Besides krstic at center, moore was their only force downlow. And they replace him with another center in Jamal Magloire? How does that move make any sense at all? They fail to sign Moore to a new contract, and then replace him with an even worse center, who you already have a very serviceable one, sorry but these set of moves by the Nets dont make any sense. Ontop of that, they pay him 4 million, what are they thinking?? The Nets are also into the luxury tax threshold too, or just under it by like 2 million. Thats absurd, Stefanski is an idiot.
First of all, as much as I dislike him, Magloire is a better basketball player than Mikki Moore. Moore was also too expensive, got ridiculously overpaid, and got even more than Magloire. Moore is an NBA journeyman who "miraculously" had his best season in his contract year. He cashed in, he's overpaid as hell, and he's still the same player that was glorified last season in New Jersey because they had no other bigs and he was forced to play major minutes. People always say "_____ is a product of Steve Nash, he's not as good as he may seem on TV." Well, I think Moore is nothing more than a journeyman. He's a backup worthy of 15 minutes a night at best.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticBalla32 @ Jul 19 2007, 09:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>First of all, as much as I dislike him, Magloire is a better basketball player than Mikki Moore. Moore was also too expensive, got ridiculously overpaid, and got even more than Magloire. Moore is an NBA journeyman who "miraculously" had his best season in his contract year. He cashed in, he's overpaid as hell, and he's still the same player that was glorified last season in New Jersey because they had no other bigs and he was forced to play major minutes. People always say "_____ is a product of Steve Nash, he's not as good as he may seem on TV." Well, I think Moore is nothing more than a journeyman. He's a backup worthy of 15 minutes a night at best.</div>How is Magloire a better basketball player than Moore? He can rebound just as good as Magloire, is a better defender, better at the strike, he led the league in fg% last year and a better shotblocker to boot. I dont get where your coming from when you mean that, Magloire doesn't beat Moore in anything. He also didnt play major minutes eithier, playing only around 25 a game in the reg. season.
Magloire is definately a better player than Moore, and comes at a cheaper price. Moore is a skinny PF who can hit open jumpshots. That's about it. He is not tough, can't guard the Dwight Howard's or Zach Randolph's of the East, and not a good rebounder. With Krstic, who is somewhat soft and a bad rebounder, the center/PF of the team needs to be a big guy who can snatch rebounds and guard the best big men of the East. Magloire is a 9-10RPG guy who is a very big body and won't get pushed around down low. He is also a decent offensive player that will mooch off Kidd/VC/RJ/Krstic.
Before last season, Moore's best season was with the Clippers when he averaged 5 points, 3 rebounds (This isn't including the '99-'00 when Moore only played 29 games). Magloire's worst season was his rookie year when he averaged 5 points 4 rebounds. Magloire has played in the All-Star game. Moore's good season was attributed by Krstic's injury and it was a contract year. With Magloire playing with Kidd, I bet he puts up just as good of numbers if not better than Moore's last season. Overall, Magloire is no doubt the better player.<u>Career stats:</u>Magloire - 9 points 8 reboundsMoore - 6 points 4 reboundsThere's a reason why Moore has only played 382 games over 11 seasons (42%) with 7 different teams.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 19 2007, 05:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Magloire is definately a better player than Moore, and comes at a cheaper price. Moore is a skinny PF who can hit open jumpshots. That's about it. He is not tough, can't guard the Dwight Howard's or Zach Randolph's of the East, and not a good rebounder. With Krstic, who is somewhat soft and a bad rebounder, the center/PF of the team needs to be a big guy who can snatch rebounds and guard the best big men of the East. Magloire is a 9-10RPG guy who is a very big body and won't get pushed around down low. He is also a decent offensive player that will mooch off Kidd/VC/RJ/Krstic.</div>Magloire has averaged 10 or more rpg only once in his career. Mikki Moore is also a center, who played forward a lot this season just due to injures. Moore is also not skinny, hes pretty built infact at 220 lb., hes also a better free throw shooter, he led the NBA in fg% last year and in the playoffs was shooting 56% and playing heavy minutes. Last year as well, magloire only averaged 1 rebound more than moore. For you guys to say Magloire is the better player just because he can averaged 1 more rebound a game while being totally inferior on the offense end is just stupid. Also to add, Mikki Moore can defend better than averaged as well. Mind you, he held bosh to 17 ppg. In the second round, he held big z to 11 points (he averaged 19 in the first round) as well. Mikki moore is a very underrated player and Magloire doesn't have the advantage over him by 1 more rebound per game.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Magloire has averaged 10 or more rpg only once in his career. Mikki Moore is also a center, who played forward a lot this season just due to injures.</div>Moore has never averaged over 5 rebounds in a season before. Yes, Magloire only averaged 6 rebounds last season, but at the same time you have to realize he was sharing the paint with Randolph and Aldridge, while Moore was sharing the paint with Collins and Nachbar. Jason Kidd was the leading rebounder for the Nets last year, and put up the most rebounds of his career because the Nets had no reliable rebounders downlow. In '04-'05 in Milwaulkee, the season before last, Magloire averaged 9.5 rebounds. IMO, and stated by the facts, Magloire is a better rebounder, and overall player, than Moore by far.Like I've stated before, there's a reason why Moore has only played 382 games over 11 seasons (42%) with 7 different teams.
