Can you actually tell that Vince isnt a good leader?

What games does it make evident that Vince isnt a good leader? Is it that he doesnt call huddles for the team himself? I dont see how ppl say he isnt when I cant really see visually what he does and does not do. And if you're a great leader, does it necessarily win more games for you? Is TMac a terrible leader? I really cant tell. I just think ppl are looking at last year and year before and labelling Carter that way for the rest of his life even if he brings them to the semifinals again. Too much burden is placed on Carter, he has to do it alone, and has more wins than many other ppl who should be doing better than him. Not only that but he's one of the friendliest and classiest athlete willing to stay in Canada, cuz I guarantee if he went over to America, he'd get alot more publicity and respect.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">What games does it make evident that Vince isnt a good leader? Is it that he doesnt call huddles for the team himself? I dont see how ppl say he isnt when I cant really see visually what he does and does not do. And if you're a great leader, does it necessarily win more games for you? Is TMac a terrible leader? I really cant tell. I just think ppl are looking at last year and year before and labelling Carter that way for the rest of his life even if he brings them to the semifinals again. Too much burden is placed on Carter, he has to do it alone, and has more wins than many other ppl who should be doing better than him. Not only that but he's one of the friendliest and classiest athlete willing to stay in Canada, cuz I guarantee if he went over to America, he'd get alot more publicity and respect.</div>
i agree with u that his team sucks like hell but he never wants to lead by example by trying.
look what happened when he tried: 47 pts vs bucks (bcuz of ray allen), 51 vs suns (NBC game), 30 vs. AD with a lot of passion and taking it to the hole.

i can keep listing...
anyway, he has the ability but he doesnt lead by example.

 

its not that VC isnt a good leader, iits just that he doesnt hav the skills needed to be a leader. Hes the best player, and their go to guy. but he isnt a true leader. mcgrady is the same. leaders are a lot of times older players that arent great, but are experieneced on and off the court and are liked by the whole team.

 

Harry_Balls5, I read your other post in the AD Disses Carter thread and it said that you won't tag anymore of intrepid1983's "gay ass posts" again. But the thing is, I look at the time of that post and it is 2:16 pm... And I look at the post you wrote in this thread and it was posted at 2:20 pm. 4 minutes after you told intrepid you won't tag any of his posts anymore you do it again! Anyways, I think Vince is a good leader, he steps up his game when critisized and is clutch. Thats what I look for in a leader. Clutch. Props to Carter for staying in Canada, for the same reasons Intrepid said.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">i agree with u that his team sucks like hell but he never wants to lead by example by trying.
look what happened when he tried: 47 pts vs bucks (bcuz of ray allen), 51 vs suns (NBC game), 30 vs. AD with a lot of passion and taking it to the hole.

i can keep listing...
anyway, he has the ability but he doesnt lead by example.</div>

what about 34 vs denver in november

what about opening night against jersey when he scored 39

what about when he scored 43 in atlanta and won the game for us

what about when he scored 30 against seattle and won the game for us

what about when he scored 42 against new orleas and won the game for us

and there are plenty more.

 

[quote name='Streetball2k3']Harry_Balls5, I read your other post in the AD Disses Carter thread and it said that you won't tag anymore of intrepid1983's "gay ass posts" again. But the thing is, I look at the time of that post and it is 2:16 pm... And I look at the post you wrote in this thread and it was posted at 2:20 pm. 4 minutes after you told intrepid you won't tag any of his posts anymore you do it again!/QUOTE]

yeah but this time he didnt make a "gay ass post". this time he just stated his opinion. he didnt try to insult other users and assume idiotic things.

i can respect other ppl's opinions even if i dont agree with them,. i just wont tolerate people making random assumptions and trying to tell me off without even considering my ideas.

also, do u just have nothing to do but stalk me or something? u dont need to follow every move i make. get a life!!

