Sup guys, I haven't posted here in a while I have been really busy with college stuff, so I do not know if this was already talked about. Hopefully, I am back for a while. I was just wondering of what you guys thought were Ben Gordon's chances of winning both the ROY and the Sixth Man Award? In my opinion, I think Ben has a better chance of winning the 6th man award than rookie of the year. Emeka is playing real well, and I think he is a lock for ROY. As for the sixth man, there is nobody off the top of my head playing as well as Gordon off the bench IMO. I mean he is averaging 14.6 PPG, and scoring most of them in crunch time. Just wanted to get everyone else's opinion on this.
I actually think he has a very good chance of getting both. He's been great all season and he's been clutch. Okafor has great stats, but he also plays A LOT more minutes than Ben Gordon. Plus, you have to remember that Okafor was hurt for a while back in January/February, and that might end up coming back to hurt him. But, he IS the only person standing in the way of Ben Gordon from getting both in my opinion. And about 6th man, I think the only others who may deserve it are Vladimir Radmanovic out in Seattle and Ricky Davis out in Boston, both of which are having great years. However, seeing as how Ben Gordon has been so clutch and so good for Chicago, I'd be hard pressed to see him NOT get at least 6th Man. ROY could go either way between Okafor and Ben, hell, we may even see Co-ROYs like we did a few years back with Francis and Carter.
I don't think he'll get the ROY or 6th man. I am taking Okafor or even Dwight Howard over him for the ROY. 6th man I think will go to Radmanovic. He is still a top contender and I can very well be wrong.
If the Bulls continue on their march into the playoffs, and Gordon consistently puts in great play, he can very well win both awards. I wouldn't give it to Okafor. On a losing team, his numbers are expected. In fact, if Elton Brand was able to win ROY on 20/10 with the Bulls as the only one putting up numbers, the same numbers shouldn't be too much for Okafor. On a losing team, someone has to put up numbers. Gordon, meanwhile, gets great numbers off the bench, and while doing that has truly distincted himself as a top clutch player.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">hell, we may even see Co-ROYs like we did a few years back with Francis and Carter.</div> That's a great point, I didn't even think of that. Wasn't it Francis and Brand though, not Francis and Carter? Also, I'm not sure if the NBA gives out Co-Rookie of the year anymore. I mean they should have done it last year.
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Wasn't it Francis and Brand though, not Francis and Carter?</div> yeah, it was francis and brand. Anyways, I like Ben Gordon's chances at both them awards this year but i think he has a better one at getting rookie of the year. Despite having a bad team record, I still would have give Okafor the award. However, his injuries could have cost him the ROY. Ricky Davis has also played great after the break, and is IMO my favorite pick along with Vlad for the 6th man.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Trip:</div><div class="quote_post">If the Bulls continue on their march into the playoffs, and Gordon consistently puts in great play, he can very well win both awards. I wouldn't give it to Okafor. On a losing team, his numbers are expected. In fact, if Elton Brand was able to win ROY on 20/10 with the Bulls as the only one putting up numbers, the same numbers shouldn't be too much for Okafor. On a losing team, someone has to put up numbers. Gordon, meanwhile, gets great numbers off the bench, and while doing that has truly distincted himself as a top clutch player.</div> Well many teams that the rookie of the year plays on, struggles. These are the past 10 rookie of the year players... 1995-96 Damon Stoudamire, Toronto 21-61 1996-97 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 22-60 1997-98 Tim Duncan, San Antonio 56-26 1998-99 Vince Carter, Toronto 23-27 1999-2000 (tie) Elton Brand, Chicago 17-65, Steve Francis, Houston 34-48 2000-01 Mike Miller, Orlando 43-39 2001-02 Pau Gasol, Memphis 23-59 2002-03 Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 44-38 2003-04 LeBron James, Cleveland 35-47 The total record of them is 318-820 (.387). The only players who got their teams to wining records were, Tim Duncan, Mike Miller and Amare Stoudemire. The rest didn't. So in the past, a lot of times the players sucess on teams didn't affect who received the ROY award. Okafor: 35.8mpg//14.6ppg//10.8rpg//0.9apg//0.82spg//1.5bpg//1.7 TO// FG: 43.9 Gordon: 23.4mpg//14.6//2.5rpg//1.9apg//0.59spg//2.26 TO //FG: 43.2//3P: 42.9 Howard: 31.9mpg//10.8ppg//9.9rpg//0.9apg//0.83spg//1.72bpg//1.8 TO//FG: 50.1 Howard and Okafor's stats get the nod in my opinion. Okafor's team is struggling, but he still managed break a record and have that great double double streak. Howard is putting up great numbers and is on a team doing well and made just as good a turn around as the Bulls. Gordon can very well get the ROY, but I don't think so because these guys are really doing their thing and are impressing me more than Gordon.
