DeAndre Baker

[theProdigy223]

This is a huge black eye on Gettleman and the Giants' drafting process. Baker had character concerns coming out of college. Every scouting report mentioned this. His team interviews were a disaster. There was no denying his talent and he deserved that Thorpe Award he won, but his off-field issues and work ethic were well documented enough to show up everywhere. Talent wise he was probably a top 15 pick. I was ok with the pick at the time because I trusted we did our diligence on him, and there was no denying he was a steal talent-wise at 30.

I went back and looked at his post-draft interview transcript. After reading through DJ's and Dexter Lawrence's great interviews, he certainly sounds like a moron. But more importantly: He says he was surprised that the Giants took him because we only met with him once, at the combine.

My jaw hit the floor reading that. Not only did we take a guy in the first round who slipped because of character concerns, we did it while doing pretty much no in-person diligence on him ourselves, and we even TRADED UP to get him.

Just f'n awful.

 

[RangersFan]

Couldn't agree more. Another wonderful job by Gettleman. A lot of teams removed Baker from their boards completely, but not our GM. He actually traded up for him as you wrote. And as if the character issues weren't bad enough, he also has a terrible work ethic by many many accounts as you mentioned. Apparently his work ethic was a joke last season.

And one meeting once again touches on the point with Gettleman, he is not the right guy to do this job. He saw oh this guy is still here, has maybe top 15 talent, okay we have to take him regardless of little background or in person hands on due diligence. He is a mess IMO. I hope I am wrong on this, but I think I am right based on what I have seen so far. Gettleman is not the guy to be a GM in 2020. 25 years ago maybe, but not in the world we live in today.

 

[RangersFan]

BTW - I feel compelled to add this. Baker is a joke and 100% this is on him. He gets no pass for this of course. It is disgraceful if he did what is being reported he did. What a thug. Throw him in jail for a long time if this is true.

No one could predict exactly this happening, but in a risk/reward type of situation it appears as if Gettleman ignored the risks and worse yet potentially didn't do all his homework and due diligence. That is a huge black eye on him as you wrote above.

 

[kreidertime]

This is not a black eye on Gettleman at all. Tired of the morons out there pointing out just the negatives. Trading that asshole Beckham for the haul he got was brilliant by Gettleman yet nobody brings it up. Drafting Jones 6th was brilliant by Gettleman yet people won't admit it. Teams with very hard positions to find take risks all the time. Sometimes you win and others you don't. The Giants already had two first rounders in their pocket. It was worth the risk at the time to risk it on Baker. If Beal can finally avoid the fluke injuries and become solid than the Baker pick isn't that much of a loss. Plus, there is still a good FA corner out there.

I don't give two craps about the third first round pick in the 2018 draft going to jail. F him. The only thing that matters is that Gettleman found the next franchise QB and he finally has started to take big steps in fixing the OL and free safety position which have been disasters. If the OL is much improved, Barkely rushes for 1800 yards, Jones goes for 30 TD 12 Int's, the secondary overall is much better and our new LT is a stud, nobody will give a fuck about convict Baker.

 

[kreidertime]

The sad thing is that people are totally letting Jerry Reese off the hook because they just don't like Gettleman. Reese left this team in shambles. Every unit of this team freakin sucked when Gettleman took over. People think that Gettleman was going to fix it in 2 or 3 years? Please. You can easily make the case that Darius Slayton should be been a first round pick based on what he did and Gettleman took him in the first round. Connolly was playing like a 2nd round pick before he went down and he took him in the 5th round. This moronic fascination of beating every negative thing Gettleman has and ignoring the good stuff got old over a year ago.

 

[theProdigy223]

Dump your post has nothing at all to do with the topic. Classic distraction and diversion. My post was about trading up to draft a guy in the first round with documented character concerns without doing proper diligence on him, to the point the player himself was surprised to hear his name called by us.

Gettleman’s other draft pick don’t make that not matter. Reese’s failures don’t make that hot matter. In fact it makes it worse because Gettleman should have seen from the Flowers and Apple picks that character is a huge part of a player’s development. Nobody is letting Reese off the hook by calling out this draft pick.

He fucked up, plain and simple.

 

[kreidertime]

His character concerns were not that big of a deal. People all try to come out like all people do in this time and act like they knew it was going to happen all the time. If you read my post I stated that with really hard to find positions like starting CB, teams roll the dice all the time. It's nothing new. 1st round picks don't work out all the time. So it happened to the Giants this time. Who gives a shit. He made it up with Slayton and Connelly in the 5th round. People need to get the fuck over it. Like I also said in my post. They have a hard on with Gettleman and wait for something that doesn't work out but ignore all the things he does that do work out. Haskins was taken 11th and he sucked IMO. You don't hear Skins fans bitching 24 hours a day about their GM. Gary was taken 12th by the Packers and did nothing. You don't hear Packers fans whining like bitches like Giants fans do with every fucking move Gettleman makes. Anybody who tells you they knew something like this would happen with Baker is full of shit. Nobody said dick after the Giants drafted Baker. All they did was bitch and complain about Gettleman drafting Jones and they looked stupid for it.

