I need someone, anyone to explain to me why Fisher gets 42 minutes and all this floor time. Defense - The guy is an absolute liability on the floor. He sags off his man constantly. Case in point tonight vs the kings, at least 4 times he sagged off into the paint and did not close on Bibby where he dropped a virtually unchallenged three. Fisher is always lost on defense doubling off his man. it seems the team is constantly trying to compensate for him. For some reason a pick is like kryptonite to him and he quits on the play. I watched Ellis fight through picks and get around picks that have fisher quitting taking his typical stance of hands on his hips staring. I know virtually any player in the league can take the guy off the dribble, but it is the effort he gives that kills me. Offense - Ok we all know the guy is one dimensional - a catch and shoot guy. Pretty much a poor man's damon Jones. AS a two guard he cant guard and two's in the league...whooops offense sorry. As a two guard he can't score the ball. He cant finish on his wide open lay ups. In fact he is nearly averaging an air ball a game on a lay up. He can't shoot off the dribble. He doesnt move or set screens. You usually see him camped out in a corner. SO he has very little value as a two guard. ANd he has the worst shot selection on the team, similar to MP. He is even averaging an additional air ball a game these days. Point guard- He has terrible handles, yet seems to think he can dribble through double teams, yet gets the ball ripped if he isnt losing control of the ball on his own. He can't penetrate, he doesn't drive and dish or try and set up players. He spends most of his time walking the ball up or dribbling at the top. And most of his assists come from perimeter passes. As a decision maker it is simply a joke. As a ten year veteran point guard supposedly how can this guy make the most fundamental mistakes? He gets in the air to make his passes, he passes through the air when it should be a bounce pass, he just doesnt see the lanes or envisions the angles. Watching him run the fast break is even more frightening. Has anyone seen a point guard that makes the wrong decisions game in and game out like him? He has no sense of timing. When do you see him actually deliver the ball to a teammates hands, it is always late, too hard, too low or behind them. He cant run the team and does not understand spacing on the floor. 10 year vet - Yeah okay so we brought this guy in to mentor the young guys huh? who is mentoring him? How can anyone take him seriously when he makes mistakes like a rookie every game? I believe Pietrus has a better basketball IQ than fisher. Fouling people 30 feet from the basket with the shot clock down to 3 seconds and the game on the line as he did a few games ago, getting offensive fouls when the team was up in another game. His errors are far too many to document. I just dont get how a guy if you focus on him on both ends you can see he gives little effort. Watch him sometime on defense as he sags off a man then gets burned when he cant close. It kills us. So please someone explain how pietrus makes one mistake going baseline and then throwing the ball away ...and that is the last we see of him. Or Ellis the game before letting his man go baseline and burning him. instant hook and we never see him again that game. Or ike. Pretty much every player on the team has a leash except for the liability, fisher. I just dont get it. what does fisher have some pics of monty somewhere? what does he have over monty that gives him the freedom to make errors after errors without even looking over his shoulder? I notice when the horn sounds and a player checks in fisher does not even look over to see who it is as he knows he is not going out of the game. He has made 3 consecutive turnovers one game and still stayed on the floor. I dont get it...some one please help me. And please dont tell me it is because baron is out....fisher was getting ridiculous minutes when he was playing. I know they are running the point more and more through dunleavy and they picked up bynum because they are finally recognizing fisher as the liability he truly is. But 42 minutes last night????? Anyone? why is fisher getting this much floor time?? The formula is Fisher + minutes on the floor = LOSS I guess they are pushing for the lottery ....
