<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">If you put Shaq on the same Laker roster as last year, he would've done way better leading the Lakers than Kobe did. PG - Chucky Atkins SG - Caron Butler SF - Lamar Odom PF - Brian Grant C - Shaquille O'Neal. While they both wouldn't have won championships without eachother, it's a fact Kobe needed Shaq more than Shaq needed Kobe.</div> I agree i think that roster would have made the playoffs. Shaq is more important to kobe than kobe is to shaq.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Bobcats:</div><div class="quote_post">If you put Shaq on the same Laker roster as last year, he would've done way better leading the Lakers than Kobe did. PG - Chucky Atkins SG - Caron Butler SF - Lamar Odom PF - Brian Grant C - Shaquille O'Neal. While they both wouldn't have won championships without eachother, it's a fact Kobe needed Shaq more than Shaq needed Kobe.</div> I would say it was 50/50. First off, Miami is in the JV conference where ANYBODY can make the playoffs (even Charlotte) so to brag that Shaq had a better season isn't saying much. Second, the Lakers head coach resigned in the middle of the season, leaving them with a no-name coach with no experience. Third, the Lakers team just sucked, they had no balance and a lousy offensive system with no ball movement. I wouldn't say Kobe needed Shaq more because face it, you can't go to Shaq with the game on the line. Look at game 7 against Detroit, Wade was hesitant to give Shaq the ball because he knew that Shaq would BRICK the free throws. I gurantee if that were Kobe, he would have came through in the clutch.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">I would say it was 50/50. First off, Miami is in the JV conference where ANYBODY can make the playoffs (even Charlotte) so to brag that Shaq had a better season isn't saying much. Second, the Lakers head coach resigned in the middle of the season, leaving them with a no-name coach with no experience. Third, the Lakers team just sucked, they had no balance and a lousy offensive system with no ball movement. I wouldn't say Kobe needed Shaq more because face it, you can't go to Shaq with the game on the line. Look at game 7 against Detroit, Wade was hesitant to give Shaq the ball because he knew that Shaq would BRICK the free throws. I gurantee if that were Kobe, he would have came through in the clutch.</div> The Heat still would have been the 1st seed in the east in any of the other eastern conference divisions. Also Theirs more to a game than crunch time. They may not give Shaq the ball in the last minutes. but that does not take away from what he does in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and begining of the 4th quarter. Guards are USUALLY not ALWAYS, USUALLY the ones to take the game winning shots so comparing shaq to kobe in that aspect dosent make much sense.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">People say "Well, Kobe had Shaq", but Bird had Mchale, Magic had Kareem, and Wilt had West. Even Jordan had Pippen, another hall of famer on his team. So that excuse doesn't mean anything to me.</div> Youre comparing the likes of Mchale,an aged Kareem,Jerry West,and Pippen to Shaq in his prime?What a joke.Kobe was the 2nd option on that lakers team.Also,Kobe cannot do everything Jordan could do,and the things he can do like Jordan arent done on as high a level.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Rock4life:</div><div class="quote_post">I would say it was 50/50. First off, Miami is in the JV conference where ANYBODY can make the playoffs (even Charlotte) so to brag that Shaq had a better season isn't saying much. Second, the Lakers head coach resigned in the middle of the season, leaving them with a no-name coach with no experience. Third, the Lakers team just sucked, they had no balance and a lousy offensive system with no ball movement. I wouldn't say Kobe needed Shaq more because face it, you can't go to Shaq with the game on the line. Look at game 7 against Detroit, Wade was hesitant to give Shaq the ball because he knew that Shaq would BRICK the free throws. I gurantee if that were Kobe, he would have came through in the clutch.</div> First of all, I never said Shaq had a better season. Kobe did have a better statistical year, that was expected, but you could clearly see he couldn't do the things he could before when he had Shaq. Shaq had the bigger year impact wise, and almost won the MVP. That Laker team did suck, but would've been better if Shaq was on the team rather than Kobe. I will agree with you that Shaq isn't the best player to give the ball to in the clutch, and everyone knows that.
