With the sort of management the sonics have had in the past I am optimistic about the draft and them not f*cking it up- because the pick is virtually picked for them. What I am scared of now is Durant or Oden becoming a Derek Coleman - for those of you who dont remember him he was a college sensation that came to the NBA and while he was a good playeer never quite lived up to what people expected, was often overweight and lacked motivation - in fact his NBA numbers is a true testament to how talented he really was - I always wonder what he would have done had he been more driven. Im worried that Seattle will get one of these guys and with thier Luck have them turn into a solid but not dominant player!What do you all think the chance of that happening is?
Being compared to Derrick Coleman could be a lot worse. That seems kind of random if anything. How can you talk sh*t about derrick coleman who put up 20/10 in a time where big name pfs/cs were aplenty. Derrick Coleman was an excellent player for a while, I think both will become better then he is but derrick coleman was in no way a bust.
Coleman was a good player, but from what he did in college and his skillset he could have done better. It was all about his motivation and of course injuries. I think that Durant and Oden won't get stuck at a 'low peak' like Coleman did, and from what it seems, neither of them are at a risk to have significant injuries down the road. Oden will be dominant, and so will Durant from the looks of things.
Clangus didn't say Derrick Coleman was a bust, he just said that he wasn't as great as what people thought he was going to be, heading into the NBA. Sure he put up 20/10 for a season, and was always a good player, but he was a good player in much the same way that Zach Randolph is a good player, but nothing completely special. He was known to be fat and lazy sometimes, didn't participate on defense from time to time, and only rarely took over like he had the talent to do. Clangus is just stating, he thinks that Oden or Durant might do the same for the Sonics.With that question, I do not believe either of them will. They both showed a great deal of passion for the game in college, and Oden while not always asserting himself on offense, showed he was in on every possession for defense and always tried which was a good reason for him picking up fouls kind of easy. Durant sometimes didn't move without the ball well, but he did show that he had the motivation and passion to take over games when his team needed him to shoulder the scoring load and I think we will see the same for him. I think they both will be fine with their work ethic in the NBA.
If you wanted to think of a bust with talent why not list someone who doesn't put up 20/10? Maybe Darius Miles or Marvin Williams would be better examples. Derrick Coleman was probably a top 50 player from the 90s, and there were alot of great players in the 90s.''Sure he put up 20/10 for a season, and was always a good player, but he was a good player in much the same way that Zach Randolph is a good player''Zach Randolph is also a good player. I think most of the reason he doesn't try on defense is because up until last year when they drafted Roy, the team had no direction whatsoever so he had no reason to play his heart out but still was an excellent scorer/rebounder. I think if the Blazers keep him next season he will also end up an allstar or if he ends up on a team where he can get good touches.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 18 2007, 01:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you wanted to think of a bust with talent why not list someone who doesn't put up 20/10? Maybe Darius Miles or Marvin Williams would be better examples. Derrick Coleman was probably a top 50 player from the 90s, and there were alot of great players in the 90s.''Sure he put up 20/10 for a season, and was always a good player, but he was a good player in much the same way that Zach Randolph is a good player''Zach Randolph is also a good player. I think most of the reason he doesn't try on defense is because up until last year when they drafted Roy, the team had no direction whatsoever so he had no reason to play his heart out but still was an excellent scorer/rebounder. I think if the Blazers keep him next season he will also end up an allstar or if he ends up on a team where he can get good touches.</div>I think your missing my point - I choose coleman because he was one of the most highly anticipated players coming out of college in years - People were expeting him to be Kareem, or Wilt like - he had a awesome skill set he absolutley dominated in college I believe he had like 4 bls a game, He got to the NBA and was not the star people thought he would be -YES HE WAS GOOD and he was an allstar, but fell far short of the mark he could have reached- mostly due to a lack of desire or motivation!I dont think Oden or Durant will be a flop like Kwame Brown I was merely saying that they are so highly touted I was concerned about them becoming good players instead of franchise superstar players.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 18 2007, 12:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you wanted to think of a bust with talent why not list someone who doesn't put up 20/10? Maybe Darius Miles or Marvin Williams would be better examples. Derrick Coleman was probably a top 50 player from the 90s, and there were alot of great players in the 90s.''Sure he put up 20/10 for a season, and was always a good player, but he was a good player in much the same way that Zach Randolph is a good player''Zach Randolph is also a good player. I think most of the reason he doesn't try on defense is because up until last year when they drafted Roy, the team had no direction whatsoever so he had no reason to play his heart out but still was an excellent scorer/rebounder. I think if the Blazers keep him next season he will also end up an allstar or if he ends up on a team where he can get good touches.