Re: Debrate Thread Obama did well on the first question. John McCain is getting too close to the crowd right now.
Re: Debrate Thread After Obama said "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran and annihilate North Korea", McCain completely fell off his game. He had no idea how to respond to that, and lost his temperment. I think McCain is in favor of Obama's policy, but he keeps being disaggreable.
Re: Debrate Thread McCain needed to change the game in this debate, and he didn't do it. I've felt this election was over for two weeks, and tonight did nothing to change my mind. I'm now of the mind that we economic conservatives need to burn this mofo down. Forget McCain. Let Obama, Pelosi and Reid run this economy into the ground over the next 2-4 years. Let the people who called themselves economic conservatives yet who spent like Ted Kennedy get their asses voted out of office. They'll be replaced by REAL small government types after our effective tax rates are over 50% and we're running record deficits.
Re: Debrate Thread It's a little late for that ... though I do agree that we need a heavy dose of fiscal responsibility in this country and entitlements are going to have to be given a serious look.
Re: Debrate Thread Its a matter of how many bailouts, handouts and move to a more socialist union we're going to have. Uggh, invisible hand I suppose...this is going to be disgusting.
Re: Debrate Thread It's too late for Obama to run the economy into the ground, the Republicans already did it. I guess he can take it underground. Drill baby, drill!
Re: Debrate Thread Its not the economy he is going to run into the ground. Its america itself. From socialized "robin hood" programs on down.
Re: Debrate Thread I'm now of the mind that we liberals need to burn this mofo down. Forget Gore and Kerry. Let Bush, Cheney, Hastert and Lott run this economy into the ground over the next 6-8 years. Oh wait, mission accomplished. barfo
Re: Debrate Thread As Medicare and Social Security have proven, once you initiate a popular liberal program, it's impossible to kill. It'll go on for decades and decades, and although people might get worried about such programs running out of money (as is happening with those two entitlements), all the anxiety you hear demonstrates just how popular those programs are. Conservative programs generally involve tax cuts and deregulation, and while they make people happy, there really isn't a huge constituency that gets excited about making sure somebody pulling in $150k/year always pays low taxes. And it takes just a few stories about tainted food to make some regulations seem reasonable. That's why Bush's tax cuts will be long forgotten as we go back to Clinton-era taxation, and it's why we're in for some more heavy-handed regulation. We're coming up on a massive, liberal overhaul of health care. And you may not like it, but similar overhauls in other Western democracies have been pretty popular and impossible to kill. I have no doubt that within the next two to four years the Dems will do stuff that pisses everybody off, and Republicans will regain some control. Divided government just seems to work better. But by the time that happens, there are going to be some new liberal entitlements, and there will be no going back from them.
Re: Debrate Thread That's an interesting hypothesis, but you're ignoring one simple fact: we can't pay for it. There have been so many silly entitlements that there's no more room in the budget for social programs. This is still a center-right nation. The Republicans are being excoriated because they were elected to make government smaller and they did the opposite. So the American people are going to punish them by voting them out of office. I say allow all the excesses the Left wants--let them reveal themselves and their true motives. It's only when they take off the mask that people will see who they really are. And as for the promise of socialized medicine, it's clear you've never lived under such a system. I can assure you the healthcare in Spain, Sweden and Denmark doesn't hold a candle to that in the States.
Re: Debrate Thread Those people aren't conservatives. They're socialists with a strong belief in religion.
Re: Debrate Thread I fixed that for you. A pretty major caveat, given that the American system is getting more unaffordable to more people every day. The health care systems in those countries are popular, just like Medicare is very popular here. I've read countless posts like yours, but the funny thing is that I've never seen any of them ever site opinion polls that show how unpopular those systems are to the citizens of those countries. You may be right about the lack of funding. But the Democrats are going to gamble that once you put the system in place, it'll be so wildly popular that we'll find the money for it (likely through tax increases). You may contend that they are wrong. You may think our center-right country will look on in horror, reject the system, throw all those liberals out in four years, and get us back to the way we were. (Just like Dems plan on rolling back the Bush tax cuts.) But I can't help but point to Medicare and Social Security. They've survived liberal and conservative administrations. Through thick and thin, they just keep going and going. You can't kill entitlements because they are so popular, which is why conservatives view them as such a danger. Those two programs are huge refutations that Americans don't want to work on anything collectively through government action. And I think in the next few years we're going to be in for some more examples. We'll see how long this place remains a "center-right" country.
Re: Debrate Thread Note: I typed a reply, but tried to open another tab and accidentally opened this one, which erased my response. This is my second go-round, so it will be shorter. Healthcare isn't becoming less affordable, people demand to live at an unrealistic level. People believe it's their right to own their own house, to have a car or even more than one car, to have more than one bathroom, to have a bedroom for each of their kids, to have a computer, to have a television, etc., etc. At the point you can't afford any of the above, you're on public assistance and your healthcare is provided for you. People need to learn to live within their means. You're the first person I've ever seen that called Medicare "popular". Medicare is widely regarded as a mess. So, you're proposing to take that mess and make it mandatory for the American people? No thanks. Have you ever been hospitalized or treated in one of these countries? If you have, you wouldn't complain so much about US healthcare. And if you want to know what the opinion of the people abroad are, look to the best off among them. All over these countries, there are companies that offer health insurance--that sends you to the States for care when you're ill. Find anyone that can afford it, and chances are they have this kind of supplemental insurance at some level. For everyone else, they're stuck with their miserable care. And if you find current premiums expensive, you haven't seen anything yet when it comes to your taxes. Once you take away competition and add in the dead weight loss of government handling your healthcare, socialized medicine will be more expensive than before, and less effective. If you look at any poll regarding taxes, people overwhelmingly say they pay too much. If you look at any poll regarding the role of government, people overwhelmingly say they play too much of a role in our lives. The problem is that we don't have a major party that is actively committed to shrinking government, because it's easier to give something than to take it away. In fact, it will take people willing to lose their seats to make real reform. We are a center-right country. Poll after poll after poll shows it to be true. People want to live their lives unfettered by interference. Those on the right want less government in their business and those on the left want less government in their bedroom. However, people right now look at the Republicans and see how corrupt they've become. The Democrats could field a tapeworm and it would win the Presidency. It's not about a move to the left, it's about "change".
Re: Debrate Thread I'm not really interested in (yet another) debate about the merits of health care reform and Obama's plan. We're all probably pretty tired of re-hashing the same points. What I am interested in is whether you agree with the following basic points I'm making: 1. The Democrats are likely going to win, and win big. 2. They will be able to force through a new health care program with far more government involvement. 3. They may not be able to afford it long-term, but they will bank on the fact that it'll be tough to kill once it gets started, and they think Americans will be willing to pay for it with higher taxes long-term. I think those three points are pretty much a foregone conclusion. But I could be wrong. If I am, I'd like to know why. If you agree with those points, do you think it's likely that it costs them hugely in either 2 or 4 years?
