Free Agent Gary Payton II to the Blazers

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Blazer509, Jun 30, 2022.

  1. calvin natt

    calvin natt Confeve

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    I could understand how a players offense is hugely impacted by system, but much less so think that their defense is. If you’re a defender, tough and smart, like GP, I’m not sure how he goes to Billups system and isn’t as good. Now if you took Draymond for instance out of the GS system offensively with those weapons, yeah, he isn’t nearly as effective. But defensively he’s still elite.
     
  2. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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    I trust Billups' evaluation more than yours.
     
  3. Scalma

    Scalma Well-Known Member

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  4. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    This is absolutely false. We don't get any credit for what he's done in the past. All we are paying for is the future. As I indicated, though, it has to do with his ceiling and it also has to do with whether his last season is a blip or what kind of player he really is. If it was his rookie year, then of course it would be more assuredly what kind of player he is. Or if he was like Ant, young in age but a few years under his belt, the improvement might be a true improvement, rather than a hot streak and/or being in the right place at the right time.

    You don't think height is relevant? Really? In basketball?

    Can he play center? Can he play the power forward? He has done some of each, but... do we want to have a 6'3" guy in that spot given the rest of our roster?

    Anyone with common sense knows that while recent production matters (more than, say, what happened five years ago), at some point when there's a sudden uptick of productivity, it's more likely to be a combination of a hot streak, luck, and/or being in the right place at the right time than to be that he's suddenly a better player.

    That was just one example. And if we paid him more, then he might have wanted to leave. But we will never know as we paid a borderline NBA player more than he got from the Warriors. There's a consistent "Cronin couldn't have done better" explanation after he makes a bad move and I don't see how he keeps having to make these bad moves... why does the NBA hate Joe Cronin?
     
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  5. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    GP2 is only a guard on defense since he can lock up the other team's best guards, he really plays like a PF on offense.

    GP2 really is a PJ Tucker clone on offense, he is a more disruptive player on defense since he is better at getting in the passing lanes and taking on guards.

    The difference is that PJ Tucker can guard your 3s and 4s, with some success against slender 5s. GP2 can guard positions 1 to 3, will have some issues against bigger 4 and 5s simply because he is so much lighter than PJ Tucker, but his quickness, jumping ability and awareness might make him better against the more agile bigs that PJ Tucker.

    With the NBA's move to scoring guards as the leaders of many teams, that is a very big hole that he solves for Portland.

    He can not solve the Lebron, Kawahi style problem for Portland - because these guys are fast and big, but that's why he was so cheap, relatively, to get.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
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  6. Fairly-Hard

    Fairly-Hard Former Member Gone New!

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    Waive him? Maybe someone will pick him up?
     
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  7. Labinot41

    Labinot41 Well-Known Member

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    Just a reminder, often players who leave Golden State become a lot worse at their new Team, because Golden State
     
  8. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Q: Why do you think it clicked for Gary this year?

    Kerr: Because of the makeup of the roster. Much more able to put him in lineups that make sense because we didn't have this kind of spacing before. The addition of certain guys around him has made him more playable.

    This should be a glaring red flag for us.
     
  9. Ed O

    Ed O Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Curry, Klay, and Green (as much as I dislike him) tend to carry a lot of the water for that team, and it's easier to plug replacement-level dudes in... the same way Jordan/Pippen/Grant (or Rodman) made other guys (Paxson, Kerr, Harper, etc., etc.) look so much better.

    Do you all remember that the Raiders signed Larry Brown from Dallas? He was the Super Bowl MVP after a pretty good season playing opposite Deion Sanders. The Raiders saw his success in that system (after being a late, late draft pick like four years earlier) and signed him to a big deal... and he was exposed nearly instantly as just another guy. I won't say that Gary Payton II is that level of impending flop, but it's the same concept and it seems so incredibly avoidable.
     
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  10. Blazer Freak

    Blazer Freak Superstar in the Making

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    I disagree. Nurk is literally the only player really on the roster that flat out can't shoot the 3. I think GP is going to get a lot of time in Dame/Ant/GP/Nas/Grant lineups. Even Mike Richman noted today, we are building this roster like LAC. Roco is their backup 5. I assume Grant and Nas will be playing large amounts of time at the 4 and 5. With that in mind, GP can easily play a PF on offensive type role.
     
  11. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    Please tell me the GP2 signing was not a Blevins special.

