Wow. These are my 2 favorite PG's of all time too. Damn this is hard. But, I would probably take Gary Payton. Yes, Kidd is an excellent defender himself (7-time All defensive team) but GP was one of the best lock-down defenders I have ever seen. Add that to his 20 a night, his great great passing ability, his perfect lobs, his hustle/heart, and his swagger. I love it. Yeah so he talked trash, he never shut up, but you know what? Same with MJ, Magic, Bird, McHale, and especially Barkley. I would have to go with The Glove, but that's taking nothing away from Kidd because he is right there with him. GREAT topic man.
I agree 100% with CelticBalla, but you forgot to mention one thing. Gary Payton is the only point guard to EVER win the the Defensive Player of the Year award (if I'm not mistaken). I would take GP over JKidd, but it is definitely close.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BigMo763 @ May 12 2006, 01:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree 100% with CelticBalla, but you forgot to mention one thing. Gary Payton is the only point guard to EVER win the the Defensive Player of the Year award (if I'm not mistaken). I would take GP over JKidd, but it is definitely close.</div> Only PG ever to win it? Wow, I had no idea. Edit: I looked it up and all I got was "Gary Payton was the first guard to win the award since Michael Jordan."
Jason Kidd, better team player, better passer..Both are great defenders, though, but Kidd does more to make his teamattes better and has maintained a high level of play for a longer period of time..
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hoopskidd5 @ May 12 2006, 02:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jason Kidd, better team player, better passer..Both are great defenders, though, but Kidd does more to make his teamattes better and has maintained a high level of play for a longer period of time..</div>How can you say hes a better team player? Do you know Gary Payton or Jason Kidd? He has had his issues in his later years, but so did many greats like Pippen,MJ,and Shaq. But also, this was in their prime, Gary Payton lead his Sonics agaist a very good west, and took the Bulls longer then anyone did in the 90s, including making MJ one-dimensional, with Shawn kemp( a player never to average 20 pts even) Who was basically the Kmart of the mid 90s(great dunker,decent post scorer, below average defender) While Jason Kidd collapsed in both of his finals series, aside from that Jkidd is very streaky offensively, and no where near as good defensively as Payton was in the 90s. Payton has backed down 1s,2s,3s,and even 4s. Jason Kidd is a very good pg, hall of famer, but Payton is the most rounded PG to ever play in the NBA. There is really no comparison.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 12 2006, 12:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Only PG ever to win it? Wow, I had no idea.Edit: I looked it up and all I got was "Gary Payton was the first guard to win the award since Michael Jordan."</div>He was the only PG to win the award, not the only guard. The only other guards to win the award were:Sidney Moncrief; 1982-83 and 1983-84 (first two years the award was given out)Alvin Robertson; 1985-86Michael Cooper; 1986-87Michael Jordan; 1987-88
Jason Kidd in his prime could be considered one of the top 3 PG's ever...even outside his prime, he's still a top 5 PG IMO.Payton is a top 10 PG all time, but even in his prime, I'd still take Kidd over him.He was more of a facilitator than Payton is...and Kidd was almost as good a defender.To me, I'd just want the passing and facilitator of the offense more than a great scorer and defender like Payton.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PrimeTime @ May 12 2006, 02:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>How can you say hes a better team player? Do you know Gary Payton or Jason Kidd? He has had his issues in his later years, but so did many greats like Pippen,MJ,and Shaq. But also, this was in their prime, Gary Payton lead his Sonics agaist a very good west, and took the Bulls longer then anyone did in the 90s, including making MJ one-dimensional, with Shawn kemp( a player never to average 20 pts even) Who was basically the Kmart of the mid 90s(great dunker,decent post scorer, below average defender) While Jason Kidd collapsed in both of his finals series, aside from that Jkidd is very streaky offensively, and no where near as good defensively as Payton was in the 90s. Payton has backed down 1s,2s,3s,and even 4s. Jason Kidd is a very good pg, hall of famer, but Payton is the most rounded PG to ever play in the NBA. There is really no comparison.</div>By better team player I mean he gets more out of his teamattes and made them a better team. Yes Payton made the Sonics a very good team and has always been known as a great defender, but the nod still goes to Kidd in my book for his all-around game...
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ May 12 2006, 05:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Wow. These are my 2 favorite PG's of all time too. Damn this is hard.But, I would probably take Gary Payton. Yes, Kidd is an excellent defender himself (7-time All defensive team) but GP was one of the best lock-down defenders I have ever seen. Add that to his 20 a night, his great great passing ability, his perfect lobs, his hustle/heart, and his swagger. I love it. Yeah so he talked trash, he never shut up, but you know what? Same with MJ, Magic, Bird, McHale, and especially Barkley. I would have to go with The Glove, but that's taking nothing away from Kidd because he is right there with him.GREAT topic man.</div> Your 17 years old, you never saw Payton play in his prime.
Why do you insist on telling people who they did and did not watch?How would you know? They still show ESPN classic full games on tv all the time.
GP. He was a better defender, and his team's best at scoring. He slashed and drove to the basket more than Kidd. And I agree with Ballaholic, because i never saw live games of Payton but I've seen some all finals games of him in that season against the bulls. THAT was his prime. he was a good passer, better at stealing the ball, much better scorer, better defender, so GP is my pic. My top 5 PG's of all time btw are:1) Magic Johnson2) Oscar Robertson3) Gary Payton4) Jason Kidd5) Steve Nash
Imma give Payton some credit since he used 2 be really, really good. But since J-Kidd is still as good as ever, imma give him majority of votes.
