Welcome everyone to the second bi-weekly Bulls Debate. This week we will have the members “TheFreshPrince” and “michiganave17” joined by "Swish15" and "Tarus515th". This debate will begin once the first reply is submitted and will last approximately 48 hours. If anyone is interested in participating in this game the next time, it comes around please send me a private message. Here are some rules and other things to remember…. 1. Only the people participating should post in this thread after the debate is over there will be a thread for discussion and voting. 2. You can only have a debate if the people involved disagree so please try to take opposing views on the topic. 3. Keep it to clean no personally shots Now down to the question….. This week Moo2k4 has come up with a twist in the competition to really measure how good of debaters you guys are. Each of you guys will have to pick one player on the Bulls roster and defend why he is the best player on the roster and the main key to the Bulls success. I had originally planned on assigning players to each participant but thought first come/first serve would be a more fair way to go about it. Anyway, good luck remember it’s about the way you debate not the point you take.
I'll start this off. I'm going to keep my opening statement short. Coming into this thread, every single contestant was probably thinking one name. Ben Wallace. To me, the choice is simple. Ben completes this team and turns them from playoff team to contender. The Pistons were held together by Ben's pressence in the paint and he is one of the best defensive players in the game. A solid big man is harder to find than a guard or a forward which is why a lot of the game's top centers get paid a whole lot of money. Big Ben is consistent and brings excellent defense, leadership, and intensity,to the Bulls. Ben Wallace is the best player on the roster and is also the most important guy to this team.
I would have to disagree with you. Our Best player is currently representing us in the FIBA World Championships. He has the best skill all around from scoring to defence hes got it all. and is probably the most underrated player in the league Mr. Hinrich!!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting michiganave17:</div><div class="quote_post">I would have to disagree with you. Our Best player is currently representing us in the FIBA World Championships. He has the best skill all around from scoring to defence hes got it all. and is probably the most underrated player in the league Mr. Hinrich!!!!</div> While I do agree that Kirk Hinrich is underrated, he is no where near the best player on the Bulls. Sure he is a very talented player but is he really more important than Ben Wallace? If Wallace goes down with an injury, this team's interior defense is suddenly terrible and teams would be able to take advantage of this hole. Meanwhile, if Kirk Hinrich goes down, you have a reliable backup in Chris Duhon who is capable of starting. Also, Ben Wallace is more important to this team not only on the court but off. With the addition of Wallace, the team gains an instant fan favorite, gains fan's excitement going into the season, and will sell tons of Wallace related merchandise. Big Ben is a very marketable player with his desire to win and his poofy afro so expect the Bulls to take advantage of this.
Lets be real Here, Hinrich has taken on more responsibilities than probably any Point guard in the league. His versatility is his greatest asset. I would call him a jack-of-all-trades. Great scorer Great distributor Great defender Great leader <u>Scorer</u> Hinrich is that type of guard who is going to hurt you any way you let him. If you give him the lane he will finish at the basket. Give him an open shot and he can knock it down. If it’s a 10 footer or a 3 pointer his team is confident that he can knock it down. And he gets to the lane often and gets fouled allot but for some reason the refs show him no respect. Once the whistles begin to blow in his favor he will surely be a 20 ppg guard. <u>Distributor</u> His skill as a distributor has been looked over in the league. Why do you think that Curry flourished while Hinrich took the Bulls by the Horns? His selflessness on the court allows him to know when to defer to a player that has better position or a better shot then he can create. He may not be flashy but he gets the job done. <u>Defender</u> Hinrich has what we call "Clamps". He can put the pressure on most guards in the league. He doesn’t play the lanes often so you wont get the steals that Ivo gets but you will get that Constant 1 on 1 Pressure. Especially playing man defense. He can even play guards that are allot taller/stronger than him. Forcing even the most elite guards to take ill-advised shots. <u>Leader</u> Hinrich has been the leader of the bulls since he played his first game. He’s is a guy who leads by example. He is one of the few PG's that plays with his all every time that he steps on the court. If it means ordering Gordon out of the way to run a play to perfection. Grabbing that key rebound. Making a game winning shot. Whatever coach asks he can provide and that’s what makes him the best player on the Chicago Bulls!!! That all around game is something vicious!!!!!!!!!!!!! I think allot of NBA fans takes what Hinrich does for granted. Honestly he is a coach’s dream. And his upside can be from anything from a Dennis Johnson to a Steve Nash. The sky is the limit for Kirk!! Go Bulls!!!