Not a big fan of Magliore, HOWEVER, IMO it's quite obvious Mikki Moore's season last year was a fluke.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 05:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Magloire has averaged 10 or more rpg only once in his career. Mikki Moore is also a center, who played forward a lot this season just due to injures. Moore is also not skinny, hes pretty built infact at 220 lb., hes also a better free throw shooter, he led the NBA in fg% last year and in the playoffs was shooting 56% and playing heavy minutes. Last year as well, magloire only averaged 1 rebound more than moore. For you guys to say Magloire is the better player just because he can averaged 1 more rebound a game while being totally inferior on the offense end is just stupid. Also to add, Mikki Moore can defend better than averaged as well. Mind you, he held bosh to 17 ppg. In the second round, he held big z to 11 points (he averaged 19 in the first round) as well. Mikki moore is a very underrated player and Magloire doesn't have the advantage over him by 1 more rebound per game.</div>220lbs?!? Kobe is 220lbs, that is not impressive whatsoever. Magloire is a very solid 6'11'', 265lbs. Much more suited to play against Shaq, Dwight, Curry, etc...Last year Magloire was a bench player that just didn't fit in with the team. He is a 9-10RPG guy, especially when he will be playing next to a very soft rebounder in Krstic. As you saw last year with the Cavs killing the Nets on the boards, the Nets need rebounding from the bigs.Moore is a weak defender. Bosh is also an extremely skinny player, and Collins did a lot of work on Bosh as well. Collins was on Z in the 2nd round. Moore is not big enough to play ANY center's and big PF's of the league.All of Moore's offensive number are a result of playing next to arguably the best PG in the league, an elite player in VC, among other players that take any offensive pressure whatsoever off of Moore. This year Moore would be going back to the bench and would not be as productive as he was last year (remember, he was a 6PPG guy before Krstic went down in late December). Magloire will do all the stuff a center needs to do by Krstic that Moore is incapable of doing, and is proven he can score. With all 4 of the Nets other starters being dangerous offensive players, Magloire will benefit from them like Moore did in 06-07.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 19 2007, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>220lbs?!? Kobe is 220lbs, that is not impressive whatsoever. Magloire is a very solid 6'11'', 265lbs. Much more suited to play against Shaq, Dwight, Curry, etc...Last year Magloire was a bench player that just didn't fit in with the team. He is a 9-10RPG guy, especially when he will be playing next to a very soft rebounder in Krstic. As you saw last year with the Cavs killing the Nets on the boards, the Nets need rebounding from the bigs.Moore is a weak defender. Bosh is also an extremely skinny player, and Collins did a lot of work on Bosh as well. Collins was on Z in the 2nd round. Moore is not big enough to play ANY center's and big PF's of the league.All of Moore's offensive number are a result of playing next to arguably the best PG in the league, an elite player in VC, among other players that take any offensive pressure whatsoever off of Moore. This year Moore would be going back to the bench and would not be as productive as he was last year (remember, he was a 6PPG guy before Krstic went down in late December). Magloire will do all the stuff a center needs to do by Krstic that Moore is incapable of doing, and is proven he can score. With all 4 of the Nets other starters being dangerous offensive players, Magloire will benefit from them like Moore did in 06-07.</div>Ok so I mightive overrated him abit on that weight thing, (I was trying to make him look strong) Back to topic though, 1. I dont get what you mean by Bosh being skinny. He drops 22 a game, Moore lowered that total to 17. Hence him being a solid defender. Ontop of that, Bosh is bigger than Moore.2. I didnt watch that series much, but Moore was eithier on Z or Gooden, both who had sub par 2nd rounds compared to their first.3. What does it matter that he has players that can take off offensive pressure off him? Hes still lightyears ahead of Magloire offensively. My point was that, while being just as good or almost as good defender and rebounder as Magloire, he can also score way better and more efficiently. Rarely do you see Moore miss when he is open.4. Ill agree to saying Magloire is the better rebounder, but he is not 'wow moore is nothing compared to him when it comes to rebounding' at best, especially last year, he is better than Moore by like 2 rpg. 5. Defensively, Moore can hold is own as well. You really never saw Magloire last year gaurd the Shaqs or the Howards because Aldridge did that, having only started 23 games last year.6. Lastly, he may play with Jason Kidd, but Magloire will never be as good as a scorer as moore or shooter even playing with Jason Kidd, Moore is just that much better.<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Moore has never averaged over 5 rebounds in a season before. Yes, Magloire only averaged 6 rebounds last season, but at the same time you have to realize he was sharing the paint with Randolph and Aldridge, while Moore was sharing the paint with Collins and Nachbar. Jason Kidd was the leading rebounder for the Nets last year, and put up the most rebounds of his career because the Nets had no reliable rebounders downlow. In '04-'05 in Milwaulkee, the season before last, Magloire averaged 9.5 rebounds. IMO, and stated by the facts, Magloire is a better rebounder, and overall player, than Moore by far.Like I've stated before, there's a reason why Moore has only played 382 games over 11 seasons (42%) with 7 different teams.