But the point is, Shaq will not win a championship without Kobe, and you can take that to the bank. Kobe, however, still has his opportunities.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RJ 21:</div><div class="quote_post">But the point is, Shaq will not win a championship without Kobe, and you can take that to the bank. Kobe, however, still has his opportunities.</div> Your saying the Heat don't have the chance to win a championship in the next few years?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RJ 21:</div><div class="quote_post">But the point is, Shaq will not win a championship without Kobe, and you can take that to the bank. Kobe, however, still has his opportunities.</div> How do you know? The Heat could win it next year if they don't sustain injuries at the wrong time again. Kobe obviously has a better chance because he's only 26 and has another 10 years, maybe even more.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting miamiballa12:</div><div class="quote_post">The Heat still would have been the 1st seed in the east in any of the other eastern conference divisions. Also Theirs more to a game than crunch time. They may not give Shaq the ball in the last minutes. but that does not take away from what he does in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and begining of the 4th quarter. Guards are USUALLY not ALWAYS, USUALLY the ones to take the game winning shots so comparing shaq to kobe in that aspect dosent make much sense.</div> True, but crunch time is the difference between winning and losing. Kobe most of time, made the clutch plays. Many times, he was the difference in winning and losing. That's why I say it was 50/50 All I'm saying is Kobe deserves more respect than what you are giving him. People make it seem like Kobe rode Shaq's back to 3 championships, which is not the case. To say he needs to win a championship without Shaq is like asking Jordan to win a championship without Pippen which was highly unlikely.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">True, all I'm saying is Kobe deserves more respect than what you are giving him. People make it seem like Kobe rode Shaq's back to 3 championships, which is not the case. To say he needs to win a championship without Shaq is like asking Jordan to win a championship without Pippen which was highly unlikely.</div> I agree that kobe dosen't as much credit as he deserves I never said he dosent deserve the championships. I just think Shaq was a more vital part in them.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I didn't say Kobe led the team or won the championship by hmiself now did I? I acknowledged in my earlier post, as a matter of fact, that Kobe needed Shaq and Shaq needed Kobe. And how about stats for the last Championship, huh? 2002-2003 Championship Season: Kobe: 30 PPG, 6 APG, 7 RPG, .82 BPG, 2.21 SPG Shaq: 27.5 PPG, 3 APG, 11 RPG, 2.4 BPG, .57 SPG</div> those are some pretty covincing stats, but the Lakers never won a championship that year.
where's the love for 'Nique on this list?! he's the most exciting player ever to play the game. doesn't that mean ANYTHING? EDIT: oops sorry for double posting..