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, Ben Wallace is more important to this team not only on the court but off. With the addition of Wallace, the team gains an instant fan favorite, gains fan's excitement going into the season, and will sell tons of Wallace related merchandise. Big Ben is a very marketable player with his desire to win and his poofy afro so expect the Bulls to take advantage of this.</div> Getting fans excited doesn?t Make Ben the best player on the floor its what a player offers. Lets be real here. Teaming up with Hinrich is going to be the best thing to ever happen to Wallace. He?s going to get allot of easy baskets with Hinrich at the point guard. And with the addition if thabo to free him up defensively Hinrich can focus more on PG duties. Which will be a Bonus for everyone from Andriuskevicius to Gordon they all will reap the benefit of having a refreshed focus and more energized guard steering the ship. Hinrich will finally be able to focus more on the offence instead of worrying about beating Kobe Bryant back down the floor before he makes a breakaway slam. Hinrich's potential has yet to be tapped and when the chains are off this season you will see a more care free Leader on the court. If the PG is flourishing the team is bound to follow.
The best player on our team is obviously Andres Nocioni. Andres Nocioni played with a lot of heart every night all 82 games. I mean he comes out of know where to try and get rebounds. He is just a very strong, athletic, and aggressive guy. He was forced to play out of position and still was able to average better stats then a lot of taller PF big men taller them him who r demanding 60+ million. Yea i know stats do always mean ya better all the time but sometimes it does.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting taurus515th:</div><div class="quote_post">The best player on our team is obviously Andres Nocioni. Andres Nocioni played with a lot of heart every night all 82 games. I mean he comes out of know where to try and get rebounds. He is just a very strong, athletic, and aggressive guy. He was forced to play out of position and still was able to average better stats then a lot of taller PF big men taller them him who r demanding 60+ million. Yea i know stats do always mean ya better all the time but sometimes it does.</div> This is even worse than the Hinrich arguement. No way you can compare Nocioni to Wallace when it comes to importance to this team. Nocioni is a role player. He is replaceable and while he brings a lot to the table, Ben Wallace is a superstar and without him, this team is still a lower seed in the East.
Due to request I would just like to clarify that the question asks who is the main key to the Bulls success and in other words most valuable player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting michiganave17:</div><div class="quote_post">Getting fans excited doesn?t Make Ben the best player on the floor its what a player offers. Lets be real here. Teaming up with Hinrich is going to be the best thing to ever happen to Wallace. He?s going to get allot of easy baskets with Hinrich at the point guard.</div> This isn't just about most talented player, it's who is most important to the team. The fans in Chicago are pumped about this team (I'm sure you'll agree with that since your one of them). Ben Wallace has brought excitement back to the city of Chicago when it comes to the Bulls. That's pretty important if you ask me. Also, you made it sound like Ben Wallace has never played with a decent point guard before. Chauncey Billups is one of the better point guards in the league and he is arguably better than Hinrich. Hinrich will be good for Wallace but I don't think it's the best thing happen to ever happen to him.
I have another thing that Ben Wallace brings to this franchise; playoff experience. He knows what it is like to play in the big games and has started in 93 playoff games throughout the course of his career. This experience, and the fact that he has a championship under his belt, are significant points to mention in this debate. On a young team like the Bulls, having a veteren who has been in every situation is a very good thing. I think John Paxson puts it best when he says, "He continues to be one of the best defenders and rebounders in the game today, and his work ethic fits that of our coach, Scott Skiles. He knows what it takes to win and we're confident that he will come in and make an immediate impact on the Bulls organization. We feel very fortunate to be able to add Ben Wallace today."
YES!!! last one here, and my first chioce isnt taken! Ben Gordon is obviously the most valuable Bull. Gordon is the definition of clutch, even as a rookie. He finished second to only Lebron James in double digit fourth quarter scoring with 21 to James' 22. He accomplished this while only averaging 24.2 mpg. As a rookie he also became the first one to ever win 6th man of the year. Gordon is great off teh bench, and as a starter. His second and third years were more of a mix, and he still preformed great in the clutch. If it wasnt for Gordon, the bulls would have lost A LOT more games, and maybe enough to drop them out of the playoffs these last few years. The basic truth is, if a team doesnt have a go-to guy in the clutch, they cant close-out games.
