...Ben Wallace turns a team into a title contender. In order for one player to help a team contend he has to be able to atleast score, am I right? I'm not saying it's all about stats/offense, but in this case, it is. Has it occured to anyone that Bulls are gonna have to get use to 4-5 on offense? I'm sure Pistons fans can testify. They're all happy right now but wait till they see how Ben is gonna make their life tougher on offense (like it wasn't already). Also, I thought the Bulls needed inside scoring? They just took 2 steps back with this move. Finally, the Bulls were one of the best at team defense in order to make up for a lack of a low post presence on defense. Adding a shotblocker will only allow them to play more man-to-man defense but not improve them. (On a side note:Miami and Dallas dispalyed on the biggest stage: the Zone is just as capable as a man-to-man defense, it's designed to allow poor defensive teams to atleast stay competive on the defensive end [or just against superstar players], , and it is very effective at stopping teams from scoring.) The only way Ben improves them is team defense, rebounding, steals, and setting screns from the Center position. Those are good areas to improve on but they'res a lot more to being a player that turns a team into a title contender. Honestly, I think the Bulls will be the same team they've been in the past two years: a border line playoff team.
Plenty of dominant offensive players/mediocre defensive players that supposedly could help a team contend. Why can't it be the other way as well?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting durvasa:</div><div class="quote_post">Plenty of dominant offensive players/mediocre defensive players that supposedly could help a team contend. Why can't it be the other way as well?</div>I don't know, that's why I'm here today asking this question My opinion is because: a) his defense is not that good (it is good, don't get me wrong, but it's not THAT good where it's enough to make up for his offense... Zo makes a bigger impact IMO to make up for lack of offense, and even he can score) Bulls already had a good team defense to make up for a lack of a shotblocker c) Ben Wallace is a liabity on offense and a player can ONLY turn his team into a title contender if he is able to put them on his back and carry them. Wallace can't do that.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">a) his defense is not that good (it is good, don't get me wrong, but it's not THAT good where it's enough to make up for his offense... Zo makes a bigger impact IMO to make up for lack of offense, and even he can score)</div> I liked where you were going until you hit this point.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">...Ben Wallace turns a team into a title contender. </div> I don't think Bulls fans are saying Wallace turns them into a title contender. Most, from what I have come across, are saying the addition of Wallace COUPLED with internal improvement of our youth, wil.. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> In order for one player to help a team contend he has to be able to atleast score, am I right? </div> No. Rodman was a great addition to the 2nd 3 peat for the Bulls. He didn't score much. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> I'm not saying it's all about stats/offense, but in this case, it is. </div> How so? <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Has it occured to anyone that Bulls are gonna have to get use to 4-5 on offense? I'm sure Pistons fans can testify. They're all happy right now but wait till they see how Ben is gonna make their life tougher on offense (like it wasn't already). </div> Because we weren't when we played Tyson Chandler, or Luke (won't even attempt the spelling) at Center? I agree. Facts are overrated. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Also, I thought the Bulls needed inside scoring? They just took 2 steps back with this move. </div> Because the loss of Chandler and the addition of Wallace is taking two steps backwards offensively? Didn't realize Chandler was an offensive stallworth. Facts are overrated. Especially when you can just make up stuff; makes it easier.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> The only way Ben improves them is team defense, rebounding, steals, and setting screns from the Center position. Those are good areas to improve on but they'res a lot more to being a player that turns a team into a title contender. </div> Again....internal improvement.... <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> Honestly, I think the Bulls will be the same team they've been in the past two years: a border line playoff team.</div> Well...if you think so. But then again, you also think this is two steps backwards offensively for us.
Wallace, while he doesn't make us a contender on his own, sure does help. Firstly, I will point out, that Tyson Chandler, not Wallace's, defense is overrated. Tyson gets all his shot blocks off of his athletic ability. He doesn't have great instincts for it. His length and athleticism keep him alive. Wallace, on the other hand, has the instincts. Why do you think someone a shade over 6'8" is one of the best shotblockers in the league, and why someone out of the center position is top 10 in steals. He knows how to play defense. He knows how to rebound. Something that helps Chicago a lot. Aside from that, we have also somewhat addressed our lack of inside scoring with PJ Brown. While he may not be the greatest post offensive guy, he fills our Antonio Davis role. He can bang inside and give us a double double on most nights. Another reason why I think our team could potentially contend is the depth. Not many teams in the league can go as deep as the Bulls will be able to this year. We'll lilkely have Noc, Thomas, Thabo, Allen, Sweetney, Smith, Duhon, Songaila (if he returns), those people at the very least, all getting significant minutes off the bench. That's a lot of depth. That allows us to keep our starters and other main guys fresh a lot longer than most teams in the NBA. Lastly, I would like you to explain how Wallace doesn't improve our defense? He finally gives us that guy that makes people think twice before coming into the paint. He finally gives us that consistent shot blocker. He gives our other guys confidence that, if their man gets by them, they have Big Ben defending the hoop, ready to swat away their shot. So....please...explain how he doesn't help the defense?
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">Wallace, while he doesn't make us a contender on his own, sure does help. Firstly, I will point out, that Tyson Chandler, not Wallace's, defense is overrated. Tyson gets all his shot blocks off of his athletic ability. </div> I could care less how he got them, so long as he got them. And he did. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> He doesn't have great instincts for it. </div> Actually, he does. Its one of the few things he has great instincts at. Coming over from the weakside to get the block....also is a good rebounder bec. of his length.
