DESPERATELY need a trade......

...not that there is anyone I realistically want and expect to get-but that it' getting old looking at the realgm deal......Knicks trade Penny and Mike Sweetney for Jermain O'Neal and picks! Indy dumps salary. NY gets a big to backup J James....yadayada
Every OTHER team has one solid rumor,some journeyman stopping in for a workout,an undrafted signing on. We got some oversize shotstop from Urgaway or Tierra Del Fuego or whatever. Nobody even knows anything about him. Nobody ever saw him. What's to debate?

We got a bunch of goodygoody types- no DUI busts,no wifebeaters,no bar brawls. Are all our guys hanging out in the gym all day? Doesn't someone want to get traded,choke a coach or prance about in a wedding dress?

We gotta have something happen soon or I'll be watching CNN late and getting depressed. I'd settle for a Calbert Cheaney swap even if we only got a scrub.

 

I know what you mean. I'm just as bored this offseason as the next Warrior fan. I go to almost every Warriors forum out there and it's almost dead. Even the ones that have some activity on it, it's just stuff that's been milked to death, not worth really commenting on and people make a whole new thread on things just to let people know the forum is still alive or something. I'm humoring you BTW. Let's talk about Diogu, though. I know you're in love with Diogu's skills and I was one of the last to jump on the bandwagon before draft day because of the high failure rate of college-to-NBA 6'8" power forwards. But, I must say I'm liking Diogu because we don't have a player like him on our roster.

With a healthy roster and some inside toughness and slightly improved defense, hopefully we'll make the playoffs. But we're still one player away from doing mediocre to horrible unless we have a better team passing game and off the ball movement. It's something we've still failed to install in the new-look Warriors before Bdiddy arrived. We just can't find a way to create consistent offense unless we have a spectacular individual who can break down defenders either off the dribble or in the post and hit the open jump shooter out of the double team. I was hoping Diogu could be that guy, but we'll see. I'm expecting some big things out of Taft and Ellis as well. Great second round picks. Great potential and they could probably contribute sooner than most think. Ellis could be "Tony Parker in his rookie year" type of ready. Who knows?

Anyway, I'm rambling again. Back to Diogu. I really like Diogu now despite critics who say he's too small, too slow, too quiet etc. At least the guy ain't a weakling or ain't soft or unaggressive.

All I ask is for one physical mismatch against an opponent to go with their skill set, whether it be overwhelming quickness or strength and I think he can do it with his strength and coordination (much like the unathletic Zach Randolph who is the go-to guy in Portland, but with more hustle and comittment to defense).

Diogu's got the best footwork we've seen in a while for a player wearing a Warriors uniform and he can create separation in the paint and can finish strong. His only question mark is on defense and whether or not he'll get killed lagging behind in transition. He gets blocked quite a bit I noticed in summer league when he kept trying to force the action against a guy who was all over him on defense (It's only summer league, though).

I do think Diogu will be more impacting on offense in terms of getting to the line and at least better or at least the same as Murph on transition D/man-to-man D in the post or on the perimeter. Additionally, he'll be way better in terms of challenging an opponent's shot and helping out on weakside D than Tmurph. Also I think he'll be a better passer (I was quite impressed by him handling the rock a little and initiating the break by immediately recognizing the ballhandler in play). Just think if the floor spacing is dynamite as it was the second half of last year, Diogu could be the type to benefit as he can break down defenders off the dribble from the triple threat position, work down low on isolations in the paint, or he could set up cutters from the high post.

I like Mullin's picks because it's about time we got physically tougher inside and stronger up front and he chose a good solid pick that has a chance to make people better and a good risky pick that could be our version of Amare Stoudamire, and a really great risky pick last year in Andris Biedrins. We still don't know if Biedrins will be an undersized center or an under-sized center masquerading as a power forward (a la Jermaine O'neil). I was suprised by Biedrins ability to actually dribble the ball low and carry it up some. But that's a topic for another day.

