Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! Yes. That's right. I said it. Derek Sanderson Jeter SUCKS!! Go ahead and blast me. You?ll see who is wrong. The numbers never lie. They say Jeter sucks. He is one of the worst players ever. He is so overrated it's not even funny. People rave on him because he does a few highlight reel plays.Now that I have your attention, Jeter sucks at defense. He is the most overrated defender there is. The numbers don?t lie. You say well then, Mr. Number?s guy, he has a good fielding percentage. I say, fielding percentage is to defense what batting average is to offense: The most useless stat there is. Range factor is to defense what on-base percentage is to offense: The more important stat that is underrated. You ask what range factor is. I tell you.Bill James, the inventor of Sabermetric principles, came up with this. It is the number of putouts plus assists divided by the number of innings played at a defensive position. It is more effective, because it measures how many balls you can get to. Think about it. Jeter doesn?t have good range. Not having good range, means you don?t get to as many balls. Not getting to balls means not making plays. Not making plays means your fielding percentage won?t go down.Who gives if Jeter has won 3 Gold Gloves? Just because he makes the highlight reel a few times does not mean he is a great defender. He is in fact one of the WORST defenders there is. Anyone who knows how the Gold Glove voting works knows that offense is factored into the award, and that the voters are morons who have no regards for Sabermetrics. There is an award for great offense called the Silver Slugger. Do they factor defense into that award?Looking at the career fielding percentage and range factor of current and recently retired shortstops and players who have played at 1,000 innings at SS, you will see how bad of a defender Jeter really is:Note: Not every team?s starting SS will be here if they haven?t played at least 1,000 innings at SSLess range than Jeter marked with *Derek Jeter: .975, 4.20Edgar Renteria: .969, 4.39Chris Woodward: .967, 4.69Jose Reyes: .973, 4.23Hanley Ramirez: .962, 4.40Damion Easley: .973, 4.47Jimmy Rollins: .982, 4.25Abraham Nunez: .965, 4.78Cristian Guzman: .972, 4.38*Felipe Lopez: .959, 4.12Adam Everett: .977, 4.66Mark Loretta: .982, 4.49*J.J. Hardy: .978, 4.03Craig Counsell: .980, 4.49Bill Hall (Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiily, Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiily!! YOU SUCK!!): .965, 4.35David Eckstein: .981, 4.47Cesar Izturis: .978, 4.39*Ronny Cedeno: .960, 4.04Mark DeRosa: .974, 4.87Jack Wilson: .976, 4.88Alex Gonzalez (The one who fucked up the ground ball): .975, 4.57Alex Gonzalez (The other one): .970, 4.50Juan Castro: .976, 4.47Rafael Furcal: .965, 4.88Ramon Martinez: .968, 4.40Nomar Garciaparra: .968, 4.48Omar Vizquel: .984, 4.65Rich Aurilia: .974, 4.51*Khalil Greene: .972, 4.16Geoff Blum: .965, 4.40Clint Barmes: .966, 4.97Royce Clayton: .974, 4.66John McDonald: .963, 4.77Miguel Tejada: .970, 4.73Chris Gomez: .972, 4.44Julio Lugo: .965, 4.70Alex Cora: .971, 4.50A-Rod: .977, 4.63Jhonny Peralta: .972, 4.69The G-Man (Mark Grudzielanek): .961, 4.43Carlos Guillen: .968, 4.36Dusty Baker?s son, Neifi Perez: .978, 4.99Omar Infante: .963, 5.25Jose Valentin: .958, 4.83Jason Bartlett: .970, 4.61Juan Uribe: .975, 4.93Alex Cintron: .974, 4.30Orlando Cabrera: .978, 4.57Bobby Crosby: .973, 4.67Marco Scutaro: .970, 4.41Yuniesky Betancourt: .970, 4.51Michael Young: .976, 4.51So of all the current/recently retired players with 1,000 innings or more at SS, only 4 of them get to less balls than Jeter. A good deal of these SS also have better fielding percentage than Jeter. The numbers don?t lie. Jeter SUCKS on defense.Now, being someone who likes Sabermetrics, I have to say that Jeter has a better stick than most of these players. A-Rod and Tejada are the only players who I would take over Jeter at SS. But this is not about offense. This is strictly defense. Jeter sucks at defense, but those few spectacular plays he makes that get him on SportsCenter, and his bat are what win him Gold Gloves.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! He's having a rough one this year, that's for sure. But I'll take his cognition over anyone elses in the clutch.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! This is strictly defensively speaking. Jeter is one of the worst defensive SS ever.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ May 8 2007, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This is strictly defensively speaking. Jeter is one of the worst defensive SS ever.</div>Duh.I made this arguement in another thread already. Pretty common knowledge to whoever wants to look it up.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! So he's like Reggie Miller. Clutch but his defense is at it's best when it counts.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! Phffffffffffffft. He only makes it look dramatic b/c he has bad range, he needs to compensate for it, whereas that same hit ball, someone like Vizquel makes it routine.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ May 9 2007, 12:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Phffffffffffffft. He only makes it look dramatic b/c he has bad range, he needs to compensate for it, whereas that same hit ball, someone like Vizquel makes it routine.</div>Uh hu.... lol.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silversword55 @ May 9 2007, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DH23, you're crazy.</div>And? He still knows that Jeter sucks. We all know he does, no denying it.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ May 9 2007, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silversword55 @ May 9 2007, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DH23, you're crazy.</div>And? He still knows that Jeter sucks. We all know he does, no denying it.</div>The numbers don't lie. Jeter sucks at defense. I needed an inflammatory title to get your attention.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DevinHester23 @ May 9 2007, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ May 9 2007, 03:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silversword55 @ May 9 2007, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DH23, you're crazy.</div>And? He still knows that Jeter sucks. We all know he does, no denying it.</div>The numbers don't lie. Jeter sucks at defense. I needed an inflammatory title to get your attention.</div>Numbers don't lie. Since 2003, Jeter has been in the top 10 in the MLB every year for Fielding %. His Range Factor might be low, but he can field.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! No shit his FP is high, Vilma. It's b/c he doesn't get to balls that other SS would get to. Think about it: You don't get to a ball, you don't have a play to make. You don't have a play to make, you don't have a chance to make an error. You don't make an error, you don't fuck up your FP