Here is my take on the matter. Ben Wallace was top 10 in rebounds, steals, and blocks per game last year, so i do not think that his defense is overrated. He scored 7 PPG this year. The Bulls, as a team, gave up 97 points per game last year. I am guessing that that will be down to something like 94 just with the D that Wallace plays. So, technically, you could add three points to his PPG. So lets make that 10 PPG in theory. Also, with Wallace controlling the boards, I am guessing that the Bulls will outrebound their opponents by much more than they did this year. More rebounds = less chances for your opponents and more chances for you. Therefore, lets say another 3 points comes out of those. He is now up to a theoretical 13 points per. I may be way off with my calculations, but what i am trying to say is that Wallace's impact on both ends of the court (almost 4 offensive rebounds per game, for example) is what makes him so valuable. Looking at how many points he scores is not a fair way of judging his impact on the offensive end.
How does a 4 time defensive player of the year not help a team? Chandler - 5 points/9 rebounds/1 block Wallace - 7 points/11 rebounds/2 blocks Wallace is definately an upgrade over Chandler.
I wouldn`t say Wallace makes the Bulls a championship contender, but definetly more of a playoff force.
Just think about it this way. The bulls without Wallace. 7th seed in playoffs. The Bulls with Wallace will Contend for Central division championship. Bulls never really counted on offense from their front positions anyways. Aka Tyson Chandler. They also have Tyrus Thomas and Othella Harrington who can both score.
I agree with Vintage. Honestly even before they signed Ben Wallace, I would have said that they were a Top 4 team in the East, just because the way they played at the end of the season and they had the World Champs on the ropes in the 1st round. They have developed an uncanny chemistry between themselves and their team was so young. They are starting to get better. Every piece is getting better, Hinrich, Gordan, Deng, etc and they have now played with each other for 3-4 years. I sort of agree with you though Heat 4 Life, I think the signing is getting way overblown. It is an upgrade, but they already had amazing defense, so how can you go even farther up from #1? I just think they will be a championship contender with him basically through the development of the other players. This also gives a veteran leadership that they lacked.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Heat4Life:</div><div class="quote_post">...Ben Wallace turns a team into a title contender. In order for one player to help a team contend he has to be able to atleast score, am I right? I'm not saying it's all about stats/offense, but in this case, it is. Has it occured to anyone that Bulls are gonna have to get use to 4-5 on offense? I'm sure Pistons fans can testify. They're all happy right now but wait till they see how Ben is gonna make their life tougher on offense (like it wasn't already). Also, I thought the Bulls needed inside scoring? They just took 2 steps back with this move. Finally, the Bulls were one of the best at team defense in order to make up for a lack of a low post presence on defense. Adding a shotblocker will only allow them to play more man-to-man defense but not improve them. (On a side note:Miami and Dallas dispalyed on the biggest stage: the Zone is just as capable as a man-to-man defense, it's designed to allow poor defensive teams to atleast stay competive on the defensive end [or just against superstar players], , and it is very effective at stopping teams from scoring.) The only way Ben improves them is team defense, rebounding, steals, and setting screns from the Center position. Those are good areas to improve on but they'res a lot more to being a player that turns a team into a title contender. Honestly, I think the Bulls will be the same team they've been in the past two years: a border line playoff team.</div> imagine if we had wallace during the series vs the heat. it wouldve been a 7 game series.
like metioned earlier ben can only help the bulls become better, he can stop the other team from scoring in the paint.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">imagine if we had wallace during the series vs the heat. it wouldve been a 7 game series.</div> Why would you even state something like that? That is impossible, I know it's just a thought but you can't really say it because tehre would be absolutely ZERO chance of that ever happening. Considering he was with the Pistons and had a contract with them and all... So maybe you can say IMAGINE when we play the Heat again this year and have Ben Wallace....
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Mr.Wade:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would you even state something like that? That is impossible, I know it's just a thought but you can't really say it because tehre would be absolutely ZERO chance of that ever happening. Considering he was with the Pistons and had a contract with them and all... So maybe you can say IMAGINE when we play the Heat again this year and have Ben Wallace....</div> Imagine if we had wallace during the series vs the heat. it wouldve been a 7 game series.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting GatorsowntheNCAA:</div><div class="quote_post">I agree with Vintage. Honestly even before they signed Ben Wallace, I would have said that they were a Top 4 team in the East, just because the way they played at the end of the season and they had the World Champs on the ropes in the 1st round. They have developed an uncanny chemistry between themselves and their team was so young. They are starting to get better. Every piece is getting better, Hinrich, Gordan, Deng, etc and they have now played with each other for 3-4 years. I sort of agree with you though Heat 4 Life, I think the signing is getting way overblown. It is an upgrade, but they already had amazing defense, so how can you go even farther up from #1? I just think they will be a championship contender with him basically through the development of the other players. This also gives a veteran leadership that they lacked.</div> We were #1 in opposing FG%.......but not scoring defense. But other than that, I agree. ----------------- What it is; is simple. An improvement. Wallace will improve our defense. Wallace is what Chandler was supposed to become. An All Star worthy player who can defend well in the post, be a good weakside defender, rebound, block shots, and stay on the court for 35 mpg. Chandler could rebound, block shots, and is a good weakside defender. What does Wallace bring us that Chandler doesn't? Better post defense in terms of man to man. Wallace can also stay on the floor longer. Wallace also gets away with more since refs respect him more than Chandler. Anyone saying its not an improvement, or its a minimal improvement, is smoking something. Wallace is what we wanted Chandler to become. But its not going to make us a title contender. I don't think it even makes us a top 4 seed. If we do become either of those things, it will be because of internal improvement from Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, etc coupled with good contributions from Thabo and Tyrus....as well as the addition of Wallace. Not Wallace alone. We solved a piece of the puzzle. What remains to be seen is how much our young guys can improve....and what can Tyrus and Thabo bring to the table as rookies.