</div>Once again, Clangus did not call Coleman a bust. He just said commented how Derrick Coleman came in from college and while having a solid career didn't take over like Coleman had the ability to do. Sure he had decent averages throughout his career, but he could have been one of the top players in the league, compared to just a solid starter. Clangus is afraid that Durant and Oden will come in and be solid, but not stars.If Zach Randolph had tried harder for a few of those seasons, they had the players to make the playoffs. They just didn't have any type of consistency from their best big man. He had the ability to be one of the best players in the league, but was not because he didn't always try on defense, sometimes never left his feet for a rebound, and was lots of the times conditioned poorly and out of shape. Both were solid, but not stars like they could be with more try and discipline.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Clangus @ Jun 18 2007, 01:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think your missing my point - I choose coleman because he was one of the most highly anticipated players coming out of college in years - People were expeting him to be Kareem, or Wilt like - he had a awesome skill set he absolutley dominated in college I believe he had like 4 bls a game, He got to the NBA and was not the star people thought he would be -YES HE WAS GOOD and he was an allstar, but fell far short of the mark he could hev reached- mostly due to a lack of desire or motivation!I dont think Oden or Durant will be a flop like Kwame Brown I was merely saying that they are so highly touted I was concerned about them become good players instead of franchise superstar players.</div>Oden could end up beating a derrick coleman like player or a shaq like player. It just depends, but I see Durant being one of the better scorers of this generation. Maybe a bit like Tmac when he was younger.
I understand your worries Clangus, but there's no doubt in my mind that Oden and Durant love the game of basketballSure, Oden might only be a star player in his first 1 and a half seasons, but somewhere into his 3rd year he will start dominating regularly. Durant on the other hand, is ready for the NBA right now, so if you were a Blazers fan, you might have a little more to worry about, but as a Sonics fan, you have nor worries at all. But both players will pan out to the hype, and probably exceed it, they are just that good
I don't think you should be worried about these two college players not really being all what there thought to be once they start playing in the NBA this is because Derek Coleman does not know what work ethic is .. like that word is pretty non existent in the guys mind, that's all there is to it, im sure Durant and Oden will turn into soild stars in this league because they want to and will work towards doing that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 03:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I understand your worries Clangus, but there's no doubt in my mind that Oden and Durant love the game of basketballSure, Oden might only be a star player in his first 1 and a half seasons, but somewhere into his 3rd year he will start dominating regularly. Durant on the other hand, is ready for the NBA right now, so if you were a Blazers fan, you might have a little more to worry about, but as a Sonics fan, you have nor worries at all. But both players will pan out to the hype, and probably exceed it, they are just that good</div> Neither player is going to dominate right away and both are very NBA ready. Why would you be worried more about Oden?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BrewCityBuck @ Jun 18 2007, 02:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Neither player is going to dominate right away and both are very NBA ready. Why would you be worried more about Oden?</div>Oden is only one year out of HS and though he has all the potential in the world he is completely unproven except a decent freshman year in college. I would worry about Oden more then Durant also. Durant has proven he can be the best player in college, Oden has proven little yet. Both have great potential but Durant is a better basketball player today. But also a dominant center is what every team desires especially since they are hard to come by. I dont see the Oden-Durant pick as easy as most people at all. In some ways I even think Portland could benefit from taking Durant over Oden mainly because they are already a strong young frontcourt.
No, man....Busts don't average nearly 30 ppg in their freshman season.Durant just broke the surface of his offensive potential. Once he gets stronger, he'll be able to drive more effectively. He's going to challenge Lebron, Kobe and D-Wade as the best scorer in the league in about 3 years or so. Mark my words.
Kevin Durant is ready to put up 20 per game. Oden on the other hand, will most likely not start dominating until half way through his second season/start of 3rd
Oden will dominant in Year one...Not so much offensively, but defensively. I think he'll put up about 15, 9 and 2...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jun 18 2007, 02:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Oden will dominant in Year one...Not so much offensively, but defensively. I think he'll put up about 15, 9 and 2...</div>I dont think so. Unless Randolph is traded I doubt he even starts most of this season. Maybe if he got good minutes he could put up stats similar to those though.