</div>Moore has also never played a full season with legit minutes. This is his first year playing 25+ minutes year round, and you saw the improvement he made over his past years. His past also has nothing to do with that, hes improved vastly over the past couple years and thats why hes where hes at right now.Again the main idea of my statements is that, Magloire may be a margin or two ahead of Moore defensively, but Moore is a way better offensive player. The Nets settled for Magloire who cant play on the offensive end, and beat out Moore by one or two rebounds per game, while playing almost the same mediocre defense as Moore. Defensively there is nothing Magloire totally beats Moore at all that much. hes also decline excessively in the past 3 years in rebounding, he was once at 10 rpg, now hes down to 6, and I dont see that changing by a mile or two.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 06:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Back to topic though, 1. I dont get what you mean by Bosh being skinny. He drops 22 a game, Moore lowered that total to 17. Hence him being a solid defender. Ontop of that, Bosh is bigger than Moore.2. I didnt watch that series much, but Moore was eithier on Z or Gooden, both who had sub par 2nd rounds compared to their first.3. What does it matter that he has players that can take off offensive pressure off him? Hes still lightyears ahead of Magloire offensively. My point was that, while being just as good or almost as good defender and rebounder as Magloire, he can also score way better and more efficiently. Rarely do you see Moore miss when he is open.4. Ill agree to saying Magloire is the better rebounder, but he is not 'wow moore is nothing compared to him when it comes to rebounding' at best, especially last year, he is better than Moore by like 2 rpg. 5. Defensively, Moore can hold is own as well. You really never saw Magloire last year gaurd the Shaqs or the Howards because Aldridge did that, having only started 23 games last year.6. Lastly, he may play with Jason Kidd, but Magloire will never be as good as a scorer as moore or shooter even playing with Jason Kidd, Moore is just that much better.</div>1. Just because Bosh is skinny doesn't mean he is a bad scorer. he is a good scorer, but is not a strong post player. Moore was a good fit on him because he is a more perimeter oriented big man. If you put Moore on guys like Duncan, Yao, Shaq, Howard, Boozer, or Brand, he is gonna get punished badly. Moore is far too weak and small of a shotblocking presence to guard guys like that.2. Both also grabbed more than their season averages in RPG, and same with guys like Bron and Varejao. Considering the big factor in that series was rebounding, it is clear Mikki Moore just can't get it done down low in the areas the Nets need (he didn't even average 5RPG vs the Cavs).3. Lightyears ahead of Magloire offensively? The only thing Moore can do is the midrange jumpshot. Magloire has had 3 seasons where he has scored more in Moore's best year.4. Moore has had only one season at 5RPG, and considering that the only other decent big man on the team is also a terrible rebounder (Collins), that is astonishing. Magloire has had 4 seasons of 8RPG or more. Magloire grabbed only 6RPG last year because he didn't get to start with the Blazers' loaded front court, playing 5 less minutes than Moore (and that is including before Krstic's injury...afterwards he was closer to 8-9 more minutes than Magloire).5. As I said before, Magloire can't guard the big PF's and regular centers of the league. Amare, Brand, Shaq, Howard, Curry, Randolph, Boozer, Yao....they'd all punish Moore in the post.6. Moore can do nothing but take jumpshots, and has had only 1 good season in the NBA. Magloire has been in all star, averaging 13.6PPG in '03-'04. And that is without so much offensive pressure taken off of him. He will flourish offensively with the Nets...just like K-Mart, just like Moore.Listen, Moore is a nice backup PF. He brings some nice spot up midrange jumpshooting...but that's IT!!! He is a horrible rebounder, cannot defend the premier post players in the league...and if he cannot do those 2 things, he is absolutely useless. With Krstic coming back, Nets do not need offense, they need rebounding and a big body who can play those post players. Magloire does that.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Again the main idea of my statements is that, Magloire may be a margin or two ahead of Moore defensively, but Moore is a way better offensive player. The Nets settled for Magloire who cant play on the offensive end, and beat out Moore by one or two rebounds per game, while playing almost the same mediocre defense as Moore. Defensively there is nothing Magloire totally beats Moore at all that much. hes also decline excessively in the past 3 years in rebounding, he was once at 10 rpg, now hes down to 6, and I dont see that changing by a mile or two.