These two are very similar point gaurds in my opinion, because they can both score, both are clutch, and both can pass equally as well. Most people dont notice that both of them shoot horribly from the field. As neithier have ever shot better than 44% for their careers. Gilbert however gets alot of touches and that explains his near 30ppg. I also think the only reason Chauncey doesn't score 30 a game because he isnt the first option on offence on that Pistons team. So im kind of stuck on this one, whos better?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 12:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>These two are very similar point gaurds in my opinion, because they can both score, both are clutch, and both can pass equally as well. Most people dont notice that both of them shoot horribly from the field. As neithier have ever shot better than 44% for their careers. Gilbert however gets alot of touches and that explains his near 30ppg. I also think the only reason Chauncey doesn't score 30 a game because he isnt the first option on offence on that Pistons team. So im kind of stuck on this one, whos better?</div> As much as I love Gilbert, I'm going to have to say Chauncey in this situation. Arenas is a dynamite scorer, who despite being double-teamed alot, shoots a pretty good %. He can perform in the clutch and completely dominate a game through stretches. However, Arenas has yet to ever lead a team past the second round. The one time Agent 0 led the Wizards to the second round they were completely destroyed by the Heat. No one on the Wizards could find their jumpshot and it resulted in the Heat sweeping the Wizards. Also, Arenas tends to go into 'Hibachi mode' where he chucks random three's wether they go in or not. It may somewhat fit in with the Wizards playing style but he should tone it down a slight bit. First thing about Billups, he's a better passer than Gilbert. Arenas has improved his playmaking ability since he first came on Washington but by no means does he compare to the passer Chauncey has become since he's been on Detroit. Also, Arenas is much more explosive and more of a dynamite scorer than Chauncey. When Gilbert slashes, he either gets fouled our hits an easy layup. These two's playing styles are not as similar as you seem to believe. Only reason I'm taking Billups over Arenas is because Chauncey has lead the Pistons to a championship getting a finals MVP award along the way. He also leads Detroit to perennial ECF appereances. Until Arenas starts leading the Wizards to perennial ECF appereances I can't put him ahead of Chauncey.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 19 2007, 01:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>As much as I love Gilbert, I'm going to have to say Chauncey in this situation.Arenas is a dynamite scorer, who despite being double-teamed alot, shoots above 50%. He can perform in the clutch and completely dominate a game through stretches. However, Arenas has yet to ever lead a team past the second round. The one time Agent 0 led the Wizards to the second round they were completely destroyed by the Heat. No one on the Wizards could find their jumpshot and it resulted in the Heat sweeping the Wizards. Also, Arenas tends to go into 'Hibachi mode' where he chucks random three's wether they go in or not. It may somewhat fit in with the Wizards playing style but he should tone it down a slight bit.First thing about Billups, he's a better passer than Gilbert. Arenas has improved his playmaking ability since he first came on Washington but by no means does he compare to the passer Chauncey has become since he's been on Detroit. Also, Arenas is much more explosive and more of a dynamite scorer than Chauncey. When Gilbert slashes, he either gets fouled our hits an easy layup. These two's playing styles are not as similar as you seem to believe.Only reason I'm taking Billups over Arenas is because Chauncey has lead the Pistons to a championship getting a finals MVP award along the way. He also leads Detroit to perennial ECF appereances. Until Arenas starts leading the Wizards to perennial ECF appereances I can't put him ahead of Chauncey.</div>Whoa to clear something up, Gilbert Arenas has never shot above 50% in his whole career. I also thought about what you said about Billups, but I think if Arenas had the exact same company as Chauncey, they would be champions too. Chuancey had Rip Hamilton, the best player in the NBA in moving without the ball, he had a more than average tayshaun prince who can rebound and shoot a very high percentage, he had a three point shooting big men who averages 15 and 8. he had arguably one of the best defensive centers all time in ben wallace, and a decent bench. Gilbert doesn't even have close to that, let alone a half decent center.