CB4, even Shaq, arguably one of the best centers of all time, didn't start dominating until his 4th or 5th season and didn't start really dominating till his 7th year
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Pacers fan forever @ Jun 18 2007, 03:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>CB4, even Shaq, arguably one of the best centers of all time, didn't start dominating until his 4th or 5th season and didn't start really dominating till his 7th year</div>That was your worst post ever.Season Ag Tm Lg G MP FG FGA 3P 3PA FT FTA ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS+------------------+----+----+----+----+---+----+----+----+----+----+----+----+---+---+---+---+----+ 1992-93 20 ORL NBA 81 37.9 9.0 16.1 0.0 0.0 5.3 8.9 4.2 9.6 13.9 1.9 0.7 3.5 3.8 4.0 23.4 1993-94 21 ORL NBA 81 39.8 11.8 19.6 0.0 0.0 5.8 10.5 4.7 8.5 13.2 2.4 0.9 2.9 2.7 3.5 29.3 1994-95 22 ORL NBA 79 37.0 11.8 20.2 0.0 0.1 5.8 10.8 4.2 7.3 11.4 2.7 0.9 2.4 2.6 3.3 29.3 1995-96 23 ORL NBA 54 36.0 11.0 19.1 0.0 0.0 4.6 9.5 3.4 7.7 11.0 2.9 0.6 2.1 2.9 3.6 26.6 1996-97 24 LAL NBA 51 38.1 10.8 19.4 0.0 0.1 4.5 9.4 3.8 8.7 12.5 3.1 0.9 2.9 2.9 3.5 26.2 1997-98 25 LAL NBA 60 36.3 11.2 19.1 0.0 0.0 6.0 11.4 3.5 7.9 11.4 2.4 0.7 2.4 2.9 3.2 28.3 1998-99 26 LAL NBA 49 34.8 10.4 18.1 0.0 0.0 5.5 10.2 3.8 6.9 10.7 2.3 0.7 1.7 2.5 3.2 26.3 1999-00 27 LAL NBA 79 40.0 12.1 21.1 0.0 0.0 5.5 10.4 4.3 9.4 13.6 3.8 0.5 3.0 2.8 3.2 29.7 2000-01 28 LAL NBA 74 39.5 11.0 19.2 0.0 0.0 6.7 13.1 3.9 8.8 12.7 3.7 0.6 2.8 2.9 3.5 28.7 2001-02 29 LAL NBA 67 36.2 10.6 18.3 0.0 0.0 5.9 10.7 3.5 7.2 10.7 3.0 0.6 2.0 2.6 3.0 27.2 2002-03 30 LAL NBA 67 37.8 10.4 18.1 0.0 0.0 6.7 10.8 3.9 7.2 11.1 3.1 0.6 2.4 2.9 3.4 27.5 2003-04 31 LAL NBA 67 36.8 8.3 14.1 0.0 0.0 4.9 10.1 3.7 7.8 11.5 2.9 0.5 2.5 2.9 3.4 21.5 2004-05 32 MIA NBA 73 34.1 9.0 15.0 0.0 0.0 4.8 10.5 3.5 6.9 10.4 2.7 0.5 2.3 2.8 3.6 22.9 2005-06 33 MIA NBA 59 30.6 8.1 13.6 0.0 0.0 3.7 8.0 2.9 6.3 9.2 1.9 0.4 1.8 2.8 3.9 20.0 2006-07 34 MIA NBA 40 28.4 7.1 12.0 0.0 0.0 3.1 7.4 2.4 5.0 7.4 2.0 0.2 1.4 2.4 3.5 17.3Shaq was a beast the day he entered an NBA court.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ Jun 18 2007, 03:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I dont think so. Unless Randolph is traded I doubt he even starts most of this season. Maybe if he got good minutes he could put up stats similar to those though.</div>I think Randolph WILL go...LaMarcus played VERY well at times during last year, so he might be emerging. Greg Oden is an instant defensive stud, and he will be good offensively, once he gets some experience. May as well ship Randolph off in order to get wing help...His trade value will be higher this offseason, because he showed that he can be a 24 ppg scorer...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CB4AllStar @ Jun 18 2007, 03:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think Randolph WILL go...LaMarcus played VERY well at times during last year, so he might be emerging. Greg Oden is an instant defensive stud, and he will be good offensively, once he gets some experience. May as well ship Randolph off in order to get wing help...His trade value will be higher this offseason, because he showed that he can be a 24 ppg scorer...</div>Oden played above average defensively in college but he is still raw. I wouldnt expect him to be a dominant defensive player from the start. He may get some solid blocks but I think he will have a similar rookie season to Emeka. I dont think they will move Randolph honestly. It's a possibility though.