 

I saw talent in Diogu that made me confident he could start. He also is not a guy with red flags regarding work ethic,effort in the game,or skills. No sprinter but Ike has a real good 2 step quickness inside. His playing weight can be anywhere from 245 to about 260,and at the light end of that range he's gonna be quicker-faster. At the heavier end he's likely stronger and more post presence....over time they will see what works.

Ellis and Taft were definitely high risk,high reward picks. We did't have roster voids to fret about and took a reliable type in round 1-so rolling the dice on these 2 is a good tactic-though I'd have grabbed Blatche for sure. Ellis may see some minutes at SG,some at PG. His summer league play was a mixed bag,almost no assists till he last game,when Ike scored at will. Ellis had some nice offensive moments,but some summerleague matchups are easy pickins'. It will be a year before we get a sense of where he's heading. He has to make the HS>NBA jump+learn a new role. Being a lightweight midsize combo G,without even college experiance,D will be a big challenge.

Taft is a somewhat different story. Is he lazy or undermotivated? Or did a lack of skills create that impression? Whichever it was-will it change? We may have something like a burly Chris Wilcox...or a smaller,less skilled Olowokandi. As is,Taft was not a total dud,there are some big men in the league who are not as good,but we are hopeful he's more than a borderline backup on the end of the bench. If the effort is there now,his skills will need to be upgraded and he might see some minutes by midseason. If he shows no progress he might see most of his minutes in the Devo league.

I am looking forward to a nice hot contest for the SF job. Pietrus had closed the gap by season's end. I'm hoping to see Murphy and Foyle improved. There's been plenty of criticism on them,what was lacking,but both are players who will work on their weak areas. A little improvement in obvious areas,being fully healthy and in real peak condition could really make a significant difference.

I still find it hard to figure out Zarko. He had a game last year a lot of us saw when he basically was Dirk Nowitski. He drove inside,He stuck 3's,had a lot of boards. He reminds me of McHale,physically,long,bony,not real fluid-but much more agile and quick than you expect....able to produce. As basically the third man at either F spot,he will need a few more Dirk games to force the W's to create more role for him. It may happen. We COULD see some special gains with Pietrus,Zarko,Biedrens,Diogu,well beyond anything anybody is projecting,We can see some moderate but important improvements in our established regulars too-which added up is a tease that this crew could even do better than last seasons hot finish...which would mean not just in the playoffs,but a pretty tough contender.

It also could fall apart. The W's have a history that looks like a case study for Murphy's law (no relation to Troy) where forces of great power and dark intent conspired to keep this team from going anywhere at all. Our Strong second season in 05 showed Monty/Mully what DOES work-so they are not going to go backwards. We don't have a bunch of slackers and has-beens on the roster or glaring weaknesses. A big and pretty awful trade seems to NOT be in the works. The main worry then is does Baron stay full strength for a full season.

 

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting REREM:</div><div class="quote_post">
It also could fall apart. The W's have a history that looks like a case study for Murphy's law (no relation to Troy) where forces of great power and dark intent conspired to keep this team from going anywhere at all. Our Strong second season in 05 showed Monty/Mully what DOES work-so they are not going to go backwards. We don't have a bunch of slackers and has-beens on the roster or glaring weaknesses. A big and pretty awful trade seems to NOT be in the works. The main worry then is does Baron stay full strength for a full season.</div>
Murphy's law! I was thinking the same thing. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong, basically.

I pretty much agree with everything said about Diogu even though I wasn't a fan of him initially. He's really one of these types that you have to watch in college before watching summer league because he doesn't impress right off the bat like a lot of the strong and athletic power forwards do. Ike is strong, but he's not that athletic and nba fans have infatuations with the Amares, the Kmarts, the Jermaine O'neils, the hype of the Kwame Browns/Nene's/Stromile Swifts, etc. But I think Diogu's going to offer something in the way that a Tim Duncan or Elton Brand player would offer to the team whether playing 15 lbs light or 15 lbs heavier. He'll offer quiet, non-flashy production and behind the scenes impact where the stat sheet will suddenly fill up at game's end. He's untested on defense, but he's got some potential there like Elton Brand did.