I am gonna say Gilbert. Neither are really true playmaking PG's, but Arenas is a far better scorer than Chauncey. Better shooter, better slasher, and has better overall scorer instincts than Chauncey. He can lead his team with 30PPG and simply take over and drop 40, 50 points on some nights. Arenas will also rebound the ball better, and IMO is more of a clutch player than Billups.Billups is a better playmaker, but not lightyears better. He is also a much better defender, but he is not a lockdown guy, and has shown dents in his armor.Overall, I can understand if someone to say Billups is more well rounded, but Arenas is just a much better scorer who can carry a team with 30PPG. Billups really isn't the kind of player that can carry a team with any specific skill.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 01:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Whoa to clear something up, Gilbert Arenas has never shot above 50% in his whole career.</div> Ah, dammit that's a typo. I meant to write 'A respectable percentage'. I will edit that in a little bit. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I also thought about what you said about Billups, but I think if Arenas had the exact same company as Chauncey, they would be champions too. Chuancey had Rip Hamilton, the best player in the NBA in moving without the ball, he had a more than average tayshaun prince who can rebound and shoot a very high percentage, he had a three point shooting big men who averages 15 and 8.</div> Even if Arenas was surrounded by Wallace x 2, Hamilton, and Prince he still would likely be the #1 scoring option on the squad. The team would mesh together much differently as Arenas doesn't play the 'true PG' role. The team would continue to be solid, however, it would take Gilbert some time to adapt to the sitaution. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Gilbert doesn't even have close to that, let alone a half decent center.</div> The Wizards are a completely different team compared to the Pistons. You can't just take Arenas and put him on the Pistons then expect the Pistons to be exactly the same team. As I noted to before, Arenas will not become the passing PG that Billups has become on the Pistons.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 19 2007, 01:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I am gonna say Gilbert. Neither are really true playmaking PG's, but Arenas is a far better scorer than Chauncey. Better shooter, better slasher, and has better overall scorer instincts than Chauncey. He can lead his team with 30PPG and simply take over and drop 40, 50 points on some nights. Arenas will also rebound the ball better, and IMO is more of a clutch player than Billups.Billups is a better playmaker, but not lightyears better. He is also a much better defender, but he is not a lockdown guy, and has shown dents in his armor.Overall, I can understand if someone to say Billups is more well rounded, but Arenas is just a much better scorer who can carry a team with 30PPG. Billups really isn't the kind of player that can carry a team with any specific skill.</div>I dont know if thats something to compare them by, but he only rebounds better by like 1 or 2 per game. Anyways, I was leaning to Gilbert because of his scoring presence, but he can hog the ball at times and you will see him get streaky from time to time too. He doesn't shoot very well eithier, so if thats the edge you give him, I wouldnt put him over billups. If he shot as much as Arenas, he would be a 30 ppg scorer too. 11 fga per game vs. around 21 for arenas. If we do it statistically, (meaning if billups shot 10 more shots per game at 42%, his current avg, he would be scoring around 8 more points per game, putting him at around 25ppg. Which is not far from gilbert whos scoring 28 a game. Im still undecided, so id like to look at some more opinions first.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 19 2007, 01:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Ah, dammit that's a typo. I meant to write 'A respectable percentage'. I will edit that in a little bit.Even if Arenas was surrounded by Wallace x 2, Hamilton, and Prince he still would likely be the #1 scoring option on the squad. The team would mesh together much differently as Arenas doesn't play the 'true PG' role. The team would continue to be solid, however, it would take Gilbert some time to adapt to the sitaution.The Wizards are a completely different team compared to the Pistons. You can't just take Arenas and put him on the Pistons then expect the Pistons to be exactly the same team. As I noted to before, Arenas will not become the passing PG that Billups has become on the Pistons.</div>I would agree but then again, its the same thing I said to Nitro. He doesn't have people to 'set up' per say so we dont know what he would do if he had the chance. Hes been conditioned to play the Wizards style offense. Which is another reason he goes for 30 a night. We know Arenas can pass, and I wouldnt put it past him to become some sort of a playmaker, no Billups style, but definetely a playmaker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 01:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I would agree but then again, its the same thing I said to Nitro. He doesn't have people to 'set up' per say so we dont know what he would do if he had the chance. Hes been conditioned to play the Wizards style offense. Which is another reason he goes for 30 a night. We know Arenas can pass, and I wouldnt put it past him to become some sort of a playmaker, no Billups style, but definetely a playmaker.</div> Despite the Wizards having a big three, Caron Butler and Gilbert Arenas are the two that mostly create for other teammates. Antawn Jamison usually puts up a flick shot in the post or shoot's a three thus he can create for himself but not for others. It's not like the Wizards have no roleplayers to set up. Last season Arenas had the oppurtunity to dish the ball to perimiter shooters in Jarvis Hayes and Darius Songaila along with DeShawn Stevenson who proved in the playoffs that he needs someone to create for him. So despite all these people potentially being created for, it seems as though Caron and Gilbert share the role in not only setting up the offense but giving teammates open jumpers. Arenas could create for many people on his team. Arenas can pass, but he still focuses on scoring the ball rather than passing much more than Billups does. As I said, if you were to put Arenas on the Pistons, he would not want to play Billups role but want to play a similar role to what he did in Washington. He will pass during certain portions of a game but still wouldn't contribute as much as Billups does in Detroit. --- BTW, raptorsfan, he doesn't shoot well because he is often double-teamed. Billups shoot's a low percentage even with one defender on him. The Pistons force the defense to play honest with Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, and Webber on the floor which is very resourceful as all of these players can beat their man off the dribble.