It's definately going to be a tough decision for them. I can understand the arguement for all three players but naturally I think Gordon might have the edge. He's now thrown up 10 points in the 4th quarter of 19 games or so and if you look at the minutes played he's putting up impressive numbers.
Gordon definitely is a candidate for sixth man, and possibly a favorite, but he will have a tough time beating out Okafor for ROY...
If the Bulls will make the playoffs(which they most likely will) I'd say it'll be a tie.BG and Okafor will both get the honors...
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post"> Okafor: 35.8mpg//14.6ppg//10.8rpg//0.9apg//0.82spg//1.5bpg//1.7 TO// FG: 43.9 Gordon: 23.4mpg//14.6//2.5rpg//1.9apg//0.59spg//2.26 TO //FG: 43.2//3P: 42.9 Howard: 31.9mpg//10.8ppg//9.9rpg//0.9apg//0.83spg//1.72bpg//1.8 TO//FG: 50.1 Howard and Okafor's stats get the nod in my opinion. Okafor's team is struggling, but he still managed break a record and have that great double double streak. Howard is putting up great numbers and is on a team doing well and made just as good a turn around as the Bulls. Gordon can very well get the ROY, but I don't think so because these guys are really doing their thing and are impressing me more than Gordon.</div> I don't see how Howard and Okafor can get the nod? I mean, sure, they get more rebounds, blocks, etc., but that's expected. They're forwards, Ben is a guard. And the thing that I think can help Gordon win over those two, he's being more or equally productive offensively than both Howard and Okafor, and he's doing it in 8 to 12 minutes less. I think that can help him a lot. Cause just think of how productive he could be if he was getting 30 or 35 mpg.
Gordon is putting up just about the same scoreing numbers as Okafor in 13 minutes less. I would say Gordon has a great shot at winning both so I am picking Okafor and Gordon to tie for ROY and Gordon to win sixth man over Radmanovic or Ricky Davis.
Pretty cool thread subject. I never really thought about this. Well it would definitely be a 1st and would be a crazy accomplishment for the young guy.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Well many teams that the rookie of the year plays on, struggles. These are the past 10 rookie of the year players... 1995-96 Damon Stoudamire, Toronto 21-61 1996-97 Allen Iverson, Philadelphia 22-60 1997-98 Tim Duncan, San Antonio 56-26 1998-99 Vince Carter, Toronto 23-27 1999-2000 (tie) Elton Brand, Chicago 17-65, Steve Francis, Houston 34-48 2000-01 Mike Miller, Orlando 43-39 2001-02 Pau Gasol, Memphis 23-59 2002-03 Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 44-38 2003-04 LeBron James, Cleveland 35-47 The total record of them is 318-820 (.387). The only players who got their teams to wining records were, Tim Duncan, Mike Miller and Amare Stoudemire. The rest didn't. So in the past, a lot of times the players sucess on teams didn't affect who received the ROY award. Okafor: 35.8mpg//14.6ppg//10.8rpg//0.9apg//0.82spg//1.5bpg//1.7 TO// FG: 43.9 Gordon: 23.4mpg//14.6//2.5rpg//1.9apg//0.59spg//2.26 TO //FG: 43.2//3P: 42.9 Howard: 31.9mpg//10.8ppg//9.9rpg//0.9apg//0.83spg//1.72bpg//1.8 TO//FG: 50.1 Howard and Okafor's stats get the nod in my opinion. Okafor's team is struggling, but he still managed break a record and have that great double double streak. Howard is putting up great numbers and is on a team doing well and made just as good a turn around as the Bulls. Gordon can very well get the ROY, but I don't think so because these guys are really doing their thing and are impressing me more than Gordon.</div> Everyone who won the award were head and shoulders above everyone else in their rookie seasons stats-wise. In recent years, we've seen rookie classes with less and less talent involved and no one would be able to average 20/10 nowadays. Gordon and Okafor's scoring are pretty equal even with Gordon averaging less minutes and less shots. Look at when Amare won it over Yao. He did because Phoenix made the playoffs, ousting Houston in the process. In this case, Chicago makes it thanks to Gordon's great play, while Okafor continues to pile up stats but his team doesn't go anywhere. Who would you take?
