cleveland 04'-05' roster wish list

I think we all agree that Clev needs an outside shooter, preferably a veteran, and preferably a free agent so we don't have to lose anyone... well, I did some checking, and here is a good sized list of possibilities... some are free agents, some under contract, some old, some young, some are SG's, some are SF's, some are cheap, and some are.... well, Allen Houston.

No particular order, but the top group are the guys Cleveland fans want to get, or think that the cavs might have a shot at. The guys on the bottom are.... well, helpful I guess.

And for comparison, here are their outside shooter's numbers (I focused ONLY on 3 pt shooting numbers for everyone):

Jason Kapono- .477 from 3 pt range, 21 of 44 attempts
Kedrick Brown- .388 on 26/67 attempts
Jeff McInnis- .388 on 31/80
DaJaun Wagner- .360 on 31/86
LeBron- .290 on 63/217
(and some say Wagner has more value than Kapono????)

Top of cav fans wish list, but unlikely to be able to get any of these guys:

#1- AK47 Andrei Kirilenko/Utah 6'9" 215lbs 23 yrs old, superstar in the making. He averaged 16.5 pts, 8.1 rbs, 2.8 blks, and 3.1 assts. He shot .338% from 3 pt range on 68-201. He is under contract, and I don't think Utah would trade him to Cleveland unless we were talking Boozer or LeBron. If we had him and Booz and LeBron, we are talking Championship contenders. He would be our 2nd superstar. And what sucks, he was the 24th pick in 1999. Hmmm... who did we take that year? (Andre Miller, and then somebody named Trajan with the 13th overall... sheesh)

#2- Hedo Turkoglu/SA 6'8" 220, good ballhandling and great passer .419 3pt % on 101 of 241. 9 the spurs won?t let him go with how good he?s playing now plus he?s also under contract, and would be hard to trade for.

#3- Emanuel Ginobili/SA 6'6 210 26 yr old Good shooter, passer and defender. .359 3 pt % on 88 of 245 and he's a free agent.... but very unlikely the spurs will let him go (I know they won?t), and they have room to sign him.

Guys we have a good shot at:

#1- Raja Bell/Utah 6'5 210 27 yr old Good shooter, good defender and he's a free agent. He shot .373% for 3's on 62/166. I'm pretty sure Utah wants him to sign, but we might be able to lure him away. I think he would be a good fit for the cavs, and not impossible to get.

#2- Shane Battier/Mem 6'8 230 23 yrs old Intense, great defender, NOT a starter so Memphis might be willing to trade him. .349% on 3's on 65 of 186 A natural fit on this team with Boozer, and I think with LeBron. He's a smart player who would provide solid defense. Not super athletic, but neither is Boozer, and look how effective a fundamentally strong player can be! I think we could get him reasonably cheap.

#3- Morris Peterson/Tor 6'7 218 He is who we shoulda taken, but he dropped to the 21st pick, and we got Chris Mihm (Yeah, baby! Not.) I liked his college game, and it has translated well in Toronto. Solid defender. Shot .371% on 126 of 340. Toronto is in disarray, so they may not make any moves til they settle on GM and coach.... but given the right deal, Mo Pete could be had for a reasonable price I'd think.

Notice the one commonality of these 3, besides decent range, is they are all solid defenders. A solid defending SG or SF with 3 point range is exactly what the cavs need I think.

Guys they could get, I suppose, who'd be an improvement of some sort:

#1- Brent Barry/Sea 6'6 210 33 yr old Folks... Barry can shoot... really shoot!... he shot .452 from 3 pt range this year!! .45 % from 3 pt range people! That is better than most players regular FG %! He hit 114 of 252, AND he's a free agent! The big downsides are his age, and his poor defense. Another plus is he is an excellant passer and team player and would really help improve our ball movement. He could be a short term (2 yr) filler til we develop someone else. Aside from the defensive side, he would improve our team. I'm not sure if he would want to leave the west coast, or what Seattle's cap #'s are.

#2- Gorden Giricek/Utah 6'6 215 26 yr old. Hit .395% on 60 of 152... but this cat couldn't cover a bed with a blanket. Pure gunner... but he can shoot. Oh, and he's a free agent. I think Utah would let him walk.... but I think they'd be better off developing Kapono and Kedrick.

#3- Old Freddie Hoiberg/Minn 6'5 210 and only 32 but it seems like he's been around forever! Very solid .442 % on 3's! Hit 76 of 172. He is a free agent, and I think could be had by them. However, I don't think he is starter material, so I would pass.

Guys that can still play, but I think are too expensive:

#1- Allan Houston/NY Solid shooter, .431 on 87 of 202, but just not worth the big money.

#2- James Posey/Mem .386 on 112 of 290 Local kid, but he's got a good sized contract, and I'm not sold on taking on that much $.

#3 and #4- Cutino Mobley/Houst and Aaron McKie/Phil Good range for both of them, but too expensive.