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting lessthanjake:</div><div class="quote_post">where's the love for 'Nique on this list?! he's the most exciting player ever to play the game. doesn't that mean ANYTHING? EDIT: oops sorry for double posting.. </div> he's on the small forward list. He's ranked 8th.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Title in 2002-2003. He also went for 9+ games of 40+ points, and like 12 of 35+. Kobe killed that season and was robbed of the MVP. You want personal accolades? Oh my... Slam Dunk Champion, ASG MVP, Runner-Up MVP twice or so, Highest point scorer in Rookie Game (31 Points), 9 Straight Three-pointers in one game... RECORD... 12 Threes in a game... RECORD. Youngest player to start a game, youngest in ASG, and much more. </div> Well Iverson has 4 scoring titles, an MVP no runner-up?s but he actually got the trophy and the shortest player to accomplish that at that, ASG MVP, twice actually, Rookie Of The Year, #3 All-Time In PPG, #2 All-Time in Playoffs PPG, #3 All-Time in SPG, lead the league in SPG three consecutive years (nobody has ever done that), 60 points in one game, back to back 50+ points games, joins Gervin, Chamberlain and Jordan as the only players with 4+ scoring titles, youngest player to score 50 until LeBron James took that title away from him, only rookie in the history of the NBA to score 40+ points in five consecutive games, over ten 50+ career point games, over forty five career 40+ point games, first player ever to finish in top five in points, assists, minutes and steals per game in the same season, and also joins West, Jordan and Robertson as the only players to average at least 30 PPG and 7+ Assist in the same season, and this is just the tip of the ice berg, I could go on and on. So as far as individual accomplishments go, Iverson is near the very top among active players if not all the way on the top. All that he is basically missing is a championship ring. So when you take that to mind, and you realize now that AI is in similar situation Kobe has been for most of his career, like actually playing with a 2nd go to guy, you never know what might happen, but now that the table has turned and Kobe is now in A.I situation Kobe isn?t doing much. But what?s funny is that people cut Kobe some slack and say ?just wait till Kobe get his 2nd man?, but the thing I want to know is why didn?t anybody ever cut A.I any slack? So at the end of the day, if you look at all the predicaments and just basically the big picture, A.I is probably at the same level as Kobe if not a tad better. And as a footnote, don?t get things confused and think I?m saying Iverson is better than Kobe talent wise, cause there is no better than Kobe in talent in my opinion, but the most important part which is accomplishments these two are very identical.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting RJ 21:</div><div class="quote_post">Kobe almost won that Scoring Title in 2002-2003. He also went for 9+ games of 40+ points, and like 12 of 35+. Kobe killed that season and was robbed of the MVP. You want personal accolades? Oh my... Slam Dunk Champion, ASG MVP, Runner-Up MVP twice or so, Highest point scorer in Rookie Game (31 Points), 9 Straight Three-pointers in one game... RECORD... 12 Threes in a game... RECORD. Youngest player to start a game, youngest in ASG, and much more. Need I go on? Kobe is at least two levels above the rest, bro. Nobody is as clutch as him, and he can take over and score anytime he wants to. I agree with the second part, only time will tell what happens next. But at the end, I really do believe Kobe will be able to challenge MJ for no. 1.</div> How does winning the slam dunk contest even qualify him to be the 4th greatest player of all time at his position? That makes no sense to me. He was robbed of the MVP his team did not even make the playoffs how could he have been MVP. He was runner up in the scoring title race yet did not win it. When Allen has won it four times, been all star MVP twice, and been league MVP once. Any career ?accolade? Kobe has had Allen has doubled it. Also Kobe is clutch, but fourth greatest player fourth all time I say no. He shot under 40% in the finals when he tried to be ?the man? and take control, and showed he could not do it on his own.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting lessthanjake:</div><div class="quote_post">where's the love for 'Nique on this list?!</div> Nique was a beast!!! But he was a SF
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Poster Boy:</div><div class="quote_post">those are some pretty covincing stats, but the Lakers never won a championship that year.</div> OWNED
kobe and shaq needed each other equally to me...trust me shaq wouldm't have won rings with out kobe and vice versa..they both were great compliments to each other...kobe is a special talent...honestly i think if jordan wasn't around that much in the 90's Penny and Shaq woulda won a title or two..they couldn't have did without each other...u always need a two star-team..or a great defensive team to win a championship..truth of the matter is Iverson wouldn't have won wit shaq unless they were together in the 2004-2005 season..das when iverson really became a team player...as far as t-mac he wants to be top dawg right along with kobe so don't give me that BS..overall Kobe>Tmac & Iverson
the thing with Kobe is... no matter how good he is... unlike Jordan, he doesn't have the respect of his teammates... yeah they know he's a great player.. but they think the guy is selfish and a jerk... Jordan used to berate and yell at his teammates, but they respected him, they listened to him. Jordan was a coach on the floor, Kobe isn't. Mcgrady isn't. Lebron james, even at this young age, is by far a better "leader" than Kobe is.
