You better hope not. I've said on countless occasions, Doo-Doo Brown was a terrible coach for the Knicks. 44 starting lineups, bitching to the media, man, where do I begin. All I know is Brown won't be a good fit for this team.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MrJ:</div><div class="quote_post">You better hope not. I've said on countless occasions, Doo-Doo Brown was a terrible coach for the Knicks. 44 starting lineups, bitching to the media, man, where do I begin. All I know is Brown won't be a good fit for this team.</div> I think Isiah and the cap hell that he created are the main reasons for the Knicks current problems. It's not entirely Isiah's fault though, when you have an owner that has more money than god and play in a town that refuses (ironically) to allow the team to be bad for a few years while it rebuilds itself, you're going to have these problems. I'll bet that Isiah is out after this year. I'd love to see the Knicks get a GM who's got the guts to tell the New York fans and media that they're going to be bad for a couple of years while the team gets rid of the absurd contracts and rebuilds the team right.
I heard the Knicks are looking to swap Nate Robinson for Adonal Foyle and Channing Frye for Derek Fisher.
Isiah Thomas thinks he's Pat Riley now. This'll be fun to watch. Esp. when he whips out his 5 guard rotation.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">With Larry Brown back on the job market, Warriors executive vice president Chris Mullin's stance on the Warriors coaching job hasn't changed. The job is, and will remain, with Mike Montgomery. "We have a coach," Mullin said Thursday, hours after Knicks owner James Dolan announced Brown had been relieved of command, and the reins of one of the NBA's most storied franchises were being passed to general manager Isiah Thomas. Asked if the Warriors had any plans to talk to Brown, Mullin gave a one-word response: "No</div> Source
I don't understand how Mullin could be content with Montgomery so much that he won't even consider bringing in a hall of fame head coach to replace him.
I agree Clif, while it may be better to keep Monty (look at CR2's thousand pages of arguments as to why). There should always be consideration of other opportunities. While I think Baron and J-Rich are untouchable, that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider possible trades. The SMART thing to do is at least consider. But Mullin doesn't do that. He didn't consider what Foyle and Dunleavy would turn out to be.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AnimeFANatic:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree Clif, while it may be better to keep Monty (look at CR2's thousand pages of arguments as to why). There should always be consideration of other opportunities. While I think Baron and J-Rich are untouchable, that doesn't mean I wouldn't consider possible trades. The SMART thing to do is at least consider. But Mullin doesn't do that. He didn't consider what Foyle and Dunleavy would turn out to be.</div> I'm not so sure he isn't considering any of these things. Just because you tell the media you aren't considering something, that doesn't mean you don't. Think about it, if Mullin is 90% sure about Montgomery being the coach, he's going to think about Brown, but he's not going to tell the media about it. If Mullin knows he's probably going to stick with Montgomery, there is no good reason to tell the media he's considering Brown. All that would do is erode the team's confidence in Montgomery because Mullin isn't showing Montgomery his full support. Sure there is the benefit of Mullin saying that "he's considering every option" so he doesn't get called out by fans or the media for being close-minded. But I'm sure he's not nearly as concerned about what the fans and media think about his openess to new ideas as he is about the team's perception of his confidence in Montgomery.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting wtwalker77:</div><div class="quote_post"> Sure there is the benefit of Mullin saying that "he's considering every option" so he doesn't get called out by fans or the media for being close-minded. But I'm sure he's not nearly as concerned about what the fans and media think about his openess to new ideas as he is about the team's perception of his confidence in Montgomery.</div> I understand your argument. But aren't the players lacking confidence in Mike Montgomery? I don't think it's just the fans who lack confidence in Montgomery. Maybe I am phrasing this wrong when I say lack of confidence in a head coach by the players. I believe that could send the wrong message and seem condescending toward the players, so I should try to adjust that term maybe. But I know from comments made by the players, that they don't seem to grasp Mike Montgomery's game plans or the team's system on offense or even on the break(it is not a reach to say that the Warriors had the worst fast break in the league last season, mostly because of a lack of organization and communication; things Montgomery was "supposed" to be a master at bringing his basketball teams). And it's often said that Mike Montgomery is "still learning the NBA game" which will make everyone seize back at least a little confidence from this figure, especially a NBA head coach! The Warriors leadership system to me seems all twisted. In my opinion that is something that should be fixed before making too many roster changes.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Clif25:</div><div class="quote_post">I understand your argument. But aren't the players lacking confidence in Mike Montgomery? I don't think it's just the fans who lack confidence in Montgomery. Maybe I am phrasing this wrong when I say lack of confidence in a head coach by the players. I believe that could send the wrong message and seem condescending toward the players, so I should try to adjust that term maybe. But I know from comments made by the players, that they don't seem to grasp Mike Montgomery's game plans or the team's system on offense or even on the break(it is not a reach to say that the Warriors had the worst fast break in the league last season, mostly because of a lack of organization and communication; things Montgomery was "supposed" to be a master at bringing his basketball teams). And it's often said that Mike Montgomery is "still learning the NBA game" which will make everyone seize back at least a little confidence from this figure, especially a NBA head coach! The Warriors leadership system to me seems all twisted. In my opinion that is something that should be fixed before making too many roster changes.</div> I can't really say how much confidence the players have in Montgomery. It probably varies from player to player, but that doesn't really matter as far as this issue is concerned. The fact is that if Mullin were to show a lack of confidence in Montgomery, it would only decrease the players' confidence levels, no matter what they are. I'd bet that has more to do with Mullin publically stating he has no interest in Brown than him actually not having any interest in Brown.
