Notice Do. Not. Trade. Shaedon

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Natebishop3, Mar 26, 2023.

  1. THE HCP

    THE HCP NorthEastPortland'sFinest

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    You think the SUMMER is going to be really bad…. Just wait til the damn season hits FAMS!
     
  2. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    There is revenue sharing in the NBA. The Blazers just received an over $30 million payout for last season. They got a luxury tax payment last season too. They'll receive another $15 million in luxury tax payments this year. As long as you stay out of the tax, the NBA is set up to make money, not to mention the insane value of the franchise itself. Spending up to the tax line isn't an indication that an owner isn't cheap. Also, having Dame request a trade because you refused to re-sign Nurk and Ant isn't a good business decision either. They're doing the bare minimum to keep him just happy enough while not fully going all-in financially.

    It's certainly Jody's right to avoid the tax if she wants, but again I'm having trouble coming up with examples of teams that for multiple seasons based every transaction on not only avoiding the tax but setting themselves up to keep avoiding it. Can you think of any?

    By the way, last year they ended up almost $15 million under the tax with TPE's and the MLE going unused. This year they're going to end up over $6 million under the tax with TPE's and the BAE unused. How do we know Jody would even approve a trade for a star if it puts them into the tax? She wasn't even willing to sign a backup center when Nurk went down (would've cost about $500k to sign Noel or whoever).

    As for the repeater tax, it's the most over used excuse for a cheap owner. The only real penalty is it costs the owner more money. Sure, I don't expect to be a tax team for no reason, but it is absolutely making it harder to make trades when Cronin can't even add salary for next year in moves. Now that they've been out of the tax for 3 seasons, they'd have to be in the tax the next 4 years and only in that 4th year they'd have to pay the repeater tax. If they aren't in the tax that 4th year it wouldn't matter. That means anyone who mentions the repeater tax this summer doesn't know what they're talking about because it doesn't matter or apply at all to this situation anymore.
     
  3. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    This season has no bearing on this summer's available MLE. It only matters what their total salary is next year. Using the Full-MLE will once again hard cap them too.
     
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  4. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    The Blazers had the highest payroll in 2019-2020, but still cut salary at the deadline by trading Skal. It's not as simple as just looking at the total cap.

    The question is, will Memphis and Sacramento's respective owners be willing to do whatever it takes to win like Ballmer is trying to do. Once they have to start paying people, will they pony up the cash or will it cost them key players and hamper their ability to make further moves? Yet to be determined for those teams.
     
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  5. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Kobe only averaged 7.6 points per game his rookie season and had multiple games where he struggled or was taken out of a game by good defense. MJ had a ton of experience in college learning how to play before his rookie year. I get why people would think he's being too passive, but there is definitely a learning curve for player's when defenses start to key on them more. For Shae, New Orleans' WHOLE game plan was to take him out of the game. That's not something he was prepared for. He saw it a little bit against the Bulls with Caruso on him. I wouldn't worry about this though until later into his 2nd or 3rd seasons.
     
  6. 1 Eye Jack

    1 Eye Jack Well-Known Member

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    I agree I expect him to have tough games especially as young as he is. I love that a team decided to dedicate a player to face guard him for entire game with the defender having no other responsibilities besides shutting Sharpe down (that’s respect)! Looking forward to seeing how he plays the rest of the year, Pelicans won’t be last team to throw special defenses at him
     
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  7. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Good point. I wasn’t thinking correctly about that.

    I think that people use the “Jody wouldn’t pay” excuse too much. We don’t know the internal decision making parameters. I think Joe looked to make a deal before the deadline that likely would have put the Blazers over the cap this season. It was reported that they had a potential deal lined up, but that the cost was too great. Some people read that as Jody and the Vulcans being too cheap. It could just as well be that Joe thought the other team was trying to bend him over a table and decided there would be better options this summer. People are free to believe what they want, but should at least be willing to admit that they don’t really know.

    A big percentage of a new GM making their mark is dependent on things breaking their way. We know that Joe was aiming for a quick rebuild last summer, but that his play for another first from the Pelicans blew up in his face. He didn’t get much luck with the ping pong balls either.

    To me, it seems obvious that Cronin is doing everything he can to be in a position to make a big splash this summer. He went full tank mode pretty early. Probably the decision not to bring in another center was predicated on knowing that he wanted a lottery pick. Trading Hart got the Knicks’ pick. I would wager that gets passed on to the Bulls in exchange for the floating one the Blazers already owe them. That would free up a whole string of future firsts that can be used to make a deal this summer.
     
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  8. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    When’s the last time you saw an expiring contract be a major factor in an NBA trade? Honest question. It seems like those assets just aren’t a major factor anymore. They used to be important for teams looking to clear cap space for major free agents, but free agency isn’t what it used to be. Most of the big fish force trades and then sign extensions.
     
  9. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    It's not the expiring contract that's valuable, it's the ability to use that contract to attach to the assets they do have (i.e. the picks) to match salary in a trade.

