as obvious as this seems to me, some people might beg to differ, imo, KG owns dirk in a h2h comparison, reasons whyoffenseshooting:dirkpasing:kgrebounding:kgball handling: kgagility: kgfree through shooting: dirkdefensechecking an oppenent:kgblocking: kgsteals: kghelp defense: kgfoot speed: kgintangeblesclutch performance: kgbball iq: pushvision: pushleadership: kgability to inspire teamates: kgdurablity: pushI know people wont agree with me because their caught up in the dirk hype, but without dirk, the mavs are still a 45 to 50 win team, w/o kg, the t wolves don't win 15 games
I dont even think you should Compare these players. KG is a much better player. First of all, he's not soft in the paint, and he knows when to and when not to shoot. Dirk is very soft. Nobody wants there 7'0 ft PF to be the best 3 point shooter on there team. I mean thats not what you look for in your PF. KG on the other hand is everything you would want your big man to be. He's a good shooter, good defense player, and now's when to post up.
I'll take Dirk 9 out of 10 times...and it's not just because I'm a fan of the Mavs either.Sure he's an outside shooting big man, but that's just his game...Just because you personally like your PF on the block, doesn't mean that the PF's that don't play like that aren't as good.Dirk has lead his team to many MUCH better years than KG, and regardless of rather or not you think KG has talent around him or not, the fact that he's only gotten out of the 1st round once in like 11-12 years says alot to me.He's not a leader to me at all.He might be better defensively, but Dirk is better offensively, and while KG averages more RPG, I'll contend that that's only because of where Dirk plays on the court, and the players he has around him.Sorry, it may be obvious to some people, but it's Dirk to me.I'll only take TD at PF before him...and that's it.
I picked KG over Dirk earlier in the season, just by a bit. I thought that after these playoffs Dirk would prove enough to me personally for me to put him ahead of KG, but after how he played in that series I'm sticking with KG with a slight edge over Dirk. Hell, I am putting Nash now over him too. They are both showing who the MVP is.I already argued with you earlier this year Marvin, if you remember, so I'm not in the mood.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bohemian @ Apr 29 2007, 01:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>as obvious as this seems to me, some people might beg to differ, imo, KG owns dirk in a h2h comparison, reasons whyoffenseshooting:dirkpasing:kgrebounding:kgball handling: kgagility: kgfree through shooting: dirkdefensechecking an oppenent:kgblocking: kgsteals: kghelp defense: kgfoot speed: kgintangeblesclutch performance: kgbball iq: pushvision: pushleadership: kgability to inspire teamates: kgdurablity: pushI know people wont agree with me because their caught up in the dirk hype, but without dirk, the mavs are still a 45 to 50 win team, w/o kg, the t wolves don't win 15 games</div>Clutch performance, and ability to inspire team mates?!? It's a joke you picked KG...KG is not clutch, does not inspire his teammates...and as for leadership, He sure has alot of that...you know since he's only been out of the first round 1 time.At best those three catagories are a push IMO as well.And Nobody is caught up in Dirk hype...as a matter of fact, this is the perfect time to post this since Dirk basically stunk it up in the first round. Midway through the year, this wouldn't even be a question, Dirk would be running away with this hands down.It doesn't matter who their teammates are...a team is only as good as their best player. Dirk has had multy 55+ and 60+ win teams with different players. Basically the teams that Dirk was helping win 55+ games in 2000, are completely different than the 67 win team he had last year...winning with a changing core of players is enough for me to dismiss the notion that KG, or any players when compared, are better just because of how good their teams are without them.Fact is, we all saw how bad the Mavs were when Dirk sucked in the 1st round...so how can you say that the Mavs are still a 50 win team without him.You can't really say that at all.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASUFan22 @ May 8 2007, 12:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I picked KG over Dirk earlier in the season, just by a bit. I thought that after these playoffs Dirk would prove enough to me personally for me to put him ahead of KG, but after how he played in that series I'm sticking with KG with a slight edge over Dirk. Hell, I am putting Nash now over him too. They are both showing who the MVP is.I already argued with you earlier this year Marvin, if you remember, so I'm not in the mood. </div>Well yeah, you were one of the ones that didn't agree with me.I'm sorry, KG hasn't done enough over his career to be above Dirk IMO.And just because Dirk had a bad playoff series didn't make him lose any ground with KG on a bad Wolves team, regardless of who else was on the team.
Two playoff series, the last two he's played.And that the team is as good as their best player crap, recent years as team leaders... Billups>TMac. :-/ Billups>Kobe :-/ Billups over Carmelo :-/ Dirk over Kobe and LeBron recently?Dirk has not won anything yet and showed no leadership ability during this playoffs. Last year I thought he would be better because he was playing more inside and taking advantage of his size, but his last two playoff series he's just been taking jump shots and missing. KG has better overall talent. He's a much better defensive player and the best rebounder on the planet. I think Dirk is alergic to the paint near the basket. And offensively KG can score 20+, I believe is a little bit better ball handler and he can knock down the mid-range shot. Only thing Dirk really has on him is his 3-point shooting and points. That other guy is right, Dirk has had superior teams except for 1 year. Was 2nd or 3rd year Dirk really the leader when Nash was there, and Finley? He had 1 good year as the leader as the team and playing 5 series against tough teams over the last 3 years, he's choked in 2 of them and lost thrice. Not much more impressive than KG. The only year Garnett had a good supporting cast he almost went as far as Dirk and never disappeared like Nowitzki.We already debated but I guess I'll have to do this again. Dirk is the 7th best player in the league, imo.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ May 8 2007, 12:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Clutch performance, and ability to inspire team mates?!? It's a joke you picked KG...KG is not clutch, does not inspire his teammates...and as for leadership, He sure has alot of that...you know since he's only been out of the first round 1 time.At best those three catagories are a push IMO as well.</div>Bingo. Those three are not in favor of either player. KG is overrated as a leader, in my opinion. I've argued that point to death in another thread a long time ago, so I don't feel like doing it again.This is off-topic, but I think Dirk isn't even the MVP of his own team, I think Josh Howard is more important to the Mavericks than Dirk is...I'm not saying Dirk isn't important, but I think Howard brings more to the table than Dirk does for that Dallas team, but that's just me.