According to players' interview, players do not seem to hate Monty. Maybe Davis in some degree, but other than that, there really wasn't an indication that players can't stand with Monty. Confidence on Monty is another issue though. Unfortunately, I haven't heard a single interview from players that Monty did a good job in two years. Even classy guys like Foyle or Richardson said "The coach is learning like a rookie coach". Because of their nature, they won't go in public and bash Monty. However, even with their best intent, they couldn't say Monty did a good job or can handle the NBA club for success. Actually, even Mullin said "Monty is learning", so that tells how people think of Monty's accomplishment in two years. But, do I really think Mullin will grab Brown? I really don't think so. First, I just don't see Brown coaching this year. He will get fat 40 mils check (good luck on Knicks for trying to shed that 40 mils, lol) and with the last year's disaster, he probably would like to take at least a year off. Also, almost all NBA teams would love to have Brown as a headcoach, and since the season for hiring coaches are already started, it would be better for Brown to wait and see which job is available. For us, it will take awful a lot of $ to convince Brown, and I don't think Cohan will shell out that much even though he is a fan of Brown. Also, bringing Brown means Mullin will take a backseat, and I don't think Mullin will do that willingly. But for next year, it may be totally different scenario though...
Give a coach the kind of players that can execute and understand his style of ball and maybe good things will happen. This applies to any coach. If we don't have the table set for that coach (i.e. Larry Brown) we ain't going anywhere. Give it a few years and let's not fire coaches every year or two because of a personnel problem that the GM chose. Not only is offense a problem right now for this club but so is defense. Take a look at SF/PF/C positions and their depth and see why this isn't so hard to figure out that it's going to be a low % fg shooting team taking high volumes of shots in the backcourt. If our frontcourt pieces were there we'd be running the bull through them more, but our guards are the only real offensive threats... and poor transition D + long missed shots leads to fastbreaks going the other way. ... poor bench depth leads to star players having to see more than 40 minutes a game.
get rid of Baron Davis if you want Brown to be the coach. Brown has to be the biggest ego on the court at all times. Look at the one team he brought a championship to - Detroit - basically a no-ego team.
Custodian just curious, because in nearly every post you seem to throw out your defense of Monty and saying it is not the coaches fault. I happen to strongly disagree. Look at the lakers, they finish with the same record as the warriors 1 year ago. They added Smush Parker and (really not worth mentioning kwame brown and andrew bynum...as during the regular season both pretty unspectacular... but ok a solid ten games from brown) and yet..... a different coach took virtually the same team taking the Suns to the task in the first round of the playoffs. the difference...... They got a "real" re: experienced and respected coach in Phil Jackson. I would be happy with at least a respected coach. MArio Elie, Terry Porter etc.... If not then an experienced one.. Brown, adelman again, doug collins or whoever So what am i missing? why was there an amazing turn around with virtually the same roster? And why couldn't that happen with the Warriors?