i dont remember but do the fans vote on rookie of the year and sixth man of the year or is it voted on by the coaches.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Moo2K4:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't see how Howard and Okafor can get the nod? I mean, sure, they get more rebounds, blocks, etc., but that's expected. They're forwards, Ben is a guard. And the thing that I think can help Gordon win over those two, he's being more or equally productive offensively than both Howard and Okafor, and he's doing it in 8 to 12 minutes less. I think that can help him a lot. Cause just think of how productive he could be if he was getting 30 or 35 mpg.</div> Yes but other than scoring or stepping up in the clutch, Ben Gordon has not really done anything that will make me take him over Okafor and Howard. The thing you said that was key is offensively. Both Howard and Okafor have been playing consistent offense and defense. They are both amongst the leaders in the NBA in rebounds and blocks. I know becuase of their position, they are obviously better than Gordon here, but other than scoring, I don't see anything else that gives Ben the ROY. In his 8 to 12 less minutes he also averages 2.2 turnovers per game which ranks him 5th in the NBA in turnovers per 48 minutes. These two have had all around great years in many categories. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Okafor shatter Shaq's record for the double-double streak? So Okafor has broken records, is amongst the leaders in top 5 for rebounds per game, double-doubles top 10 in double-doubles, and is top 25 in blocks per game as a mere rookie. Howard has been no slouch either. He is averaging a double double, I think he is the youngest player with 20 rebounds or something like that in which he has done 3 times, is 15th in the NBA in blocked shots a game, and is 22nd in the league in FG%. I would take him over Gordon as well. <div class="quote_poster">Quoting Tip:</div><div class="quote_post">Everyone who won the award were head and shoulders above everyone else in their rookie seasons stats-wise. In recent years, we've seen rookie classes with less and less talent involved and no one would be able to average 20/10 nowadays. Gordon and Okafor's scoring are pretty equal even with Gordon averaging less minutes and less shots. Look at when Amare won it over Yao. He did because Phoenix made the playoffs, ousting Houston in the process. In this case, Chicago makes it thanks to Gordon's great play, while Okafor continues to pile up stats but his team doesn't go anywhere. Who would you take?</div> I wouldn?t say and head and shoulders above everyone. There are many rookies that were not head I?ll break it down: 1995 Damon Stoudamire took the ROY with: 40.9mpg/19.0ppg/4.0rpg/9.3apg/1.4spg/0.27bpg/3.8TO These Guys Are Head over Shoulders Less??: Jerry Stackhouse 37.5mpg/19.2ppg/3.7rpg/3.9apg/1.06spg/1.10bpg/3.5TO Antonio McDyess 30.0mpg/13.4ppg/7.5rpg/1.0apg/0.71spg/1.5bpg/2.03TO Michael Finley 39.2mpg/15.0ppg/4.6rpg/3.5/1.04apg/0.38bpg/1.62TO 1996 Allen Iverson took the ROY with: 23.5ppg/4.1rpg/7.5apg/2.0spg/4.43TO These Guys Are Head over Shoulders Less??: Stephon Marbury 34.7mpg/15.8ppg/2.7rpg/7.8apg/1.0spg/3.13TO Antoine Walker 36.2mpg 17.5ppg/9.0rpg/3.2apg/1.28spg/0.65bpg/2.8TO Shareef Abdur-Rahim 35.0mpg/18.7ppg/6.9/2.2/0.99spg/0.99bpg/2.81TO 1997: Tim Duncan: YOU GOT ME 1998: Vince Carter took the ROY with: 35.2mpg/18.3ppg/5.7rpg/3.0apg/1.1spg/1.54bpg/2.2TO These Guys Are Head over Shoulders Less??: Paul Pierce 34.0mpg/16.5/6.4rpg/2.4apg/1.71spg/1.04bpg/2.35TO Mike Bibby 35.2mpg/13.2ppg/2.7rpg/6.5apg/1.56spg/2.92TO Jason Williams 36.1mpg/12.8ppg/3.1rpg/6.0apg/1.9spg/2.86TO 1999 Steve Francis and Elton Brand: YOU GOT ME 2000 Mike Miller took the ROY with: 29.9mpg/11.9ppg/4.0rpg/1.7apg/0.62spg/1.18TO These Guy Is Head over Shoulders Less??: Kenyon Martin 33.4mpg/12.0ppg/7.4rpg/1.9apg/1.15spg/1.66bpg/2.03TO Darius Miles 9.4ppg/5.9rpg/1.2apg/.63spg/1.54bpg/1.81TO 2001 Pau Gasol took the ROY In the weakest class ever: YOU GOT ME 2002 Amare Stoudemire He won it in a close race with Yao Ming, Caron Butler, and