The draft trend made it hard to get a read on who was going to improve our team the most from a talent/upside perspective. Do we choose Bynum when we have Biedrins and what if Bynum isn't ready by the time we're serious about making the playoffs (which is now)? Do we choose Green/Granger when we have Richardson/Pietrus/Dunleavy who have chemistry and good character (Would any of these swingmen improve our toughness inside)? Ike makes sense if we weren't going to get a post player through a trade that has all the qualities the W's like anyway unless we waited for somebody to get disgruntled like Baron Davis. Even then, most teams are hesistant to give up any kind of dominant post player that can rebound, block shots, pass, etc... There certainly weren't any of those types in the draft that weren't also huge question marks and currently limited game.

I think Diogu does everything very very well and his college stats indicate he could translate some or most of his game over to the NBA despite the fact he will have to adjust going up against bigger or longer and maybe faster opponents every night. He did play an undersized center in college, I think, but he definitely plays like a unique power forward that can create his own shot, bang inside and step back and hit college 3's, plus lead the conference in rebounds, scoring, shotblocks, free throws made. While he's not that athletic, he's not a stiff either, and can score on alley-oops, put-back dunks, and running off the ball, shooting while in motion. He has the hustle, fluidity, muscle, finesse, power and frame to create his own shot and get to the line, not to mention other intangibles like his smartness, desire, work ethic, and unselfishness. He would definitely fit in with our current roster or any roster I believe.

 

also on those ASU teams he was the only good player, so he was getting double and triple teamed constantly. He did get his shot blocked a lot in SL, but as you said he was definitely trying to force the issue, but when you explode for 37 or whatever he had, I don't care where you are playing that's good. I see him kinda like a Michael Sweetney from Georgetown or Randolph (with a better attitude) or a Byron Houston (just kidding)

 

There are other PF types with Ike's bulk-strength-mobility. What will really make him a notch better is his skills,moves,intensity. Being quick to understand the situation-and having skills to produce in that situation is real important. Often too much importance is put on the "measurable" physical stuff,but the skills,what's going on in a guy's head, is what will seperate the best. Diogu seemed to have the mental stuff as well as the physical. Further,I would tend to say he's quicker,more mobile than you think. Ike will mostly be doing his stuff in the paint. Being fast for 10 feet,getting a split second edge on an inside move is a bit different from flat out baseline to baseline sprint speed. For Ike,the deal is he's got a lot of good qualities to work with and the brains to put it togather efficiently. Ike's gonna be good-the question is,how good.

I expect he's going to be better overall than Randolph or Sweetney,with a more complete game.

 

That 4 inches is probably a pretty big difference. I am curious what the difference is between Duncans standing reach compared to Diogu's...

 

Well we know Bogut has pretty good wingspan and he and Diogu are pretty comparable in terms of standing reach, even though there's a difference of 4 or 5 inches between the two standing head to head.

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2">Ike Diogu
6' 6?" (height without shoes)
7' 3?" (wingspan)
9' 1" (standing reach)

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> At first it seems like Ike got the short stick, measuring out at a paltry 6' 6?" without shoes. A closer look reveals that his overall results were fantastic, giving him a standing reach on par with Taft and Villanueva (who will be listed at 6?10 in the NBA), and a longer wingspan than Andrew Bogut. Combine that with his terrific skill set and he could now be considered all but a lottery lock, and has an outside chance at being the first true PF taken.</div> </font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2">Andrew Bogut
6' 11" (height without shoes)
7' 3" (wingspan)
9' 2?" (standing reach)

</font></font><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2">Sean May
6' 7" (height without shoes)
8' 9" (standing reach)

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewarticle.php?a=1004

We know that Elton Brand and Ike Diogu are very physically similar, but he's got more of Zach Randolph's shooting finesse and agility doing spin moves. Basically what they say about Brand and Diogu is they got the length of a 7 footer (6'10 if you count everyone else in the nba who is longer than they are tall)
</font></font>

 

Worst case scenario he's Vic Alexander/Oliver Miller. Not saying that the kid will baloon in weight, it's just that he may be 1 step slow. I have high hopes for him though. If he can play even 1 notch above what a fit Oliver Miller played like (should be able to do this with his eyes closed), I think it was a good pick. Only time will tell.