Larry Brown went to the NBA Finals with Allen Iverson. AI has a big ego. I also don't know if Baron has a very big ego, or if he hasn't been taught how to be a leader in the NBA yet. Maybe Larry Brown can turn Baron into more of the leader on the court that he needs to be; to match his level of talent. I don't know if Larry Brown is truely the solution, but he seems like a more correct answer than Mike Montgomery, in my opinion. It's too bad our bridge is burned with Rick Adelman. He seems to be a coach that can really get his young talent to play well and make his teams perform pretty well in the regular season. Maybe his post season record isn't the best, but I would take a coach with a shakey NBA post season record compared to a coach with a shakey NCAA post season record that Montgomery has.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting boogielew:</div><div class="quote_post">Custodian just curious, because in nearly every post you seem to throw out your defense of Monty and saying it is not the coaches fault. I happen to strongly disagree. </div> Monty is not the reason why this team is so bad, it's the players. This team was bad before he got here and when Musselman was here. The only difference is that fans expect a faster paced game or they expect more wins because Baron is on the team and injured most of the time. I don't defend Monty like I love the guy, I'm just merely against prioritizing blame against Monty more than the players he is given. It's a players league and he was not given guys chosen by him to win the best way he knows how. He was put in a losing situation and he has gambled by not playing certain guys ahead of others for whatever reasons understood by fans or not. He has gambled on choosing not to foul or playing prevent defense which has caused us to lose some games. Still, that's only judging one instance where the players didn't f themselves over by missing free throws, taking stupid shots, making bad decisions, and not being more active off the ball or playing organized together. The players just don't practice and they also don't fit in any way possible shape or form. We've changed the roster a few times and things still didn't work out because we're stuck with guys who are limited physically, mentally, or skill wise. Also Monty was hired as a rookie coach, so I give him a break as much as any other rookie that was not named Dunleavy. Not saying I'm happy with Monty over somebody more established, but look at the team he's inherited. It's less established than he is. At least Monty put together a few winning teams in about four years time back in college. Can't say that about the Warriors who just don't have a GM that knows how to win. It's different than college, but at least basketball is still basketball for the most part. It takes a foundation, teamwork, and a decent set of skills per starting position to make things happen. Then the coach can easily apply to make guys who know how to play the game even better. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting boogielew:</div><div class="quote_post"> Look at the lakers, they finish with the same record as the warriors 1 year ago. They added Smush Parker and (really not worth mentioning kwame brown and andrew bynum...as during the regular season both pretty unspectacular... but ok a solid ten games from brown) and yet..... a different coach took virtually the same team taking the Suns to the task in the first round of the playoffs. </div> The Lakers also took steps to add depth and improve play from the point guard and center spots, rather than just stand pat. Those spots are both crucial to a team's play and Kobe Bryant wouldn't have gotten the same support had it been from Atkins (who is an even worse defender than Parker is) and Chris Mihm (he's got offense, but not the best guy for defensive purposes or intimidation). I think Parker and Kwame Brown is a slight upgrade if Kobe is the one taking most of the shots. But the most important of them is that Kobe Bryant really improved his game this season (MVP worthy). If you want to say Phil Jackson made him better that's is your observation and opinion, but simply put I think Kobe Bryant played a great year on his own and found out ways to play with his teammates. The Lakers no longer had the guys that didn't want to play with Kobe's high volume shooting ways and it made for a better fit teamwork wise and for Kobe doing his thing. Also, you have to realize the difference between Odom playing 64 games the season before versus 80 games this season is a huge reason the Lakers stayed in it. While it's without a doubt a good coach can squeeze a few more wins out of a team by winning a close game, you need good players to make this a reality. I don't think we have those good players, so why prioritize firing a coach in return for a guy that may not get the job done either with our players. Why do this when a guy like Larry Brown may move on to better things because of all the frustration that the front office leaves their coaches. Plus, a good coach has full support from his GM. I don't think Mullin would support any coach that went against his decision-making like I bet most would. If Montgomery knew more about his players to begin with he would tell Mullin that he made a huge mistake by no getting playmakers like Brevin Knight and Chris Hernandez or capable big men that can run his offense just as well as the playmaker. Montgomery and I share the philosophy that your starters should be more or less prototypical position players and that they should all be moving on a posession to confuse defenses to where the ball is going and they should be able to play man-to-man defense. You should also have many secondary passing, ballhandling options. Instead, he's trying to find the mismatch that gives him those things and doing mostly the opposite on a lot of things he's done in his career. He's going away from his own strengths as a coach because its not the players strengths one way or the other. Bad fit for both the players and the coaches. But just because the coach is easier to move doesn't mean we should move him because we're giving up on him and we're impatient. Fix the players, give him a chance to do something with guys that can execute and maybe people will start kissing his ass the way Pistons fans did with Larry