</div>Yeah, because the Nets really need Moore's scoring to support Kidd, Carter, Jefferson, and Kristic. Magloire is a better rebounder and a better defender. He put up similar numbers to Moore last year despite sharing time with Randolph and Aldridge, while Moore had virtually no competition. The Nets need toughness inside, not a decent scorer. Magloire is a perfect fit for them. Magloire has also proven what he's capable of over time. Moore has had one good year. How many guys have we seen have one good season and then get drastically overpaid? Marc Blount anyone? You say he never got a chance to play big minutes before, and there's a reason for that. He's simply not that great. The only reason he got so many minutes last season was because Kristic went down. Mikki Moore is a nice player, but he's not worth what he's been offered on the open market. Jamal comes at a cheaper price. In short, Magloire fits their team needs better, is a more proven player, and demands less money. This is a no brainer in my eyes. The Nets made the right call, and now I fear nobody in the Atlantic will be able to touch them this season.
Plain and simple....Mikki Moore was playing his ass off for the MLE this offseason, and he got it. The Nets were not going to give him that deal, which I totally agree was the right move. They bring in Magloire who is solid and can work the low post. You can also move Krstic to PF if you want since hes been working on his mid to long range game during his injury rehab, it would make him a more versatile player. I think this was certainly the right move for the Nets.
Is Magloire the better fit? Probably. if you gave Moore the same amount of money, would you get more value for your buck? yes. I still stick behind the point that Magloire is not that much of a better rebounder and defender, but Moore provides more scoring. Sure you guys may say well they dont need, but with Magloire your losing more than your getting. Your grabbing an extra maybe 5 rebounds a night, or stop one player from taking a couple of shots per night. With Moore, your getting nearly 10 more points a game on nights, decent rebounding and decent defense. The Nets dont even have to worry about money anyways, they are like 10 M over the cap anyways, so it wouldnt have hurt to pay Moore 1 or 2 m more.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Is Magloire the better fit? Probably. if you gave Moore the same amount of money, would you get more value for your buck? yes. I still stick behind the point that Magloire is not that much of a better rebounder and defender, but Moore provides more scoring. Sure you guys may say well they dont need, but with Magloire your losing more than your getting. Your grabbing an extra maybe 5 rebounds a night, or stop one player from taking a couple of shots per night. With Moore, your getting nearly 10 more points a game on nights, decent rebounding and decent defense. The Nets dont even have to worry about money anyways, they are like 10 M over the cap anyways, so it wouldnt have hurt to pay Moore 1 or 2 m more.</div>I totally see what you're saying and would agree with you except that the whole thing about the Nets for 2007-2008 is that they need pieces that will fit into this team if they want to make a legit run in the East, not extra offense and a slacking off defense and rebounding. The Nets have plenty of scoring options on the team. I mean if Mikki came back, his scoring number would decrease cause Krstic would get the ball more anyway. So what this team needs is better rebounding (which they greatly struggle with last season) and defense (which they lacked at key moments), and that is what they are getting from Magloire. The team doesn't need Jamal to score big points, nor would they have needed Moore to. Magloire fits into what the Nets need to make a run in the East, and that's why they did this move.Honestly if I was Rod Thorn I would have thought about this move in the first place, and if Mikki would come back for less money then I would have signed him back for his energy and decent play but also signed Magloire for what he can bring to the table.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Is Magloire the better fit? Probably. if you gave Moore the same amount of money, would you get more value for your buck? yes. I still stick behind the point that Magloire is not that much of a better rebounder and defender, but Moore provides more scoring. Sure you guys may say well they dont need, but with Magloire your losing more than your getting. Your grabbing an extra maybe 5 rebounds a night, or stop one player from taking a couple of shots per night. With Moore, your getting nearly 10 more points a game on nights, decent rebounding and decent defense. The Nets dont even have to worry about money anyways, they are like 10 M over the cap anyways, so it wouldnt have hurt to pay Moore 1 or 2 m more.</div>You do realize 5 more rebounds a night is twice the amount that Moore grabs, right? You do realize that if Moore grabbed 5 more rebounds vs Cleveland, the Nets would have at the very least brought the series to 7?10 more points a game? WTF are you talking about? Moore is a 10PPG guy, Magloire has scored more PPG than Moore's best season on 3 different occasions. Moore is far from a better player. He can't do anything but shoot the 12-15ft jumpshot, and on a weaker team like the Kings, defenses will actually stick a defender on him and he will once again be a 6PPG guy. Moore is a terrible rebounder, can only defend PF's/center around his weight (very few of them), and is a one dimensional scorer.As I said before, Moore will have K-Mart syndrome and do crap with the Kings. His FG % will drop to around 50% and his PPG down. Magloire on the other hand will grab 8-10 boards a night and also chip in with 12-14PPG a night. Book it.