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">what about 34 vs denver in november

what about opening night against jersey when he scored 39

what about when he scored 43 in atlanta and won the game for us

what about when he scored 30 against seattle and won the game for us

what about when he scored 42 against new orleas and won the game for us

and there are plenty more.</div>
yeah a lot of those such as the opening day game are because the media disses him up and motivates him.

im just saying, if no one motivates him he wont motivate himself.

 

hmmm is it just me or do some of us have something against ....balls harry ...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting McGrady^1:</div><div class="quote_post">hmmm is it just me or do some of us have something against ....balls harry ...</div>
maybe some people do not agree with me but for the most part, people have been respectful of my opinions. i have no problems debating over issues. i like the hear other ppl's opinions whether i agree with them or not and i expect the same from other users.

unfortunately there have been a few pricks who have screwed up certain threads by making ill advased comments. other than that, every1 is cool. disagreeing is not a problem.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">yeah a lot of those such as the opening day game are because the media disses him up and motivates him.

im just saying, if no one motivates him he wont motivate himself.</div>

man, you cant come here and make "facts" up

iv watched about 98% of raps game this year, and been to a few. iv never heard the media dissing him before a game. which media are you talking about? provide a source and a quote if your going to make claims like that. if its your contention that vince only plays well when he's being called out, then how do you explain his entire season? are you saying he's been dissed before every game? none of those games were post-diss. just for your info, im sorry man, but your simply wrong.

if your going to make claims...provide some substance to back up your claims.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dj_premium_plus:</div><div class="quote_post">man, you cant come here and make "facts" up

iv watched about 98% of raps game this year, and been to a few. iv never heard the media dissing him before a game. which media are you talking about? provide a source and a quote if your going to make claims like that. if its your contention that vince only plays well when he's being called out, then how do you explain his entire season? are you saying he's been dissed before every game? none of those games were post-diss. just for your info, im sorry man, but your simply wrong.

if your going to make claims...provide some substance to back up your claims.</div>
im not making up facts. its true. sportsnet media doesnt diss him up but TNT is always talking trash about him. Barkley and Kenny r loads of smack and that motivates vince. even vince admitted himself that "we dont want to play bad on natinoal tv" when the raps beat the cavs on TNT.
ive backed up my opinion with facts too. i posts the games vince played really well in and gave the reasons. since u probably acciedntally skipped the posts ill post them again.:
-51 points (NBC game)
-47 (when ray allen got olypmic spot over him)
-30 (this season vs. AD. he took it to the hole too!)
-42 and 12 (vs hornets this season when raps were on a huge losing streak and Barkley was saying vince and raps suck)
-50 (vs phlili in playoffs after AI scored 54 on him)

i know there were some games when nobody said anything but vince played well. most of those games were mainly vs bad teams (he always scores over 40 vs hawks).

im not saying ALL the time some1 has to motivate him....im saying that MOST of the time some1 needs to motivate him. he has proven that when he feels like it he can play well too....but not on a consistant basis. however, when ppl motivate him he could play well on a consistent basis.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">yeah a lot of those such as the opening day game are because the media disses him up and motivates him.