 

[kreidertime]

Essentially, the Giants fan base has turned into a bunch of crybaby, pussies like the Jets fan base. Difference is the Jets fan base has a reason to be like that. They haven't won shit in over 50 years. Giants fans have no excuse.

 

[Greyvtrayn]

Some people just don't get it.

 

[kreidertime]

This is the Giants. They will right the ship and make a run soon enough. This team had nothing when Gettleman got here. Yeah, the Baker thing sucks. However, he got Bradberry who is a really good CB. Beal is 23, Love is 22. Both have pretty good upside. The biggest suck factor in our secondary hasn't been the CB's. It's been the FS position which has cost us a ton of games the past 3-4 years. If McKinney is as good as advertised, this will be a huge boost to the secondary. Our slot corners have also sucked. After not liking the Holmes pick I started to research the kid and he has explosive slot cover ability. He's just not going to be a guy that will cover bigger receivers on the outside.

The schedule is brutal, 2nd hardest according to Vegas but this will help the team a ton going forward. They need to learn how to play against the top teams. It will be fun watching Barkley actually running behind a tackle that can run block for the first time in his career.

 

[kreidertime]

I can't wait to see Baker's video evidence. This should be good. LOL

 

[theProdigy223]

First off, I hope for Baker's sake the armed robbery allegations turn out to be untrue, and it does not derail his life and career. But he clearly put himself in a very precarious position.

That said, nobody here is being a "crybaby pussy". The point remains that Gettleman traded up to draft a guy who was dripping in red flags based on only one meeting with him. Plenty of reports have come out now about the internal battle within the building about whether to draft him. Even if the allegations turn out to be untrue, the reports of his work ethic, attention to detail and professionalism last year are extremely troubling. And I was someone who was very encouraged by his second half on the field last year.

Pointing to the number of holes on the roster, or the other moves he has made, does not cancel out what a mistake this looks like right now. If Gettleman sat tight and drafted him in the early second it would be much more understandable. Instead we burned a 4th and 5th for the opportunity to draft him. Given Gettleman's pretty good track record at later round picks (like you mentioned, Slayton, plus Connelly in the 5th last year and Love in the 4th), I would MUCH rather he had another 2 swings in those rounds. Plus some of the other corners who went behind him had encouraging rookie years. Byron Murphy started all 16 games last year for the Cards. Trayvon Mullen started 10. Rock YaSin is a player as well.

It was a bad move, plain and simple. Pointing that out doesnt make me a crybaby pussy, it makes me an objective fan with a sense of reality who doesnt blindly defend every single move Gettleman makes like some cult member just because I like him - which, for the record, I do.

 

[kreidertime]

This is the Giants. People need to freakin relax. We actually might have a tackle that can pass protect and block. The Giants have had plenty of down times before. Gettleman was left with nothing. It took him just two years to replace a franchise QB with another one. Good luck finding other GM's who can do that.

 

[Greyvtrayn]

The Cowboys did it with Romo to Prescott, the Ravens did it with Flacco to Jackson, the Chiefs did it with Smith to Mahomes.

 

[kreidertime]

Prescott is not a franchise QB. He sucks. Romo couldn't win playoff games. That's not a franchise QB. Give Prescott an average OL and he would have lost his job. Smith is not a franchise QB. He was a game manager. Flacco was pretty good for a few years. He won a SB. I'm not calling Jackson a franchise QB. All these running QB's get hurt and when they do and can't run any longer, they suck. Let me see Jackson be a good QB when his legs get broke and they will. It's only a matter of time.

 

[Greyvtrayn]

Oh OK, I didn't realize you had varying qualifications for what a franchise QB is. Just keep in mind, your boyfriend Jones hasn't done shit in the NFL to date. So if you don't think Prescott or Jackson is a franchise QB then D Jones sure as shit isn't one either yet. But go ahead and keep thinking he was a steal with the 6th (!) pick in the draft...

 

[Rangers94]

Prescott is not a franchise QB. He sucks. Romo couldn't win playoff games. That's not a franchise QB. Give Prescott an average OL and he would have lost his job. Smith is not a franchise QB. He was a game manager. Flacco was pretty good for a few years. He won a SB. I'm not calling Jackson a franchise QB. All these running QB's get hurt and when they do and can't run any longer, they suck. Let me see Jackson be a good QB when his legs get broke and they will. It's only a matter of time.

Just playing devils advocate here, but Daniel Jones is certainly not a franchise QB after one season in which he had 6 fumbles, 12 ints and a QBR that ranked 24th in the league. You’re making an assumption that Jones is going to be a franchise QB which he very well may be, but he could also be the next Josh Allen. Can’t judge a guy after one season, good or bad. Jackson is much more of a franchise QB than Jones is at this point. People said the same thing about Vick getting hit and not being able to stay healthy and he had a pretty damn good career. Jackson could very well be the same. If he stays healthy he is 100% a franchise QB.