    For example, if they had Wiseman's contract this summer and got say the 4th pick, if OG or whoever became available for that pick instead of something like Wiseman/Keon/#4 for OG they'd have to include one of Nurk or Ant, or both Nas and Sharpe and Keon or whatever, which causes other holes to fill then. It's likely the difference between building a better team and rearranging pieces in hopes it's better.
     
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  10. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    The Lakers just got 3 quality players using a big expiring contract and just one 1st round pick.
     
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  11. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I’m aware that they still are important assets, just that they aren’t all that useful by themselves. As you said, they make good salary filler for a trade based on other players.
     
  12. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    It happened last month and happens virtually every offseason as well as every trade deadline;

    The Lakers got numerous rotational players for Russell Westbrook expiring contract
    The Suns got Kevin Durant for multiple players including Jae Crowder expiring contract, who hadn't played all season

    Yes the Blazers might have had to put in some picks or other assets; but there were numerous rotation/starter level/borderline allstar players available in the summer and the Blazers didn't make a move to acquire any of them. Instead they pocketed the cash savings of cutting Bledsoe.
     
  13. SharpesTriumph

    SharpesTriumph Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but the Blazers didn't package them with other assets to improve the team; they pocketed the cash. Same as the Clippers trade, the Pelicans trade, the Knicks trade, and the Warrior trade.

    You state how fans don't have proof and know Jody is cheap. Well how do you know she isn't the cheapest owner in the NBA? Of course we all don't have every detail of information that could be out there. But we can look at the evidence, and trends that are out there and make conclusions. Its perfectly reasonable to suspect Jody is a cheap owner that does nothing to put this franchise in a position to succeed, because she hasn't demonstrated otherwise and the franchise currently sucks ass.
     
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  14. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    c'mon...are you stuck in RLEC loop? If I could pick one type of asset that is the most overrated by fans it would be expiring contracts. Maybe Portland could have leveraged EBEC; maybe they couldn't have. We don't really know

    but lets take your two examples:

    John Collins - there's nothing really indicating Atlanta would have done the deal, but it would pretty obviously had to be Bledsoe + #7. So then, Portland would have Collins but not the upside of Sharpe. And there is no reason to believe the Vulcans would have approved paying both Collins AND Grant. So it's very likely it would have been a case of just plugging Collins into Grant's role....and not having Sharpe's upside. That's not a better team and it doesn't have a better future

    Julius Randle - while I think the John Collins idea is mostly pie in the sky, this one seems more realistic. Although I am skeptical that the Knicks would have sent the 11th pick along with Randle. If they had and Portland would have drafted Jalen Williams (a good substitute for Sharpe) or Jalen Duren (needed length), then yes, it may have been a little better situation than now. But only if Randle didn't bring his bad baggage along....kind of an important if. But again, I do not believe that Seattle would have allowed Cronin to add Randle and Grant so I don't think the Blazers would be in a much better situation

    maybe the best outcome of the Randle trade (since I'm very skeptical of the Collins idea) is that having Randle's contract on the books may have forced Cronin into some negotiating discipline with Ant and Nurk last summer. He sure as hell needed some

    in other words, I think you're exaggerating the likelihood and/or benefit of those two hypothetical trade at the same time you're underrating the ancillary impacts

    *************************************************

    Hart? - the interview with him when the Knicks came to town made it really clear that the Blazers were not going to re-sign Hart unless they massively overpaid. Hart, AND his wife, were pretty determined to get back east. To get Thybulle, Reddish, and a 1st for Hart is a good parlay considering the alternative was bupkis.
     
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  15. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    Sure, Cronin could have made other moves and added more role players. Seems to me that he’s trying to get his Big 3 set first. Role players could have helped the Blazers make the playoffs, but they couldn’t make them contenders. That would have been the Olshey move that would have ensured continued mediocrity. Haven’t we been bitching about that for the past decade or so?
     
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  16. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    Also, last summer the Blazers had the big TPE which they used to acquire Grant. Instead of a $21 million TPE this summer, they have an $8 million one. That also limits what they can do. Combine that with having at least 6 of their 15 roster spots being free agents and 3 of the remaining 9 being team options/non-guaranteed, that leaves them with only Nurk, Ant, Sharpe, Nas, and Keon as their only other salary filler. Again limiting the avenues they have to improve the team while selling it as the opposite.
     
  17. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    There’s nothing wrong with pocketing cash unless that’s the sole motivation. I’m assuming that Cronin has a plan and that it’s to build his Big 3 first and then fill in the role players around them. Picking up a string of decent role players before setting the Big 3 is counterproductive because you never end up contending and your assets are only worth other mid level assets. Welcome to Olsheyville.
     
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  18. hoopsjock

    hoopsjock Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure you've said the exact same things about TPE's in the past and the Blazers used a massive one last summer. Just because previous GM's failed to take advantage of all of their ways to improve the team and weren't creative, doesn't mean the current one should be given a pass for not doing so.
     
  19. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    If Cronin is going to score an All-Star level talent this summer he’s going to either have to hit it big in the lottery to get a trade asset that will entice a trade centered around Simons and/or Nurk, or free up enough future firsts, probably by selling the Bulls on taking the Knicks’ pick, to do the same thing.
     
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  20. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    you'd be wrong
     

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