im just saying, if no one motivates him he wont motivate himself.</div>

I find he does motivate himself. If he didnt motivate himself, he would not be Vince Carter: Slam Dunk Champion, Top 10 Points Leader, Clutch performer usually, regular Highlight reel athlete.
I think he's done really well this season, what more can you ask from him? If you make him try to go off on scoring every night, then the rest of his teammates wont get any better around him, and if he got injured, the teammates wouldnt know how to handle it. He's a good assist person. Much of the times the teams only focus defense on Carter. Cant expect Carter to run through a triple team every night, one person cant do it alone. And if one expects Carter to do better (aka bring Raps to the playoffs), and still consider McGrady as better than Carter, then why should he even try? Carter is tuff, he's a strong athlete, never complains, just takes it as it is. He should really get sportsman of the year award for never backlashing. He has a high tolerance for criticism for being so talented.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting intrepid1983:</div><div class="quote_post">I find he does motivate himself. If he didnt motivate himself, he would not be Vince Carter: Slam Dunk Champion, Top 10 Points Leader, Clutch performer usually, regular Highlight reel athlete.
I think he's done really well this season, what more can you ask from him? If you make him try to go off on scoring every night, then the rest of his teammates wont get any better around him, and if he got injured, the teammates wouldnt know how to handle it. He's a good assist person. Much of the times the teams only focus defense on Carter. Cant expect Carter to run through a triple team every night, one person cant do it alone. And if one expects Carter to do better (aka bring Raps to the playoffs), and still consider McGrady as better than Carter, then why should he even try? Carter is tuff, he's a strong athlete, never complains, just takes it as it is. He should really get sportsman of the year award for never backlashing. He has a high tolerance for criticism for being so talented.</div>
yeah hes done a great job this season. im just saying, he can do better....
i know he cant score every time but he is too lazy to take it to the basketb very often. i can understand it when he shoots when the lane is crowded but very often he takes fadaways with no one standing near the basket.

also, the guy is full of talent. thats y he scores more than 20 a night. im just saying he has the ability to score 30 ppg. he just needs to put his heart to it.

 

well one thing carter can do better is imo drive more and stop taking those off balanced fade away 18 -20 footers..those drive me insane especially when he takes like 4 to 8 of thos e in a row and MISSES....seriously he needs to realize his game is slashin and drivin it to the rack and going to the line ...i KNOW for a fact that we probably would have won a few more games or maybe alot more (i didn't count based on what i rememver) if vince didn't take those off balanced fade aways during crunch time.....
one of the games i remember most clearly is the one vs indiana ...they had TWO chances to win the game in the 4th qquarter ..it was tied....and two times he settled for those stupid fadeaways.....also the game vs no hornets...vince took the 3 and won.....but he was lucky it went in bc they were only down 1 and no need to take a 3 .....not to mention it was contested...

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting McGrady^1:</div><div class="quote_post">well one thing carter can do better is imo drive more and stop taking those off balanced fade away 18 -20 footers..those drive me insane especially when he takes like 4 to 8 of thos e in a row and MISSES....seriously he needs to realize his game is slashin and drivin it to the rack and going to the line ...i KNOW for a fact that we probably would have won a few more games or maybe alot more (i didn't count based on what i rememver) if vince didn't take those off balanced fade aways during crunch time.....
one of the games i remember most clearly is the one vs indiana ...they had TWO chances to win the game in the 4th qquarter ..it was tied....and two times he settled for those stupid fadeaways.....also the game vs no hornets...vince took the 3 and won.....but he was lucky it went in bc they were only down 1 and no need to take a 3 .....not to mention it was contested...</div>
haha yeah thats sooo true.

also that reminded me of something: jalen rose. LMAo the guy looks so funny when he tries to post up. he takes those really offbalanced shots inside but it goes in most of the time. its HILARIOUS. after making the shot he gives that weird look. it looks like hes going to kill some1 rofl.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">im not making up facts. its true. sportsnet media doesnt diss him up but TNT is always talking trash about him. Barkley and Kenny r loads of smack and that motivates vince. even vince admitted himself that "we dont want to play bad on natinoal tv" when the raps beat the cavs on TNT.
ive backed up my opinion with facts too. i posts the games vince played really well in and gave the reasons. since u probably acciedntally skipped the posts ill post them again.:
-51 points (NBC game)
-47 (when ray allen got olypmic spot over him)
-30 (this season vs. AD. he took it to the hole too!)
-42 and 12 (vs hornets this season when raps were on a huge losing streak and Barkley was saying vince and raps suck)
-50 (vs phlili in playoffs after AI scored 54 on him)

i know there were some games when nobody said anything but vince played well. most of those games were mainly vs bad teams (he always scores over 40 vs hawks).
.</div>

well thats new...before you were pretty much sayin that vince only plays well when he gets dissed by the media. you seem to have change your story a bit now...but i get your point

so what is wrong with a player using external factors to motivate themselfs before a game. as vince goes, the raps go....so if vince is using things like what the media says about him to pump himself up...good for vince. he still has good games otherwise, i think i proved that with stats as well. so you say it like its a bad thing...why is that so bad? you dont think s-jax gets pumped up to play the spurs? you dont think camby gets pumped up to play NYK?