Dajuan Wagner behind him. 2003 LeBron James Need I say more? There isn?t a head and shoulders difference like you say for most of them. People in the class had legit chances of wining the rookie of the year. Also you mentioned where their team is. When Damon Stoudemire won it, the Raptors went 21-61 and when Iverson won it, the Sixers went 22-60. Vince Carter didn?t make the playoffs either and neither did LeBron James while Anthony led his team the playoffs that season and the Nuggets improved by a remarkable 25 games. The fact of the matter is situations are different. Okafor was put into probably the toughest situation there is. He was drafted by an expansion team which is much tougher than a rookie who has the help of four other lottery picks and a couple of solid veterans.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">Yes but other than scoring or stepping up in the clutch, Ben Gordon has not really done anything that will make me take him over Okafor and Howard. The thing you said that was key is offensively. Both Howard and Okafor have been playing consistent offense and defense. They are both amongst the leaders in the NBA in rebounds and blocks. I know becuase of their position, they are obviously better than Gordon here, but other than scoring, I don't see anything else that gives Ben the ROY. In his 8 to 12 less minutes he also averages 2.2 turnovers per game which ranks him 5th in the NBA in turnovers per 48 minutes. These two have had all around great years in many categories. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Okafor shatter Shaq's record for the double-double streak? So Okafor has broken records, is amongst the leaders in top 5 for rebounds per game, double-doubles top 10 in double-doubles, and is top 25 in blocks per game as a mere rookie. Howard has been no slouch either. He is averaging a double double, I think he is the youngest player with 20 rebounds or something like that in which he has done 3 times, is 15th in the NBA in blocked shots a game, and is 22nd in the league in FG%. I would take him over Gordon as well.</div> Here's a thought for you. Okafor is on a LOSING team. That's not going to help him in the long run. Plus, look at the position he was put in. He IS the franchise player. He is the person they look to to score first before anyone else. Ben Gordon on the other hand, is a 3rd option until crunch time comes. Plus, he's put up impressive stats consistently and has been amazing when clutch time comes around. To show that, he leads the league with 18 double digit scoring fourth quarters. And another look thing, look at the position they actually play. Okafor is a forward, as is Howard, so they're bound to pull down more boards and get more blocks than Ben Gordon, so I don't see how you can use that against him. He's 6'3". It's obvious that he's not going to pull down 8 or 10 boards and get a block or two every night, so to use that AGAINST him is very unfair. I think that he deserves it much more than the other two. He's been the biggest reason as to why Chicago comes away with close games now compared to earlier in the season. Plus, they're in playoff contention and for that matter, in a race to potentially win that division and get homecourt. Whereas you look at Orlando, and they've been struggling as of late. They've cooled off considerably since an unexpected and impressive start. Than you look at Charlotte, whom, after starting off 7-13, have totally fallen apart. Chicago on the other hand, battled back after an 0-9 start to get to 32-28, which currently gives them the sixth seed in the East, just a half game out of fifth and only 5.5 games out of the division lead. And a huge reason for this is because of Ben Gordon. So personally, I think you should take that into account. He is a huge reason why they're winning games. Okafor has been good however his team has been horrible. Dwight Howard has been good, but he's not been consistent at times, especially offensively. And beyond that, his team is sliding. So, if you actually take everything aside from stats into account, I think Ben Gordon should win it over Okafor and Howard.