i think they may be playing him so much to make his stock higher. Hopefully this is a plan to trade him in the offseason *Hopes*
I don't know what's going on, ask the man who signed the Fish (as well as Foyle) for 6 years when they were both 29 or something. Then the coach... I don't know what's going on with him playing Fisher so much...he's not a point guard. Realistically speaking, maybe he doesn't have much of a choice when his only other options are a 10 day contract player or a high school raw recruit (who we don't know would average more turnovers per assist if he got more minutes, just look at what a disappointment Pietrus was with increased responsibilities). I ain't jumping to conclusions about anything especially with our media and the tendency to get wildly impatient. All I know is we need the point guard to be an extension of the coach like a Jason Kidd or a Steve Nash rather than a Stevie Francis or Stephon Marbury and then a coach who can win against other nba coaches (right now I think this poor team prevents us from seeing what the guy can really do, just look at Larry Brown or Jerry Sloan right now even with their experience and all). I never coached or developed a rookie player in any program, so I can't say what is wise and what's not wise in throwing somebody out there who might not know how to run a team. It's not fair to the rookie player who mignt not be ready (experience-wise) to run an nba team. Also, it's not fair the rest of the team who hasn't practiced much with that player. It's probably why Ellis' has few responsibilites on the court other than to play shooting guard. Don't forget that the position of point guard takes a lot of experience, responsibility and skill. Like I said before, they need to be a bit of a coach on the floor... guys like Maurice Cheeks, Avery Johnson, Mike Dunleavy Sr., Larry Brown, Scott Skiles, on and on. Whether its college or nba, we just need guys who can RUN a team, lead vocally, and distribute the ball, and not necessarily be a numbers guy and take 17 shots a game while averaging high amount of assists. The best point guards in the league are "score in the flow" type of guys who play like vets, and hopefully you have 4 other guys who can make the point guard's job easy. Right now we don't. We have no dribble penetrators or inside scorers to make it easier to score. We basically turn our shooting guards into high volume scorers because the ball hardly goes inside, but once the ball does go inside, it doesn't seem to come back out at times. Lack of chemistry and the right pieces, I think. I too love Ellis' game, but it's his first year, he skipped the college experience to become a better point guard when he's mostly played a high school shooting guard. It's the same old thing we always do (including me) when we favor the player that we've barely seen in starter's minutes and take the old guys we have for granted. Remember, when Dampier was so bad it was Foyle over Dampier? I wish we had Dampier to tell you the truth. Foyle is just so lousy. He would not start for any other team. If he was a factor in a balanced way defensively and offensively outside of shotblocks and ugly hook shots, we'd be winning I bet. No team has really won big without a good center or good PF/C duo. If we're talking Foyle + Murphy, we're always having to hide or compensate for one or the other on the offensive or defensive ends.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting iLL PiLL:</div><div class="quote_post">i think they may be playing him so much to make his stock higher. Hopefully this is a plan to trade him in the offseason *Hopes*</div> I hope we get rid of him for somebody who can run a team. I'll miss his catch and shoot talent and how he doesn't complain like I do. But, heck we need position players that make sense. When the drive and dish play doesn't come from the shooting guard, it pretty much has to be from the point guard. And I know there's other ways to simulate that kind of motion to get defenses to collapse on an unathletic/slow guy, but you need guys who can handle the ball, stick with the plays, and be quick enough to beat guys should he be forced to react to the defenses with the ball in hand. The only other way for guys like Fisher to create space is to... shoot. You'd hope that any high volume scorer can at least shoot like Kobe Bryant/Allen Iverson/Michael Redd from the foul line. Also, what happens if the point guard is overplayed? The shooting guard needs to step up. We're proud of Jrich, but he has to do more to intiate some plays rather than rely on Dunleavy, who can't do much of anything. Jrich is too much like a small forward, but he's in a shooting guard's body. Besides the two guard spot, it would be nice if plays could be run through the power forward or the center from the high post or setting up shop down on the low block. It's sort of what we used to do with Clif Robinson and Erick Dampier. Now if we had those guys, I think the inside-outside game would make a little more sense, not to mention you get solid D and offense from both. Then if you get your dribble penetration from you point guard who defends and scores within the flow, you get your shooting guard and small forward to handle most of the scoring load inside and out with or without the ball, it probably would have made it easier to win. But hey do we blame that on Dunleavy for sucking for 4 years straight? The highest draft pick in years in a shallow 2002 draft where Amare Stoudamire wouldn't work out for us? Again, I don't know, but anytime you get Foyle + Dunleavy playing well, it really helps out the team in ways you really crave more from them. Jrich the star player, especially with huge flaws and all, just cannot do it alone.