 

[Ranger71]

Prescott is good but he's been enhanced alot with that OL. There's a reason he was drafted in the 3rd round or wherever, as his raw talent is just average for the most part. Dallas will be paying too much for him in another 3y. Jackson seems to be improving his throwing and i think he will start running less and less as they add more talent at WR.

 

[kreidertime]

Jones has to prove it over the course of time but if you went and looked up how many QB's threw twice as many TD's to INT's as a true rookie in NFL history, you will find very few. I see Jones as a future superstar. Kid had nothing to work with in college and his OL sucked last year not to mention most of his offensive weapons didn't play or played hurt where they were diminished. Hopefully Thomas will be as good as advertised by PFF and our OL won't suck for the first time in years. Jackson is like all running QB's. His runs setup his passes. Once his legs get broke, he'll suck. Just like Vick and RG3.

 

[panzerporter]

No way you can't lay blame with DG, he gambled and lost but if Baker was missing meetings and had a shit attiude the Giants should have suspended him. It's amazing how street cred is more important than a football contract for some guys. Baker needs to look up the lawyer who got Navarro Bowman off with a wrist slap after he shot up a party.

 

[kreidertime]

Nothing will happen to Baker. The more that comes out, the more you can see Baker did nothing wrong and was framed. The guys he was playing cards with have long rap sheets of terrible crimes from all reports. He might get a few games from the NFL for playing an a illegal card game and the Giants might have somebody assigned to him to work on his social circle. This is a case of not convicting somebody until all the evidence is out.

 

[theProdigy223]

Nothing will happen to Baker. The more that comes out, the more you can see Baker did nothing wrong and was framed. The guys he was playing cards with have long rap sheets of terrible crimes from all reports. He might get a few games from the NFL for playing an a illegal card game and the Giants might have somebody assigned to him to work on his social circle. This is a case of not convicting somebody until all the evidence is out.

Nobody convicted him of anything. Is it just a coincidence that the guy with what sounds like the worst work ethic and professionalism on the team is also running in these types of circles? As I said in a previous post Im glad for his sake it sounds like it didnt go down as the original affidavit claimed. But that doesnt excuse burning extra draft capital to draft a guy like this.

Gettleman took a gamble without doing his diligence, plain and simple. So far, it has backfired.

 

[kreidertime]

No. It hasn't backfired at all. His rookie year was up and down. Not uncommon for a rookie. Especially a CB. His work ethic from all reports got better as the year went on as teammates starting calling him out. Saying it backfired after 1 year in the NFL is moronic. We have no idea what he will do going forward and how this thing plays out. Right now it looks like not much will happen to him via the law or NFL.

 

[theProdigy223]

His work ethic from all reports got better as the year went on as teammates starting calling him out.

I havent seen that anywhere, in fact I've seen the opposite reported. Where have you seen this reported?

Saying it backfired after 1 year in the NFL is moronic. We have no idea what he will do going forward and how this thing plays out.

Which is why I said SO FAR it has backfired. Right now I'd rather have one of the other corners who have established themselves as NFL players without the offield drama, PLUS another Slayton and Ryan Connelly in the 2 picks DG gave up, than DeAndre Baker.

 

[Greyvtrayn]

Dump is right here. Just like you can't say D Jones is a franchise QB you can't say it has backfired w/ Baker yet. 1 year (or one accusation of armed robbery) does not a career make. Hopeful that it works out for the dude.

 

[theProdigy223]

Of course he can turn it around. Which is why I said SO FAR it has backfired. Are we supposed to withhold opinions on a player until he reaches a certain number of games played?

We traded up for him in the first round, buring 2 extra mid round picks in the process, and the result was that (1) he had a bad season while corners who went behind him looked way better, (2) he was a distraction in locker room, and (3) he was involved in a high stakes card game with drug dealers that ended in armed robbery accusations.

If you dont think that warrants criticism of his drafting at this point, then we'll have to disagree on that.

 

[kreidertime]

The book has only just been started to be written on Baker if this case is dropped. Nobody can predict the pick was bad until he isn't a Giant or he stinks long term as a Giant. If he turns out to be a really good player, than people will say it was a great move to move up and draft him.

 

[panzerporter]

The optimistic fan in me hopes you're right about the triviality of Baker's charges and that this will serve as a wakeup call because no doubt the guy can play.

 

[kreidertime]

Don't know when it happened. Probably under that liberal asswipe Obama. In this country you were presumed guilty and had to prove yourself innocent. Looks like the only thing Baker was guilty of was hanging out with really bad guys. Either way, if the chargers are dropped which is what they are saying will happen, I also hope as you that this will be a wakeup call. Not only with who he hangs out with but how he conducts himself as a player. Should be fascinating to see how this plays out.