 

The guy didn't look slow at all when he's pivoting or shaking a defender with his first step or attacking the basket dribbling hard from the elbow. But he is slow running the floor in end-to-end speed like REREM and BJM mentioned. We will wait and see, but I think before we overrate Diogu, we should also overrate athleticism. There are other ways to create shot opportunties and it all starts with his quickness of mind, his feel for the game, his aggressiveness, his fluidity in the post, his agility, and his natural strength. Power forward is a different position in that it combines the qualities of a small forward mixed with a center. Diogu can play like a defensive, low post scoring center and he can play like a small forward with the shooting and dribbling game. What's not to like except that he isn't a very good transition guy and he's a bit foul prone?

We still got Taft, Biedrins as good backup prospects for power forward, but they lack the skills and the shot range. Let's just say in this draft, Bogut wasn't going to really cover Diogu's weaknesses, and he was the other top power forward in the draft. There weren't any Amares or Kmarts, unless you count Taft, but he's got a lot to prove. That's like expecting Kwame Brown or Michael Olowakandi to have been an all-star in 2-4 years despite those two have good physical qualitiies. It's really hard to find quality power forwards that have all the ingredients. Out of 30 teams, how many are above average with being tall, fast, athletic, strong, smart, agile, skilled, etc?

I'll take agility, strength, smarts and skill because then you know he ain't a stiff, he ain't a weakling, he ain't a dumbass and he isn't horribly raw. Plus Diogu isn't too small if you consider his wingspan. All he has to do is hold somebody in the post, which I think he can do because of his strength and then use his length to alter shots. He'll need a lot of help though because there's not a lot of room for error when he leaves his feet. In SL they would try to get him to bite and the W's had no help D in case it happened. Toward the end of the SL, we had few defenders at Center. In fact, Diogu played the starting power forward and backup center for the last two games.

 

Ike played a full season of major conferance college ball and there wasn't a game where it seemed he was at any disadvantage. A guy gets 25/10 against you and you're not thinking he's not athletic or he's undersized. Aside from dribbling behind the back,there was little he didn't do well. Victor Alexander? Big Vic wasn't a standout at any level. Oliver Miller was a pretty good college player at about 295 pounds-Very long arms,good passer-but he ballooned to 330+ as a pro. I saw him in an Arkansas-LSU game where Arkansas won with a 4th quarter comeback as Miller's D stopped Shaq. Great game. Ike is not 295 lb or apt to balloon. Miller and Alexander were guys who score 12-15 ppg. Ike was around 23....among NCAA leaders. Was Larry Bird athletic? Not really.

We will see Ike next month when the games begin.You'll all see what we optimists are talking about. Victor Alexander.... .jeez

 

I've been begging for an inside presence that could score, get fouled, pass and defend for a long time. Mully answered that call even though I thought Gerald Green, shortened index finger and all, was going to be a superstar. I guess we only need one great player on our team in the backcourt if we're going to make the most out of Baron's time here. The other star or superstar we need will have to be in the center or power forward position. Hopefully, we can find one through a trade or grow our own.

I remember some forums had topics about the Warriors trying to land another disgruntled superstar the way we landed Baron, but I don't think we can trade for KG though. Not in the Western Conference and what we could offer after Baron. Indiana has a better chance of offering Jermaine O'neil for Kevin Garnett and that would solve the Pacers' passing problem right there. All the best players got everyone else involved with floor awareness and passing. But I guess, I'd settle for any talent that brings impact even if they don't pass much. It's better than constantly passing.