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting mrj18:</div><div class="quote_post">I wouldn?t say and head and shoulders above everyone. There are many rookies that were not head I?ll break it down: 1995 Damon Stoudamire took the ROY with: 40.9mpg/19.0ppg/4.0rpg/9.3apg/1.4spg/0.27bpg/3.8TO These Guys Are Head over Shoulders Less??: Jerry Stackhouse 37.5mpg/19.2ppg/3.7rpg/3.9apg/1.06spg/1.10bpg/3.5TO Antonio McDyess 30.0mpg/13.4ppg/7.5rpg/1.0apg/0.71spg/1.5bpg/2.03TO Michael Finley 39.2mpg/15.0ppg/4.6rpg/3.5/1.04apg/0.38bpg/1.62TO</div>If you ask me, yes, Stoudamire was head and shoulders above everyone else. Stack had a bit more points than him but Damon had more steals and much more assists. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1996 Allen Iverson took the ROY with: 23.5ppg/4.1rpg/7.5apg/2.0spg/4.43TO These Guys Are Head over Shoulders Less??: Stephon Marbury 34.7mpg/15.8ppg/2.7rpg/7.8apg/1.0spg/3.13TO Antoine Walker 36.2mpg 17.5ppg/9.0rpg/3.2apg/1.28spg/0.65bpg/2.8TO Shareef Abdur-Rahim 35.0mpg/18.7ppg/6.9/2.2/0.99spg/0.99bpg/2.81TO</div> Again, I would think Iverson is head and shoulders above everyone else. Leading rookies in scoring by about 5ppg is impressive. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">1998: Vince Carter took the ROY with: 35.2mpg/18.3ppg/5.7rpg/3.0apg/1.1spg/1.54bpg/2.2TO These Guys Are Head over Shoulders Less??: Paul Pierce 34.0mpg/16.5/6.4rpg/2.4apg/1.71spg/1.04bpg/2.35TO Mike Bibby 35.2mpg/13.2ppg/2.7rpg/6.5apg/1.56spg/2.92TO Jason Williams 36.1mpg/12.8ppg/3.1rpg/6.0apg/1.9spg/2.86TO</div>With Carter, the Raptors had their best season ever, and his stats were better than Pierce's, who was his closest competitor. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post"> 2000 Mike Miller took the ROY with: 29.9mpg/11.9ppg/4.0rpg/1.7apg/0.62spg/1.18TO These Guy Is Head over Shoulders Less??: Kenyon Martin 33.4mpg/12.0ppg/7.4rpg/1.9apg/1.15spg/1.66bpg/2.03TO Darius Miles 9.4ppg/5.9rpg/1.2apg/.63spg/1.54bpg/1.81TO</div>The Magic made the playoffs; Nets and Clippers didn't. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2002 Amare Stoudemire He won it in a close race with Yao Ming, Caron Butler, and Dajuan Wagner behind him.</div>His team made the playoffs. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">2003 LeBron James Need I say more? </div>Cleveland improved by over 20 games with the same roster and Lebron. And the hype is just too much to say no to. It should be pretty evident that players who win the ROYs either have to help their teams to success or have much better stats than everyone else.
I think he deserves ROY above any other rookie in the league right now, just my opinion. I think if anything though, Emeka and him will share honors, I just don't see him being picked over Emeka. As for 6th Man award, I think that is actually a possibility. He is coming off of the bench for the Bulls and putting in amazing nights often. He is very clutch, something we haven't seen in a rookie in awhile (don't mention LeBron, he isn't as clutch as Gordon).