Dirk's teams without Dirk would win about 40-45 games. KG's teams sans KG would win 6-9 games. I'll take KG; it's not his fault he's only gotten out of the first round once and he put together a totally dominant season the year he won the MVP
I take KG.... put dirk on the wolves they go nowhere.. Kg on dallas they would of won Vs warriors... Cause KG would of worked the paint....
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ May 8 2007, 01:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll take Dirk 9 out of 10 times...and it's not just because I'm a fan of the Mavs either.Sure he's an outside shooting big man, but that's just his game...Just because you personally like your PF on the block, doesn't mean that the PF's that don't play like that aren't as good.Dirk has lead his team to many MUCH better years than KG, and regardless of rather or not you think KG has talent around him or not, the fact that he's only gotten out of the 1st round once in like 11-12 years says alot to me.He's not a leader to me at all.He might be better defensively, but Dirk is better offensively, and while KG averages more RPG, I'll contend that that's only because of where Dirk plays on the court, and the players he has around him.Sorry, it may be obvious to some people, but it's Dirk to me.I'll only take TD at PF before him...and that's it.</div> You name me the best player KG has had aside of him in his tenure in the NBA. Sam Cassell, and Wally Szcerbiak. You expect him to go to the playoffs when he plays with like D-Leaguers. Dirk has a more than stellar supporting cast. Run and Gun Jason Terry. A solid swingman in Josh Howard, who is an ALL STAR. Devin Harris, a perfect role player who can shot and drive. Off the bench, 6th man of the year candidate Jerry Stackhouse. Also at the center position, two serviceable players, Diop and Dampier. KG has never played with an allstar. At most he has played with efficient role players. He also managed to get the Conferance finals in 2003 and lead his team to a 58 win season.
Give me KG any day. Put him on a stacked team like Dirk has been blessed with all these years, and he gets a championship probably. Something Dirk cant do.
KG is more versitale, can play better D and doesn't choke. Give him this years Mavs and see what would happen.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>KG is more versitale, can play better D and doesn't choke. Give him this years Mavs and see what would happen.</div>Probably the same thing. I don't remember KG being one to show up during the 4th quarter. I mean isn't that the knock against him. He doesn't take well to pressure. Hence the year they did so well were the years with Cassell and Spree. Two guys who want the ball at the end. Dirk and KG to me are like those 2nd tier superstars. Superstars but not the ones who are there to finish the games with a killer instinct. Dirk showed some last year, KG has not.I'll give KG defense, passing over Dirk. I still say rebounding is a wash(KG puts up high rebound games because he's the only good rebounder on his squad). Dirk to me is the better overall scorer in terms of range and slashing. I don't see much of KG post offense to be honest. He fades a lot. That's post offense?So overall, KG is probably the overall better player. But in terms of what you get, they are the same production imo.
I'll do mine the same way...offenseshootingirk-could be push at times.pasing:KGrebounding:KGball handling: KGagility: KGfree throw shooting: Dirkdefensechecking an oppenent:KGblocking: KGsteals: KGhelp defense: KGfoot speed: KGintangeblesclutch performance: KGbball iq: KGvision: KGleadership: KGability to inspire teamates: KGdurablity: Pushumm...KG. until Dirk gets an MVP. but headtohead he's nothing close.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Marvinmartian @ May 8 2007, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'll take Dirk 9 out of 10 times...and it's not just because I'm a fan of the Mavs either.Sure he's an outside shooting big man, but that's just his game...Just because you personally like your PF on the block, doesn't mean that the PF's that don't play like that aren't as good.Dirk has lead his team to many MUCH better years than KG, and regardless of rather or not you think KG has talent around him or not, the fact that he's only gotten out of the 1st round once in like 11-12 years says alot to me.He's not a leader to me at all.He might be better defensively, but Dirk is better offensively, and while KG averages more RPG, I'll contend that that's only because of where Dirk plays on the court, and the players he has around him.Sorry, it may be obvious to some people, but it's Dirk to me.I'll only take TD at PF before him...and that's it.</div>Dirk's only gotten out of the 1st round in the playoffs, because he has a great core group. He's had Nash, Terry, Howard, and many more. KG has had nobody, but yet he still had good enough talent to win the MVP.Yes, I do think PF should actually be the big man, and post up, not shooting 3's, and out side jumpers all the time. A 3 point shooting PF, totally disregards the position of SG, and the other guards. I think Dirk's a great player, its just KG's talent, surpasses Dirk's in so many levels. Teh fact that he can post up, and shoot the outside J, and play defense, should be enough to say he's better then Dirk. Dirk, may have had the better stats for the past few years, but you also gotta think about Dirk's team. He has a much much much better team then KG, and thats holding KG back from being the best PF in the league, in stats.I believe KG is a leader. I just think he's pulling a Vince Carter move. He doesn't wanna step it up, probably, so he can get traded. It might not be true, but when he won the MVP that year, he showed great leadership qualities. Dirk shows none to me, regardless if he won an MVP or not.
