stops when it counts and that is why there defense is not there yet. So in turn, their not the most complete team in the NBA imo.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I used to put the Spurs in that category, but they don't have much youth at all.</div>This seems to be the thing most fans say about the Spurs. Their old, well I don't buy that, their big three are not dinosaurs. And also, this is the Spurs management, who have done a great job of scouting and make personnel moves. Youth wise, I think they've started already with snatching up Jackie Butler and James White. I see them making more of a stride towards youth this upcoming season with the draft and free agency. As a couple of their vets are free agents.
They need defense. End of story. You can't have a complete team without defense. The Suns, IMO are the only elite team that isn't complete. When it comes down to a 7 game series, the real elite teams will shine.
I think the Mavericks are, but the Suns are getting there. They are still a pretty weak rebounding team but they are doing better and better. Their team right now is the best out of the 3 years. Before they always needed to run and outscore everyone, but this year they have won a few low scoring games and even found a way to win when they shot only 41% yesterday but showed some pretty good defense in the 2nd half to take the game. With Amare back they have an inside scorer which they didn't really have last year. They get to the line more and Amare has really progressed on the defensive side of the ball. His knee injury has made him a smarter player. He doesn't fall for pump fakes as much and has become a better shot-blocker(and not only from the weak side anymore). They do need to work on defense still so I don't think they are the most complete team at all but their D is not bad at all anymore and I think they'll be getting better at it by the end of the season. They just need to be more consistent, they can cause turnovers and make you have some bad shooting nights but they also let you back in some games.
IMO, it's the Mavericks. They have youth, they play with energy, score a lot of points yet still play great D, and a great bench. I have a feeling they'll be taking it all this year.
No way. They are not the most complete team at all, because they don't play defense. The most complete team to me is Dallas. They have offensive firepower, a good coach, much better defense than ever, good young players. They have it all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ProStix#6 @ Jan 3 2007, 03:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Besides, every player in their starting lineup is top-five at their positions. But of course, I could be wrong. </div>Not at shooting guard or small forward.Raja Bell? I'll name a quick five better than him: Kobe, VC, Hamilton, Ginobili, and Ray Allen.Boris Diaw? Once again, a quick five: Lebron, Melo, Odom, Artest, and AK-47.
I'm telling you guys, you take Nash away, this team wins 35 games at max. Nash makes them the complete team. And right now they are the most complete team in basketball right now. But they aren't perfect.The Suns need shot-blocking, height, and a solid backup pf/c. Stoudamire and Marion will get you about 3 blocks per game. The suns need another shot-blocker, preferably someone who comes off the bench. In their sign-and-trade with Atlanta they've got the rights to (if there is) a lottery pick this year. Adding someone like Al Horford or Joakim Noah would really help their team. They could come off the bench and use their shot-locking ability to keep the momentum the suns prefer. That way D'antonio would be able to keep minutes down on his big men who run more than anyone else in the league. Come playoff time they should be well-rested and ready.
I just don't know how any team can even be considered complete without being able to outrebound, or defend most other teams.
The Suns are definitely not the most complete team in the league. For me, I think that it is easily the Mavericks. Not only do they have alot of scoring options, but they can play on the defensive side of the ball as well. They have one of the best coaches in the NBA, and they easily have the best bench in the NBA as well. Although their starting center isnt the greatest, they have 2 centers that IMO, are about the same which makes them deep. Having Dirk Nowitzki as a #1 option for scoring is great, having Josh Howard for your 2nd scoring option is even better, but having Jason Terry as your third scorer is absolutley amazing to me. Last year in the playoffs agaisnt the Spurs, he went off scoring wise and led that team to the WCF. You can say that Phoenix has even more scoring depth in their starting lineup than Dallas, but Dallas just has all that a team needs....while Phoenix lacks defense. That is why I dont think the Suns are going to ever win a championship the way they play right now.
I hate to toot my (our) own horn, but I think it's the Mavs too. The Mavs have a better record, more depth, and have beaten the Suns twice this year, I believe. That's not a knock on the Suns. They have a good starting lineup... they struggle with injuries sometimes though, and their depth isn't the best in the world. The Spurs have excellent depth and are a great team as well. I don't know whether I'd put the Suns above the Spurs or vice versa, but they are both very complete teams.