So to me, Raja Bell, Shane Battier, Mo Pete, and maybe Brent Barry are guys we should target. I'd be thrilled with any of the first 3, and happy if they got Barry.

 

The Cavs arent going to get or even persue half of the players you mentioned. LeBron will work on his threes this summer and everything will be fine.

 

Ive read that Silas is very high on getting Brent Barry this off season. That would mean letting EWill walk and another trade coming to free some cap space.

 

I personally do not want to go after Barry. Yes he does have some attributes that help this team, but the fact is we'll be over paying for them, again. I'll be happy with the signing, but pissed with the money.

As for the original list, where is Stephen Jackson? Worth a mention. Person to is an outside thought.

 

Barry is the type of player the Cavs need but I only wish he was a few years younger. I doubt he would come to Cleveland anyway. He's a west coast guy.

Turkoglu is a FA and would be a realistic option for the Cavs. As would Jackson.

The Cavs really need to add a starter at either SF or SG and also add at least one more shooter off the bench. This team has no consistent outside threats and needs a huge upgrade in that area.

Hoiberg would be a decent addition off the bench. He can shoot and also isn't bad in other areas. I'd rather see the Cavs go for more all around type of players that 1 dimensional shooters. Adding a Hoiberg type off the bench would be good.

I have read and heard that Mo Peterson is a player the Cavs might go after. He can hit the 3 but has been a little inconsistent and didn't have a great year last year. He's still young and shouldn't cost a ton so is worth looking at. I think he does need to get out of Toronto.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">#3- Morris Peterson/Tor 6'7 218 He is who we shoulda taken, but he dropped to the 21st pick, and we got Chris Mihm (Yeah, baby! Not.) I liked his college game, and it has translated well in Toronto. Solid defender. Shot .371% on 126 of 340. Toronto is in disarray, so they may not make any moves til they settle on GM and coach.... but given the right deal, Mo Pete could be had for a reasonable price I'd think.

Notice the one commonality of these 3, besides decent range, is they are all solid defenders. A solid defending SG or SF with 3 point range is exactly what the cavs need I think.</div>

HAHA, take him, we don't want him lol please take him.

 

Hey og15,

Could you give us a rundown on Mo Pete. His strengths and weaknesses. I seen him play a few times, killed the Cavs with about 7-8 threes, and other games be M.I.A. I realise he was bad this year and inconsistent in the previous few, but what is your take seeing you have probably seen him rather consistently.

 

He is very inconsistent, he can shoot but he's streaky at times with his three point shooting. Mo is a good defender though, so thats a good thing.
He will probably be better off on a team like the Cavs because he's good in a running system he's a good player in the open court, but in the half court offense all he did was go and wait in the corner for the three. Seing Mo-Pete drive the ball was a rareity, and it was scary at times when he actually drove.
He's very bad at creating for himself in the halfcourt, and he needs to work on his handles and also expanding his offensive game to more than spot up three's on the wing or in the corner.

Sign and trade for Kedrick Brown, that would be good

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting og15:</div><div class="quote_post">He is very inconsistent, he can shoot but he's streaky at times with his three point shooting. Mo is a good defender though, so thats a good thing.
He will probably be better off on a team like the Cavs because he's good in a running system he's a good player in the open court, but in the half court offense all he did was go and wait in the corner for the three. Seing Mo-Pete drive the ball was a rareity, and it was scary at times when he actually drove.
He's very bad at creating for himself in the halfcourt, and he needs to work on his handles and also expanding his offensive game to more that spot up three's on the wing or in the corner.

Sign and trade for Kedrick Brown, that would be good </div>
Thanks og15,

That summation sounds scarily like a more established version on Kedrick Brown. Good defender, streaky 3 point shooter with no handles. The fact you say he runs the floor well, does really help the Cavs, because after we shipped Davis, then Miles, we lacked that athlete to run with James on the wing. Defense is a bonus, as I hadn't paid much attention to that part of his game.

He definately shouldn't be high on the list, but at the right price Peterson is an ok option.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Sign and trade for Kedrick Brown, that would be good </div>

You probably would be getting the same exact thing from Kedrick as you did from Mo. Ked stands at the wing and awaits a pass to hoist a 3 ball.

 

Yea but Brown is younger, and more atheletic, and who said he'd be playing but we could polish him on the bench to later become a okay defensive stopper. Mo Pete I don't know if his game can be polished.

 

You said you were scared og15 when Mo Pete went to the hole. Well you wont have to worry about that with Kedrick. He averages like 2 free throws a season due to his complete lack of penetration game. He is very raw with his handles, which leads to hesitant offense.

 

The Mo Pete description does sound just like Kedrick like you guys said. He would be an option that should come fairly cheap. He'd help some but I doubt he'd have a huge impact on the Cavs.