I'm not going to read through all the posts, just post what I think of Nets letting Moore go. It's truly simple, money. Money for a player who happened to play well in one season. One the keyword. And he's the kind of player who benefitted from Jason Kidd. Which to me, will benefit Magloire who was not only cheaper but came at 1 year. Meaning if he does not perform well, Nets can move on next year without hassle. The same can't be said if they were to bite on Moore's contract. Who is a one year wonder, let's just watch Moore perform after receiving his contract after years of being a journeyman. The track record for those kinds of players are not high success rate.So really in conclusion, it's a smart move by the Nets. Moore did do well with the Nets and their system, but Nets came away with an cheaper, short term replacement who should by all means duplicate what Moore brought. My question, is how is that stupid on the Nets part?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Nitro1118 @ Jul 19 2007, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>You do realize 5 more rebounds a night is twice the amount that Moore grabs, right? You do realize that if Moore grabbed 5 more rebounds vs Cleveland, the Nets would have at the very least brought the series to 7?10 more points a game? WTF are you talking about? Moore is a 10PPG guy, Magloire has scored more PPG than Moore's best season on 3 different occasions. Moore is far from a better player. He can't do anything but shoot the 12-15ft jumpshot, and on a weaker team like the Kings, defenses will actually stick a defender on him and he will once again be a 6PPG guy. Moore is a terrible rebounder, can only defend PF's/center around his weight (very few of them), and is a one dimensional scorer.As I said before, Moore will have K-Mart syndrome and do crap with the Kings. His FG % will drop to around 50% and his PPG down. Magloire on the other hand will grab 8-10 boards a night and also chip in with 12-14PPG a night. Book it.</div>Thats just because he doesn't get any touches. In the 2nd round, he showcased that, scoring 15 a game in that series, and shooting a startling 60% from the clip. Moore also wasnt asked to drive the ball eithier, he was just asked to set screens and grab the ball at the high post. He can drive when he needs too, and I saw that in the Toronto series.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Is Magloire the better fit? Probably. if you gave Moore the same amount of money, would you get more value for your buck? yes. I still stick behind the point that Magloire is not that much of a better rebounder and defender, but Moore provides more scoring. Sure you guys may say well they dont need, but with Magloire your losing more than your getting. Your grabbing an extra maybe 5 rebounds a night, or stop one player from taking a couple of shots per night. With Moore, your getting nearly 10 more points a game on nights, decent rebounding and decent defense. The Nets dont even have to worry about money anyways, they are like 10 M over the cap anyways, so it wouldnt have hurt to pay Moore 1 or 2 m more.</div>You're not losing scoring though because Kristic is coming back. If Kristic was healthy last year then Moore isn't getting nearly as many shots, meaning his scoring would be the same as Magloire's. Moore would've had his offensive role reduced and be forced to play just like Magloire. Why should the Nets pay him more money to play like Jamal Magloire when they can just sign Jamal himself for less cash?
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaptorFan#1 @ Jul 19 2007, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Thats just because he doesn't get any touches. In the 2nd round, he showcased that, scoring 15 a game in that series, and shooting a startling 60% from the clip. Moore also wasnt asked to drive the ball eithier, he was just asked to set screens and grab the ball at the high post. He can drive when he needs too, and I saw that in the Toronto series.</div>Cleveland clogged the lane, thus VC struggling mightily (35% shooting). They did not put anyone on to guard Moore so they could help with those other players. With the Kings he will have a lot more pressur eon him, and he can't do anything but shoot jumpers. He is a poor ballhandler and not athletic or strong enough to take anyone off the dribble and get a dunk. Any dunk he had this year was because he was wide open and Jason kidd found him.As I said, he'll have K-Mart syndrom, and offensively Magloire will benefit just as much as Moore did.