    Amick:

    On Gary Payton II to Portland and the Damian Lillard ripple effect
    The Payton deal with Portland — three years, $28 million, per our Shams Charania — has all kinds of layers to it.

    Now for the Portland angle.

    While it has been widely assumed Lillard will accept the two-year extension offer worth more than $100 million that is expected to come his way, sources say the Trail Blazers still needed to have a strong offseason to persuade Lillard to sign on through the 2026-27 campaign (when he’ll be 36). The deadline here isn’t until the start of the regular season, and I’m being told this is not a sure thing just yet.

    The Jerami Grant addition (via trade with Detroit) this offseason was a major step in the right direction on this front, as Lillard’s desire to play with the 28-year-old forward was no secret. They’ve thrived as teammates before, of course, having won the gold in the 2020 Tokyo Olympics with Team USA. Grant’s defense is sorely needed too, as Portland finished 27th, 29th and 29th in defensive rating for the past three seasons, respectively.

    The draft was much more of a question mark, as Blazers general manager Joe Cronin’s choice to take mystery man Shaedon Sharpe out of Kentucky with the seventh pick was a long-term play. The Anfernee Simons deal is yet another positive, although the price tag was curiously high (four years, $100 million) for the fourth-year guard who had a breakout year when there wasn’t much meaningful basketball being played in Portland (Lillard, of course, only played 29 games because of his abdominal surgery, and Portland went 27-55). Big man Jusuf Nurkic is returning as well, agreeing to a four-year, $70 million deal that keeps the Lillard favorite in town.

    Yet when it comes to Payton, this is the kind of move that will surely make Lillard smile. Not only does he desperately need elite wing defenders at his side, but Lillard is close with Payton’s father, Gary Payton, the Hall of Fame point guard and fellow Oakland, Calif., native who has helped mentor him for years now.

    What’s more, Payton II, his father and Lillard have all been repped by the same agent, Aaron Goodwin of Goodwin Sports Management. There’s the Northwest tie-in for Payton II too, as he was beloved in his two years at Oregon State (2014-16).

    The Warriors’ loss, in other words, is the Trail Blazers’ gain as they attempt to keep the Lillard era alive.
     
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  12. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Of course it was... you didn't see that already? They're super close.
     
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  13. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    need to be careful gauging stats of a limited minute player against one who averaged 15 more minutes a game.
     
  14. B-Roy

    B-Roy Blazer Fan

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    People want to appease Dame, but you also don't want to make moves to appease Dame. Well what is it?

    If you think this is a Blevins special fine, you should be fine if we end up deciding to move Dame then.
     
  15. illmatic99

    illmatic99 formerly yuyuza1

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    i think it's a bit more nuanced. I highly doubt Dame would have given an ultimatum to sign GP2 or trade him. i just hope that connection was not the ONLY reason we signed him.
     
  16. B-Roy

    B-Roy Blazer Fan

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    Definitely not an ultimatum, but him having a significant voice on the roster.
     
  17. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I'll try to reserve full judgement until I see how Billups can incorporate Payton in the rotation, but at over 9M year, losing the TPE's, and being hard-capped I'm kind of stuck on the idea it was not a good decision
     
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  18. noknobs

    noknobs Well-Known Member

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    Don't like the argument about his ceiling since he's already an elite defender and I don't see that declining in the next three years. Words like "hot steak" and "luck" seem irrelevant since neither of those apply to defense. The argument about being in the right time and place is yet to be determined, as is the case with every other player who has switched teams or has been drafted. We have players that can also space the floor and he seems like a perfect fit for what Chauncey is all about.

    But I think the arguments that are valid are where is he going to get the playing time and at the expense of who, the size of the contract, and the fact we still need more size.

    So to me the more perplexing move was signing Ant to that size contract. He's going to be great but it seems like we're repeating the same mistake we did with CJ in that they'll both be undersized at shooting guard and neither is exactly known for their defense. I think we'd have been much better doing a sign and trade with him and getting a good SF/PF back and then having Hart or Payton play shooting guard.
     
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  19. TBpup

    TBpup Writing Team

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    Much like Larry Brown (horrible), hard to believe Payton will have the same impact without players like Draymond, Thompson, Wiggins and OPJ behind him.
     
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  20. calvin natt

    calvin natt Confeve

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    So what do teams do, not get good defensive players from other teams?
     
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