Swish, Big Ben hasnt even played as a bull yet. How can you say that he is the most valuable Bull? He may not even preform half as good as he did as a Piston. Many feel that he was a product of their great system, and is geting too old.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Swish, Big Ben hasnt even played as a bull yet. How can you say that he is the most valuable Bull? He may not even preform half as good as he did as a Piston. Many feel that he was a product of their great system, and is geting too old.</div> We've seen what this team can do with Hinrich and Gordon and that is be a mediocre playoff team. Adding Big Ben turns them into a contender in the East. In a conference loaded with talented big men like Shaq, Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, and Jermaine O'Neal, you have to have a good big man if you want to compete. Now that the Bulls have Ben Wallace, it gives them a shot at representing the Eastern Conference in the Finals and a chance to win the whole thing. And like I said before, Ben Wallace is a marketing agency's dream come true. He is a fan favorite and he sells tickets, memorabilia, and gives the Bulls more nationally televised games. Is Ben Gordon marketable? Yes but no where near to the extent of Wallace who has appeared on video game covers, magazine covers, and commercials for T-Mobile. He is the ultimate marketing device and can be spotted by even the most casual of fans.
What does marketability have to do with your teams most valuable player? The nets thrived without a great big. Krstic is good, but not in the smae class as those other guys you mentioned. Sorry, but i think your argument is pretty weak considering that none of us know how much Big Ben is gonna help. Minny was considered the top team in the west before the 04-05 season, and look how they turned out. As for Hinrich, The bulls have a very good backup in Duhon that can bring in just as good as defense (not much of a drop-off at all), as well as solid distributing skills, and he may not be a scorer, but neither is Hinrich. Nocioni is also expendable with Deng being here, although no one brings as much as energy as him. Gordon on the other hand is the only guy on this roster that can be a big time scorer and finish off games int he clutch.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">What does marketability have to do with your teams most valuable player? The nets thrived without a great big. Krstic is good, but not in the smae class as those other guys you mentioned. Sorry, but i think your argument is pretty weak considering that none of us know how much Big Ben is gonna help. Minny was considered the top team in the west before the 04-05 season, and look how they turned out.</div> This debate is about which player is the most important/valuable to Chicago. Marketing comes into play because it shows Ben can make an impact both on and off the court for the Bulls. The Nets only had Krstic and what were they? A mediocre playoff team like I said. If you want to get to the top tier of teams like the Pistons, Heat, Spurs, and the Mavericks, you need to have a big man who can get it done. Now that the Bulls have Wallace, they can make a push for the Finals. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">As for Hinrich, The bulls have a very good backup in Duhon that can bring in just as good as defense (not much of a drop-off at all), as well as solid distributing skills, and he may not be a scorer, but neither is Hinrich. Nocioni is also expendable with Deng being here, although no one brings as much as energy as him.</div> You just repeated everything I said in my debates against those two players.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Swish15:</div><div class="quote_post">This debate is about which player is the most important/valuable to Chicago. Marketing comes into play because it shows Ben can make an impact both on and off the court for the Bulls. The Nets only had Krstic and what were they? A mediocre playoff team like I said. If you want to get to the top tier of teams like the Pistons, Heat, Spurs, and the Mavericks, you need to have a big man who can get it done. Now that the Bulls have Wallace, they can make a push for the Finals. You just repeated everything I said in my debates against those two players.</div> i know, i was just emphasising it because the other guys havent responded yet sorry, but i am not buying in to the marketing thing. How is Big Ben being the most popular guy in the nba (best case scenario which will never happen) make the bulls a better team? Him being popular may, and i mean may get them some more nationally televised games, so? The only possible thing that could help is that you may get a few more fair weather band wagon fans to go to games instead of the real die hards, since like you are saying they will be good, so likely selling out frequently. That doesnt sound like an advantage to me.
What how can anybody say Ben Gordon is our best player right now. He was our most inconsistent player on our team. On night he scores 20+ the next night he on the bench. Right now it is still Andres Nocioni. Like someone said earlier how is Ben Wallace our most valuable player if he hasnt played a game 4 us. Also how is Kirk our best player. Yea he is the Captain and all but that doesnt mean he is our best player. Nocioni was voted our MVP this season he could have been n the 3 point competition if he wanted too. I think he would have been most improved player if it wasnt 4 Boris Diaw. Right now their r so many players and teams that dislike him because of the way he plays against them.
Ben Gordon isnt our best player, he is the most important/valuable. All of your guys' choices are expendable. Even big ben, we have pj, nad we dont know how ben wallace is gonna play. Gordon on the other hand is our only pure scorer, as well as one of the most clutch players in the league. Without him, we would lose a ton more games.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">Ben Gordon isnt our best player, he is the most important/valuable. All of your guys' choices are expendable. Even big ben, we have pj, nad we dont know how ben wallace is gonna play. Gordon on the other hand is our only pure scorer, as well as one of the most clutch players in the league. Without him, we would lose a ton more games.</div> I'll answer that after I clean up this coke that I just spit all over the screen. How can you say Wallace is expendable, especially for PJ Brown. If anything, your center position is one of the weakest when it comes to depth.