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! is Jeter overrated at defense? yea maybe. is he the worst SS ever? um no. he obviously started off terrribly, but frankly, the overrated-ness of his defense has become overblown. Is he Vizquel? no, not close. But he does his job, and more than makes up for it with his speed, intelligence, hitting and overall leadership.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ May 9 2007, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>is Jeter overrated at defense? yea maybe. is he the worst SS ever? um no. he obviously started off terrribly, but frankly, the overrated-ness of his defense has become overblown. Is he Vizquel? no, not close. But he does his job, and more than makes up for it with his speed, intelligence, hitting and overall leadership.</div>When Jeter has won 3 straight Gold Gloves for average-at-best defense (And Probably much closer to Below Average), it is not close to overblown enough.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 9 2007, 05:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ May 9 2007, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>is Jeter overrated at defense? yea maybe. is he the worst SS ever? um no. he obviously started off terrribly, but frankly, the overrated-ness of his defense has become overblown. Is he Vizquel? no, not close. But he does his job, and more than makes up for it with his speed, intelligence, hitting and overall leadership.</div>When Jeter has won 3 straight Gold Gloves for average-at-best defense (And Probably much closer to Below Average), it is not close to overblown enough.</div>His Fielding percentage was top 3 or 4 in the AL the years he won it I'm pretty sure. And he makes tons of highlight plays. So top 5 stat wise + lots of highlights = votes.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 9 2007, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ May 9 2007, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>is Jeter overrated at defense? yea maybe. is he the worst SS ever? um no. he obviously started off terrribly, but frankly, the overrated-ness of his defense has become overblown. Is he Vizquel? no, not close. But he does his job, and more than makes up for it with his speed, intelligence, hitting and overall leadership.</div>When Jeter has won 3 straight Gold Gloves for average-at-best defense (And Probably much closer to Below Average), it is not close to overblown enough.</div>He deserved one of those GG, maybe 2. He didnt deserve it last year. But we all know reputation plays such a big part. Plus, he does make a lot of the fancy looking plays which sways voters.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ May 9 2007, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silversword55 @ May 9 2007, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DH23, you're crazy.</div>And? He still knows that Jeter sucks. We all know he does, no denying it.</div>Whatever Captain Showoff
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ May 9 2007, 10:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AdropOFvenom @ May 9 2007, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nebkreb @ May 9 2007, 04:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>is Jeter overrated at defense? yea maybe. is he the worst SS ever? um no. he obviously started off terrribly, but frankly, the overrated-ness of his defense has become overblown. Is he Vizquel? no, not close. But he does his job, and more than makes up for it with his speed, intelligence, hitting and overall leadership.</div>When Jeter has won 3 straight Gold Gloves for average-at-best defense (And Probably much closer to Below Average), it is not close to overblown enough.</div>He deserved one of those GG, maybe 2. He didnt deserve it last year. But we all know reputation plays such a big part. Plus, he does make a lot of the fancy looking plays which sways voters.</div>The voters are stupid. Think about the logic: He has bad range --> He doesn't get to balls --> He doesn't have a play to make --> Not having a play to make means no chance to make an error --> Not having a chance to make an error means your FP is high. B/c Jeter plays bad defense, he has to make the play look fancy whereas a SS like Uribe or Izturis makes it routine. It's the same deal with Edmonds. He has to dive for a lot of balls b/c he breaks bad and plays shallow, whereas someone like Corey Patterson makes that play routine.
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silversword55 @ May 10 2007, 03:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Capt. Comeback @ May 9 2007, 04:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silversword55 @ May 9 2007, 03:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>DH23, you're crazy.</div>And? He still knows that Jeter sucks. We all know he does, no denying it.</div>Whatever Captain Showoff</div>Showoff? What am I flaunting here?
Re: Derek Jeter SUCKS!! [quote name='Capt. Comeback' post='92135' date='May 10 2007, 04:38 PM'][quote name='Silversword55' post='92127' date='May 10 2007, 03:25 PM'][quote name='Capt. Comeback' post='92047' date='May 9 2007, 04:19 PM'][quote name='Silversword55' post='92038' date='May 9 2007, 03:11 PM']DH23, you're crazy.[/quote]And? He still knows that Jeter sucks. We all know he does, no denying it.[/quote]Whatever Captain Showoff[/quote]Showoff? What am I flaunting here?[/quote]Lol