i was really pissed off when we signed fisher and right after that gary payton said he wants to play for the warriors or else retire
Here ya go Oop, ill pill and boogie loo. http://www.justbball.com/forums/showthread...t=fisher+thread
^^^custodian....good point on the foyle vs. dampier thing. it's true. its easy to back the guy with limited experience, but it's wayyy different when you get 30+ minutes a night.
PU Fish stinks! Fish is one of the Big Three Warriors that I want to get rid of along with Foyle and Dunleavy. I'm okay with putting Murphy in there, too, because of his lack of defense and passing. On the defensive side of the ball, JRich is a huge liability. In regards to the Warriors defense, I'm going to blame about 50% team defense on Monty. As much as these individual players have defensive weaknesses, they are not trying. In other words, they can do better, but Monty hasn't got them to buy into his system.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting vcwannabe15:</div><div class="quote_post">Mike Dunleavy is'nt as bad as Fisher or Foyle.</div> Dunleavy's still a huge disappointmnt on this team. Better to trade him because he won't be any good here. Maybe he can do better on the Clips with his Dad or elsewhere. If you recall, he played well for a stretch this season when he thought he was being showcased for a trade to Indiana. Furthermore, I've been a Murphy fan for some time, but this year I pretty much had it with his lack of D and passing. He's not someone who's going to help this team get to the playoffs, but more a hindrance despite his dub-dubs.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 707to805:</div><div class="quote_post">^^^custodian....good point on the foyle vs. dampier thing. it's true. its easy to back the guy with limited experience, but it's wayyy different when you get 30+ minutes a night.</div> Thanks 707. Yeah, I remember the whole Foyle starting over Dampier threads back in the day or how some of us argued per 30 minute stats to justify his new contract a season or two ago. Neither guy is worth their deals obviously. Foyle has heart, Dampier is pretty much a tin-man center (no heart), but I sure as hell prefer what Damp does compared to what Foyle can only try to emulate with playing harder. Both have bad hands, but Foyle makes Damp look like he's got some soft mittens and a Shaq-like game. I wasn't saying we should be re-signing either center, but damn we need somebody that can do what Dampier did when he was motivated and enjoying a lot of 2003's unselfish guard play. All I know is a physical big man wants good setup guys coming from point guard and shooting guard positions. Out of all the point guard's we've had recently, it seems Nick Van Exel and Baron Davis are the only guys who know how to pass inside. The obvious backups like Claxton and Fisher tend to go all the way to the hole without any interior passing. They can kickout pass to the wings, but its not the same as feeding a guy underneath the basket while right at the basket. Then vice versa with the guard/center play, guards and perimeter players that pass, want the inside guys to actually catch and finish it. Foyle plays so clumsy and tiny right now it's embarassing... the center needs to be the big guy on the floor and own the paint. He owns the bench. That was Foyle's entire career. He had great numbers in a weak college division, but against nba competition he gets smoked when it comes to doing the things needed to set the tone in a game. I question what Mullin was trying to design in this team without any inside play. Why no try to go after some guy like Chris Mihm or Joel Pryzbilla or Zaur Pachulia or somebody that can bang. We're softer than Charmin Ultra and he's got this guy locked up for big bucks. That was very questionable. That's why I don't know if Mullin is smart enough to do this job. I think a former nba coach/player would have done a better job. Has Mullin ever coached to understand the importance of balance on the floor? There's just no balance to this team whatsoever in its design. But I'm not saying fire Mullin yet because it takes time to turn a struggling franchise around. It takes a lot of luck and patience. But damn why sign Foyle for that many years at that price? Ouch.
