Trade Ben Simmons poll

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Rastapopoulos, Jun 21, 2021.

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What's the most you would give up for Ben Simmons?

  1. CJ + RoCo for Simmons and scrubs

    10.6%
  2. CJ for Simmons

    63.4%
  3. It depends on our new coach

    3.5%
  4. I'm not trading for that bum!

    22.5%
  1. Zach Collins Enthusiast

    Zach Collins Enthusiast Bored

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    I wouldn't offer anything more than just CJ for Simmons after his performance in the plsyoffs. And TBH I would rather keep CJ or use him in another trade
     
  2. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    Wow, taking one series and throwing out all of the promise of a player. I don't think that makes for a very good evaluation. Simmons is quite possibly the best defensive player in the league. I know we've spent 9 years acting like defense wasn't that important but it is. Then on offense he's a great ball handler, passer, slasher and finisher. He's also basically a seven footer. So yeah, I think he's worth CJ plus more assets and that's with what he brought to this point in his career. To expect he'll only bring the worst he's ever played isn't very logical.
     
  3. LenPa

    LenPa Member

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    I would rather go with Utnapishtim. Simmons is more worth than just CJ (of course I would appreciate it if they just would swap both) not just due to his defense and playmaking skills but also because of his upside (especially the playoff performance's show that (next to his missing shooting skills which are maybe difficult to train) he lacked some confidence which is a problem Blazers can overcome easily - and having Simmons with some confidence is better than CJ). But I can understand why you have some doubts in Simmons.
     
  4. Utnapishtim

    Utnapishtim Member

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    I love the draft. Even getting a low first round pick. An extra one is awesome! With that said, 2 non-lottery picks for RoCo? I was happy with that and am looking for better from him next season. CJ +2 non-lottery or protected top 9 picks for Simmons? I haven't been a big Simmons fan for a few reasons, but the Dame-effect on players has me all in with him.
     
  5. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    all this talk about how bad Simmons was in the playoffs, and how he's only worth CJ, and maybe a little more, because of that playoff performance

    so then, in the playoffs this year:

    PER: CJ 12.8....Simmons 18.1
    TS%: CJ .518....Simmons .562
    eFG%: CJ .500....Simmons .621
    reb rate: CJ 8.7%....Simmons 13.0%
    assist rate: CJ 17.0%....Simmons 35.7%
    assist/turnover: CJ 2.15....Simmons 3.83
    winshares/48: CJ .007....Simmons .173
    BPM: CJ -3.3....Simmons +4.3

    as flawed as his playoff performance was, he had a statistically better playoff performance than CJ, and the gaps were actually huge across the board

    I'd guess I wonder why the playoff performance of Simmons so dramatically impacted his value while the performance of CJ didn't?
     
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  6. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    I'd say because CJ had a bad series, while with Ben, it exposed some potentially very big flaws in his game that has many questioning fit with different types of other players.
     
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  7. glazeduck

    glazeduck Well-Known Member

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    Is that all it is? Good thing there are no fit issues with CJ or flaws in his game...
     
  8. RR7

    RR7 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say that CJ doesn't have any flaws.
     
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  9. Zach Collins Enthusiast

    Zach Collins Enthusiast Bored

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    These numbers are skewed by the fact we lost 4 out of 6 snd the Sixers won two rounds. Simmons was absolutely awfukl in the plsyoffs, so awful that the sixers want to trade him. We don't HAVE to trade for Simmons and it would be a bad place to start negotiation when you overrate him so much
     
  10. AmirIcon

    AmirIcon Well-Known Member

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    So then, CJ was so awful that the Blazers want to trade him with the same logic. He's a three time all-star and all NBA guy. Of course people are excited about trading for him.
     
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  11. Zach Collins Enthusiast

    Zach Collins Enthusiast Bored

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    *People who didn't watch the Sixers in the playoffs
     
  12. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I don't overrate him

    I just think talking about CJ and Simmons having similar value is nuts
     
  13. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    Is that really true?
    Why don't you go compare both of their career numbers in the playoffs then? Here's a quick hint.... (it isn't any better for CJ)
     
  14. Zach Collins Enthusiast

    Zach Collins Enthusiast Bored

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    CJ could at least stay on the floor in the playoffs and the Sixers looked much better with Maxey than with Simmons regardless of FT shooting. If we want to trade CJ we better bring back a good player, Simmons for CJ straight up could be decrnt value but there's no need to overhype him
     
  15. Zach Collins Enthusiast

    Zach Collins Enthusiast Bored

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    Why don't you do it?
     
  16. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I understand that, even though, as noted, CJ has issues with flaws and fit too

    I was just wondering how it was that Simmons is drowning under a tsunami to of criticism for his playoffs, relative to CJ, who just got his legs wet for a much worse performance

    by the way, for Philly, in the playoffs, Simmons was 3rd in PER, winshares/48, BPM, and VORP, while posting a very respectable .561 TS% and more than doubling any other 76er is assist rate. For sure there were flaws to his performance, but just as surely, Simmons became the scapegoat for Philly's failure
     
  17. tester551

    tester551 Well-Known Member

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    I did. Like I said, it's not pretty for CJ.

    Since you're too lazy to look it up yourself, here you go:
    BEN:
    upload_2021-7-27_13-0-40.png

    CJ:
    upload_2021-7-27_13-1-25.png

    The ONLY distinct advantage that CJ has is that he turns the ball over less & he shoots the 3.
     
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  18. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    if that was actually true, Simmons would not have had a +4.3 BPM while Maxey had a -1.2. That's a 5.5 points/100-possessions differential and that's a huge gap, especially considering Maxey only averaged 13 minutes
     
  19. Zach Collins Enthusiast

    Zach Collins Enthusiast Bored

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    You're using statistics no one understands and they're certainly skewed becsuse from what I've seen, Simmons was absolutely horrendous. If you watched the playoffs I can't see how you disagree. The Sixers fans burnt his jersey for god's sake
     
  20. Shaboid

    Shaboid Well-Known Member

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    Although I don't totally disagree with you, Simmons was pretty trash in the playoffs, I don't think the Philadelphia fans are a good bellwether for almost anything.
     

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