Brown. We've become a whole lot of Knicks fans right now blaming players, coaches, or both. Until we get that team that can win on its own regardless of coach influence, I don't think Monty is a huge problem compared to everything else that this franchise has invested a lot of money in. Remember, Monty ain't the one fking up at the foul line or standing around on offense and getting killed in defense. What is disturbing is he's putting lineups out there when somebody else could possibly do it better, but not enough to win ball games IMO. Not unless they get organized as a team rather than just play well individually. Compounded problems tend to point in different directions, some more obvious than others. I think with fans its whoever they can sum up in one sentence or two rather than accepting that this franchise has a lot of problems. I do not think that coaching is more of a problem than the way our team has mostly played throughout 12 losing seasons. I do not think it is a problem compared to the way our general management has historically been clueless as to what to build longterm. Did anyone truly believe that Murphy, Dunleavy, Jrich was a future core that could co-exist and that all it took was another player from the draft or through free agency and maybe a coach like Mike Dunleavy? We got the wrong ingredients both offensively and defensively to ever set true indentity which can be relied upon. Just like a building with no foundation or no formula to solve an advanced arithmetic problem, unless an inside-outside game is a reality and we have the defense to compete with, we ain't going anywhere with any coach. Not until we get that foundation in place, first. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting boogielew:</div><div class="quote_post"> the difference...... They got a "real" re: experienced and respected coach in Phil Jackson. I would be happy with at least a respected coach. MArio Elie, Terry Porter etc.... If not then an experienced one.. Brown, adelman again, doug collins or whoever So what am i missing? why was there an amazing turn around with virtually the same roster? And why couldn't that happen with the Warriors?</div> Well there was a turnaround with Kobe Bryant who scored more points per game than ever before and also improved his fg% accuracy. Then there was Lamar Odom being more healthy than he has been in years. Smush Paker didn't hate Kobe as much as Chucky Atkins and did some nice defensive type stuff. Kwame Brown made more big man impact than Chris Mihm did. The Lakers rookies got slightly better. Defense got slightly better. Not having Caron Butler probably changed some dynamics but it is hard to say whether he helped his team more than he hurt it. So unless the Lakers stood pat like Chris Mullin did with the Warriors, I can't really say Phil Jackson is the one who made it happen. Plus, when our best player is hurt most of the time and the Lakers best player is out kicking more ass than ever before, I'd have to believe it was the players and not the coach. Hell PJ ain't superman. We can blame his ass all we want for losing the championship to the Pistons or praise his ass for getting the Lakers the 8th seed, but the bottom line was that the Pistons had answers with their players and the Lakers offseason moves and franchise player is better than ours. We can't even answer anyone with our own unless we go to the one substitution that doesn't consistently work or comes at a wrong time because of foul trouble or fatigue.
Why do you keep blaming the roster? You keep saying these are'nt his guys, Custodian. Well let's look at that. Baron - traded for during Monty's reign j-rich, dunleavy, murphy, pietrus - were here before monty fisher, foyle singed or re-signed after the hiring of monty carbarkapa - brought in fom a trade during monty's reign biedrins, ike, taft, ellis all drafted during monty's reign bynum - free agent pick up during Monty's reign So only 4 players remain from the pre-Monty days. Now this is all from memory so i might have made a mistake.... but when over 75% of your roster is created while you are the head coach. I would say that it is your fault (Monty's fault that this team is not playing well or properly motivated to do so) and you DO have players that are who you wanted. So you are saying build the ship and when it actually floats then get someone to captain it and meanwhile deal with the repairs. If that is the case then you should be demanding that Mullin be fired as he is the true architect of this mess and why players don't fit. Like you said why bring Fisher in and sign him long term when he can't run, can't defend and doesn't fit any offensive scheme that doesnt have a tremendous post presence and a 2 guard that is also demands double teams as well. Obviously not for veteran leadership, is there a player even at the high school level that would have committed the moronic foul that fisher made at the end of this season. His basketball IQ is sub 85 or retarded. Why sign Foyle? he can't run either... I know, fear of not having a big man.. but why long term....another piece that doesnt fit. I, on the otherhand, believe with a respected and knowledgable coach we have enough pieces, if healthy, and are properly used ( i.e. derek fisher replaces cheaney at the end of the bench as designated cheerleader) we can make the playoffs with a year's growth. They are a young team and i think we need a young coach who relates to his players ala avery johnson and has the players respect. How can we go into this season with a team divided? And clearly after last season we are a team divided thanks to Monty's mishandling of personell. I would like to see Terry Porter brought in or promote from within with Smart or Elie.
First, I do want Monty to be fired, because he just didn't show enough that he can adjust in this league or motivate players to play hard. Also, even though he had flawed roster, he accomplished so little. That has been said, unless you are Riley, Jackson, Nelson or any coaches who also do GM's duty, coaches actually don't get involved with personal decision much. As a matter of fact, most coaches' job is to play whatever you are handed from GM. So, you can't really blame players which we acquired during Monty's reign. If nothing dramatic happens in one year, I will really start "Fire Mullin" campaign...