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont know if thats something to compare them by, but he only rebounds better by like 1 or 2 per game. Anyways, I was leaning to Gilbert because of his scoring presence, but he can hog the ball at times and you will see him get streaky from time to time too. He doesn't shoot very well eithier, so if thats the edge you give him, I wouldnt put him over billups. If he shot as much as Arenas, he would be a 30 ppg scorer too. 11 fga per game vs. around 21 for arenas. If we do it statistically, (meaning if billups shot 10 more shots per game at 42%, his current avg, he would be scoring around 8 more points per game, putting him at around 25ppg. Which is not far from gilbert whos scoring 28 a game.</div>Billups is also very streaky, and he doesn't have the kind of defensive pressure put on him as Gilbert has. He doesn't deal with the double teams that Gilkbert does, and most of the time the best perimeter defender on the opposing team is playing Hamilton rather than Billups. Billups simply doesn't have the scoring talent or pure instincts that Gilbert has. Going by if Billups shot more is not the way to do this kind of arguement.And to your reply to GArenas, Gilbert is also the set up guy for the Wizards, setting up and runnign the offense.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 19 2007, 02:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And to your reply to GArenas, Gilbert is also the set up guy for the Wizards, setting up and runnign the offense.</div> Actually you often do see DeShawn Stevenson run the offense. In Eddie Jordan's NBA adaption of the princeton offense there are two guards not a PG who sets up the offense and a SG who often ends the offensive set with a jumper. When Caron is playing at the 2, you see him bring it up the court often as well. Gilbert still is the guy who sets up the offense and creates for his teammates the most on the Wizards. I said this in my post. However, Chauncey who runs all the PG duty's on Detroit, does a better job seeing the floor and creating than Gilbert does. Chauncey has embraced the PG position in Detroit. He clearly still has his scoring mentality, but Billups has been becoming more and more of a 1 since joining the Pistons.
I'd say Arenas is the better player but I think Billups would fit in with more teams chemistry wise.Arenas score first mentality at the 1 would disrupt the flow of some teams, whereas Billups shoots less and runs a team better and would be able to adapt his style of play to work with more teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jul 19 2007, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'd say Arenas is the better player but I think Billups would fit in with more teams chemistry wise. Arenas score first mentality at the 1 would disrupt the flow of some teams, whereas Billups shoots less and runs a team better and would be able to adapt his style of play to work with more teams.</div> I agree, Arenas is the more talented player. His explosive slashing ability along with his jump shot together create a dynamite scorer. That is what Agent Zero is. However, as you stated in your post, Arenas forces every team he's on to alter their game-plan to revolve around him. Meanwhile, Billups can fit into any system and instantly contribute. He creates for his teammates a great deal and still puts up a solid 20 points a night. Arenas also refuses to embrace the role of being a leader. He gives that job to Antawn Jamison and is happy with his position as 'team clown'. Meanwhile, Billups embraces being a team leader. Most likely because he's a good 6 years older than Gilbert but either way, the franchise player would be the ideal leader. Arenas is clearly the more talented player but Billups has more of a positive effect on a franchise.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GArenas @ Jul 19 2007, 01:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Gilbert still is the guy who sets up the offense and creates for his teammates the most on the Wizards. I said this in my post. However, Chauncey who runs all the PG duty's on Detroit, does a better job seeing the floor and creating than Gilbert does. Chauncey has embraced the PG position in Detroit. He clearly still has his scoring mentality, but Billups has been becoming more and more of a 1 since joining the Pistons.</div>Yes, he does, but he is still not really an elite playmaking PG. Most of his assists come from Hamilton coming off screens and Billups making the very simple pass. He is a fine playmaker, better than Arenas, but we aren't talking about Jason Kidd or Steve Nash here. As I said before, nothing about Billups is dominant or makes him capable of carrying a team for any extended period of time. That is the deal breaker for me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 19 2007, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Yes, he does, but he is still not really an elite playmaking PG. Most of his assists come from Hamilton coming off screens and Billups making the very simple pass. He is a fine playmaker, better than Arenas, but we aren't talking about Jason Kidd or Steve Nash here. As I said before, nothing about Billups is dominant or makes him capable of carrying a team for any extended period of time. That is the deal breaker for me.</div>but what about team chemistry?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticFan @ Jul 19 2007, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>but what about team chemistry?</div>We are talking about who is the better player, not who might be a better fit on certain teams due to style of play and attitude. And it depends on the team. Billups would not be as effective on the Wizards as Gilbert is, and same with Gilbert on the Pistons. Different teams have different needs. Neither are really disruptive players who other players hate, so it's not like it's comparable to Nash vs Artest or something like that.