I read some bad news today from Chad Ford from ESPN. Not sure if it's 100% true but he wrote that after the Cavs pick up McInnis' option that they'll be $1.6 million under the cap. That's if they also don't resign Williams. That means the Cavs would have little to spend on FA's and couldn't use their mid level exception since they wouldn't be over the cap.
This means the Cavs wouldn't be able to add any quality FA's and we can forget about Jackson, Turkoglu or Barry. You'd almost then like them to resign Williams for short term to put them over the cap so they can use the $4.5 million exception on a FA.

This is from Chad Ford so it may not be 100% reliable but he's pretty good with info like this.

 

^^^^ Thanks Narl for that update. That certainly throws a spanner in the works. Now it seems we need to sign Williams so we can sign another free agent. Quite a bizarre set of circumstances. If we do bring Williams back, can it be no longer than a 3 year deal.

 

I heard that Chad Ford also said that Ilgauskas and Wagner would be on the trading block. (Can anyone post the article on here?)The second seems more likely than the first.

I believe Z needs to be with the Cavs for at least two more seasons before a trade is considered.

Wagner, on the other hand, might be a good guy to showcase at the beginning of the season to build up trade value. I just don't trust Wagner's potential.

Anyone?

 

I was thinking about Raja but he may be a bit immature and a suspect shooter at times.

 

i subscribe to insider and have read the chad ford article several times over, considering our situation. the basic jist of it is that z's trade value has never been higher, he is not in the long term future of the cavaliers (remember lebron is 19 and booz is 23), and the cavs would be foolish not to turn their one very tradable asset into draft picks, or mor young talent.

Now, i am a HUGE z fan, i love his game on the offensive end, he is a matchup problem for anyone. but looking at the big picture, we need to trade him this offseason. think of teams in the playoff push right now that are a low post presence away from being a legit title contender. two teams come to mind immediately, and they are the grizzlies and the mavs. both these teams also have another thing in talent, a tremendous amount of young, but experienced talent. here are the deals id consider.

Z to the mavericks for michael finley, straight up. michael finley is constantly talked about in any trade rumor involving the mavericks by ford, he is a great shooter, he can create off the dribble. the other player the mavs are rumored to be trading all the time is antoine walker. NO THANK YOU.

id much rather trade with the grizzlies. stromile swift and shane battier in a sign and trade for Z? that may be a lil lobsided in our favor. the guy on their team i like most and would be the best fit is posey, but he isnt goin anywhere.

there is also a thread on insider commenting on players likely to be traded this offseason. the most likely to be traded on that list is..... WALLY Z in minnesota.
tell me the cavs cant make that a perfect fit! however, z for wally straight up is not a good deal for us, and minnesota's draft pick is about worthless at the end of the first round in this draft.

any thoughts on this gentlemen?

 

Good post polarbear and one which made me reconsider my stance on the Keep/Trade Z dilemma in the form of this post.

To be honest, I felt that the games we won this year were due primarily to our ability to outphysical other teams (read Boozer and Z). Now trading Z necessarily means that we believe Battie/ Diop= Z. We would depend on a healthy Battie and an improved Diop and we would be losing Z who proved to be both of these things that Battie and Diop rarely are.

That said... Z's value is higher than it may ever be again as you rightly said, so if we DO want to trade him then now is probably the time.

I like the idea of getting Fin from the Mavericks. We know exactly what we would be getting out of him. Z for Fin would be an awesome trade. No need for discussion.

I HATE the idea of getting Walker. As a fan who sees a lot of Dallas games (I presently live here) I can say without a doubt that Walker screws up the dynamic of that team by demanding and taking foolish shots and would likely do the same to our team.

Stromile Swift and/or Battier are interesting and guys that Silas would LOVE as they rebound. Can they d it up though? This one might be most likely to happen, though we would have to give Grizz some compensation.

The two trades you propose would work. I'm not sure I understand Cuban's relationship with Finley, but he is getting older. GOod for us, maybe bad for Mavs.

Karma's gonna get pissed at you for this one polarbear.

 

Trading Z away would be a very, very scary thought. It leaves a huge hole in the middle for we have only Diop and Bat to fill in. If we do shaffle him away, we better sign or get another big man in return. Sagana is no where near ready to play 30+ minutes for us and Battie is the same. But another thought has occured to me that, in the East, quality big men are rare for the condenting teams. Pistons have Wallace (undersized for center). Indiana has Pollard (ha). New Jersey has Collins (who?). So do the Cavs necessarily need a quality big man to make a run for the gold? Probably not.

 

If the reason for trading Z is that he is not in our longterm future I cant see why we would trade him for Finley who is older than Z.

I think that we should keep Z if we don't get an amazing offer that includes a good big-man and I don't see that happening. I also think that Z after next season would be willing to sign for quite a bit less than he's making right now just to stay with the Cavaliers. I remember him saying that he was very grateful towards the Cavaliers for sticking with him through the injuries and that he wants to remain here. But maybe I'm just overestimating the goodnes of the big guys heart and underestimating the importance of money.