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">yeah hes done a great job this season. im just saying, he can do better....
i know he cant score every time but he is too lazy to take it to the basketb very often. i can understand it when he shoots when the lane is crowded but very often he takes fadaways with no one standing near the basket.

also, the guy is full of talent. thats y he scores more than 20 a night. im just saying he has the ability to score 30 ppg. he just needs to put his heart to it.</div>

Yea, well in that context it's true. But he's said before that he doesnt care about scoring so many points as long as they get a W. But yea, we all want to see him perform really well.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting McGrady^1:</div><div class="quote_post">well one thing carter can do better is imo drive more and stop taking those off balanced fade away 18 -20 footers..those drive me insane especially when he takes like 4 to 8 of thos e in a row and MISSES....seriously he needs to realize his game is slashin and drivin it to the rack and going to the line ...i KNOW for a fact that we probably would have won a few more games or maybe alot more (i didn't count based on what i rememver) if vince didn't take those off balanced fade aways during crunch time.....
one of the games i remember most clearly is the one vs indiana ...they had TWO chances to win the game in the 4th qquarter ..it was tied....and two times he settled for those stupid fadeaways.....also the game vs no hornets...vince took the 3 and won.....but he was lucky it went in bc they were only down 1 and no need to take a 3 .....not to mention it was contested...</div>

Those fadeaway jumpers drive me insane too, theres another time i remember him doin it. They immediately inbounded the ball to him, he was totally open, he took it and faded away shot and missed, we lost that game. I was pissed off. As for the hornets game, he took the 3 and won, I give him props for that cuz most people would miss. No one would just immediately throw up a shot like that unless they had a feeling it would go in. I give respect for him, that shot wasn't luck, its not like the only time in his life he does things like that, but that shows under adversity he can score those crunch time points. Especially when you're down its even harder to get winning shots compared to when both teams are tied up.

 

Doesn't anyone remember where those fadeaways started? Last shot of the Philly playoff game. It the only shot he had for the win, but now he takes like 5 or 6 a game.

As for Vince being a leader, I agree he is a go to guy. He is not hard nosed though. So there are different types of leaders. What the raps need is someone to come in a take some of the spotlight. I was hoping that Rose would do it, but he spends more time talking about how great it is to play with someone as good as Vince, that it's almost sickening. Someone needs to push Vince to prove that he is as good as everyone says. Enough with the laid back approach to basketball in TO. Let's get some tough ass players in here that will protect Vince and put some fight back into this club.

This team is soft, and Vince is soft. The difference is that Vince has the skills to still get all the hype, even when his team has 2 consecutive 50 loss seasons. (I know they only have 48 this year, but let's be realistic)

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">yeah but this time he didnt make a "gay ass post". this time he just stated his opinion. he didnt try to insult other users and assume idiotic things.

i can respect other ppl's opinions even if i dont agree with them,. i just wont tolerate people making random assumptions and trying to tell me off without even considering my ideas.

also, do u just have nothing to do but stalk me or something? u dont need to follow every move i make. get a life!!</div>
Dude, why are you so quick to critisize me? I stated a true fact about your stupidity (sorry but I have to say it) and you come alone and accuse me of stalking you and not having a "life"? Please, stop this insanity.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting harry_balls5:</div><div class="quote_post">unfortunately there have been a few pricks who have screwed up certain threads by making ill advased comments. other than that, every1 is cool. disagreeing is not a problem.</div>
Am I one of these pricks? All I am doing is stating my opinion and as you said in the post above... its alright to do this. Yes, I agree that disagreeing is not a problem but why when I disagreed with your point did you attack me saying im a stalker? Please cool down, I dont want any enemies.