<span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Arial">The Suns and Mavericks are both missing something that the Spurs have; tough, inside hoops. Dirk scores from jump shots, and the Suns get so many points on the fast break...with no one under the hoop. Amare has making alot of jump shots since his return and isn't so post oriented anymore, and Marion has always been more of a perimeter oriented player. The only player the Suns really have that's a true low block player is Kurt Thomas, and even he takes alot of jumpers, mostly baseline jumpers actually. if I were to pick something the Suns are missing, it would be a player to get them tough buckets on the block, reacting as a player who gets the opposing teams big men in foul trouble.</span></span>
<span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS">The Suns don't have many defensive players. As a matter of fact, correct me if I'm wrong please, Shawn Marion is the Suns' best player with both offense & D in mind. Amare Stoudemire can block shots but doesn't really have much of a defensive presence to the point where he can scare players from going to the rim.Anyway, on offense, the Suns may be close to perfect. Even the least used players contribute one way or another when they step on to the court. Overall, if the Suns continue playing the way they are currently, I believe Steve Nash can win a third straight MVP award.</span>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KWebb5 @ Jan 4 2007, 09:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Arial">The Suns and Mavericks are both missing something that the Spurs have; tough, inside hoops. Dirk scores from jump shots, and the Suns get so many points on the fast break...with no one under the hoop. Amare has making alot of jump shots since his return and isn't so post oriented anymore, and Marion has always been more of a perimeter oriented player. The only player the Suns really have that's a true low block player is Kurt Thomas, and even he takes alot of jumpers, mostly baseline jumpers actually. if I were to pick something the Suns are missing, it would be a player to get them tough buckets on the block, reacting as a player who gets the opposing teams big men in foul trouble.</span></span></div>I don't think you have been watching the Mavs this year. Erick Dampier has been pretty damn good. He's got a .655 FG% right now. That's over .150 more than last year. That is a very large increase over last year, and it speaks volumes about how hard he is playing this year. He is getting about 9 ppg, but that is really all that we need from him. Or do you disagree? I think 9 ppg is a pretty fair amount for a guy that is also splitting minutes with Desagana Diop.Amare can still be very explosive at times. If I watched him more I would disagree more emphatically, but I haven't seen him that much. I will only say that he has been very strong to the hoop when I have watched him.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (KWebb5 @ Jan 4 2007, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Arial">The Suns and Mavericks are both missing something that the Spurs have; tough, inside hoops. Dirk scores from jump shots, and the Suns get so many points on the fast break...with no one under the hoop. Amare has making alot of jump shots since his return and isn't so post oriented anymore, and Marion has always been more of a perimeter oriented player. The only player the Suns really have that's a true low block player is Kurt Thomas, and even he takes alot of jumpers, mostly baseline jumpers actually. if I were to pick something the Suns are missing, it would be a player to get them tough buckets on the block, reacting as a player who gets the opposing teams big men in foul trouble.</span></span></div>Amare is an inside scorer and that's where he will do his thing most of the time, but when he's shooting probably over 80% on his mid-range shot the last two games you can't get away from that. In a normal game he usually has a few mid-range shots but he's a great scorer in the paint. Diaw is also a very good post player with some pretty nice moves down there if we need him for that.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>The Suns don't have many defensive players. As a matter of fact, correct me if I'm wrong please, Shawn Marion is the Suns' best player with both offense & D in mind. Amare Stoudemire can block shots but doesn't really have much of a defensive presence to the point where he can scare players from going to the rim.Anyway, on offense, the Suns may be close to perfect. Even the least used players contribute one way or another when they step on to the court. Overall, if the Suns continue playing the way they are currently, I believe Steve Nash can win a third straight MVP award.</div>The Suns have plenty of defensive players. Marion as you said, Raja Bell(even though he needs to start focusing on D and not be in love with his shot so much), Kurt Thomas, either Jones that gets playing time, Marcus Banks if he ever gets playing time again and everyone else on the team has improved their D. Amare is not just a weak side defender anymore. He has become a better man-to-man defender, has improved his rebounding and he has become a better shot blocker even with reduced athleticism...he has just become a much smarter player. Nash still isn't anything special but is giving more of an effort on that side of the ball. Barbosa isn't bad at all and uses his long arms for deflections and Diaw has actually been really good. Last year he was a very average defender but since he's not having to defend much bigger players anymore he has done well. Him, Marion and Amare have been a really good defensive front court, better than I expected them to be at least and Diaw has made some nice blocks to stop easy lay-ups.The defense still has room to improve, but the Suns have the players to do it. Their overall team D needs some work and they have trouble with great shooters sometimes because they like to have a team get a quick, low-percentage shot off and sometimes that doesn't work.Justice, 9 points isn't too impressive even though I do think Dallas is a better team than San Antonio. I don't even think the Spurs would take a series to 7.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Justice, 9 points isn't too impressive even though I do think Dallas is a better team than San Antonio. I don't even think the Spurs would take a series to 7.</div>You're right. It's not. But you have to keep in mind that 1) he is splitting minutes with Diop and 2) he is not valuable in every game. If you go small and fast, then yeah, Damp isn't going to do a whole lot. Damp certainly isn't a 20/10 man, but he can go off and get 20/10 in the right situation. You probably couldn't even say that last year. Not on the Mavs.
Splitting time with Diop who gets 2 points... So not really much tough inside scoring, but with Dallas' D and other offensive weapons I don't think it matters.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ Jan 4 2007, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Splitting time with Diop who gets 2 points... So not really much tough inside scoring, but with Dallas' D and other offensive weapons I don't think it matters.</div>Okay, anyway, point is we made it to the finals last year, and our points down low are improved with Dampier. They aren't stellar numbers, but they are better. Good enough. Basically, we agree.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Justice @ Jan 4 2007, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't think you have been watching the Mavs this year. Erick Dampier has been pretty damn good. He's got a .655 FG% right now. That's over .150 more than last year. That is a very large increase over last year, and it speaks volumes about how hard he is playing this year. He is getting about 9 ppg, but that is really all that we need from him. Or do you disagree? I think 9 ppg is a pretty fair amount for a guy that is also splitting minutes with Desagana Diop.Amare can still be very explosive at times. If I watched him more I would disagree more emphatically, but I haven't seen him that much. I will only say that he has been very strong to the hoop when I have watched him.</div><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><span style="font-family:Arial">I totally agree that you shouldn't ask more than 8-10 points a game from Dampier, but how many of those are when he's getting the ball in the paint and making a nice strong move? Im guessing that most of those points are from offensive put-backs and running the floor. 65% from the floor from a guy that get's what, 27 or 28 minutes a game has to tell you something...he's not earning that percentage...guys are finding him wide open or he's rebounding. The Suns and Mavs are missing a guy they can go to in the half court here and there and get fouled and make free throws. And whoever commented about the Suns defensively...Marion, Bell, and Kurt Thomas are all three well above average defenders. </span></span>
The Suns aren't missing that player...again, Amare is that person. The majority of his 19-20 points as a starter come from the inside, he only gets 20-25% of his point from his mid-range shot and he is great at drawing fouls. And when they needed him, Diaw showed that last year he could post up and score that way too. Most starting centers can't guard that speed.Amare goes to the line just as much as Duncan and almost has equaled his point total.