In almost every category I would say Gilbert is better except play making... but Gilbert still isnt even that bad with that and he could be excellent at it because we have seen he can pass but Gilbert is a scorer and probably the most unstoppable offensive force in the NBA right now... He is a little better rebounder than Billups and is better clutch player (IMO the best clutch player in the NBA also)... I mean... He ain't my favourite player for nothing
This is a very good comparison, and I think I have to go with Billups. Like said, both of them shoot a low percentage, and both of them have a career high of 45% from the field. Both players get cocky and like to put up bad shots as well. The only reason Arenas averages more points is because he is the scorer for his team, while Billups is more of the distributer of the Pistons. Billups has also led his team to the NBA Finals a couple times, and once won it, landing Finals MVP. What puts Billups over Arenas is his defense. Billups is just the better overall defender.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (x.Scrappy.x @ Jul 24 2007, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>In almost every category I would say Gilbert is better except play making... but Gilbert still isnt even that bad with that and he could be excellent at it because we have seen he can pass but Gilbert is a scorer and probably the most unstoppable offensive force in the NBA right now... He is a little better rebounder than Billups and is better clutch player (IMO the best clutch player in the NBA also)... I mean... He ain't my favourite player for nothing </div>I wouldn't say Arenas is a better man-to-man defender than Billups. Billups holds his own in that aspect of the game, while Gil is still trying to learn how to stay in front of his man. Gilbert is a top five offensive force in the NBA, but I don't think he's the best.. it can be argued, but he doesn't score as consistently or efficiently as the likes of Kobe or TMac (when he's hot).
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>I wouldn't say Arenas is a better man-to-man defender than Billups. Billups holds his own in that aspect of the game, while Gil is still trying to learn how to stay in front of his man.</div>Sorry I actually missed that out... and I do agree on you with that... Gilbert isn't a very good defense player at all but I still stick with Gilbert being better...<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Gilbert is a top five offensive force in the NBA, but I don't think he's the best.. it can be argued, but he doesn't score as consistently or efficiently as the likes of Kobe or TMac (when he's hot).</div>I have to agree but disagree with this... I definately think Arenas is more of an offensive threat than TMac... Gilbert has been one of the top scorers in the NBA for two seasons (I think) now and I'm afraid, right now TMac isnt matching that... But I knew that Kobe would come up when I said Gil was the most unstoppable offensive threat in the NBA as I argue with my friends about this... They also say Kobe is more unstoppable than Arenas and I generally can see where you come from with this as Kobe is no doubt one of the top offensive forces in NBA history and he does average more the Gilbert... But I can say this lol... Gilbert dropped 60 on Kobe and the Lakers (Thats my excuse everytime)... Nah I totally agree Kobe is unstoppable but I just love Gilbert
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (x.Scrappy.x @ Jul 24 2007, 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I have to agree but disagree with this... I definately think Arenas is more of an offensive threat than TMac... Gilbert has been one of the top scorers in the NBA for two seasons (I think) now and I'm afraid, right now TMac isnt matching that...</div>Umm...no. T-Mac had a horrible start to the season and took a few weeks to re-adjust to Yao being back in the lineup. When Yao was out for 32 games, T-Mac averaged 30/6/5 on 45% shooting. He is taller than Gil, more consistent than Gil, has more moves to get himself a good look than Gil, and he isn't as much of a chucker as Gil.Aside from the scoring, T-Mac is also the better playmaker/decision maker.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Umm...no. T-Mac had a horrible start to the season and took a few weeks to re-adjust to Yao being back in the lineup. When Yao was out for 32 games, T-Mac averaged 30/6/5 on 45% shooting. He is taller than Gil, more consistent than Gil, has more moves to get himself a good look than Gil, and he isn't as much of a chucker as Gil.Aside from the scoring, T-Mac is also the better playmaker/decision maker.</div>For a start this isnt a discussion about TMac and you might think that he has better moves than Gilbert and all of this other stuff... Gilbert is the one averaging almost 30PPG and you might be able to say TMac had a bad start to the season and he had to adjust with Yao gettin back into the line-up... that really doesn't make a difference because if he was such a threat as you say he is... he wouldn't be starting off bad and he would be good enough to adjust to Yao coming back...
