Forum Game How do you build a contender around Dame in the next couple years?

Discussion in 'Portland Trail Blazers' started by Natebishop3, Feb 9, 2022.

  1. Tince

    Tince Well-Known Member

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    Portland is always going to require a MVP level player and an all-star or 2 all-NBA players to really contend.

    We've struggled to obtain one of those guys, but we're lucky to have one right now. The difficult part is adding that second one. The league has shown the best way for a small market team to obtain an all-NBA players is through the draft or trade. Free agency isn't likely at all.

    Obviously with the draft, the better the pick you have the better chance you're going to have. The negative in Nate's question is that given Dame's age and elite draft talents being 19-20 years old, it's hard to imagine a player being ready to be that All-NBA player in the next 3 years.

    As for trade, I think it's obvious the teams that are giving up all-NBA players in the last few years are typically looking for a hard rebuild which includes a good pick, young players, and nice salaries. Portland has not had those things for years. However, I would argue right now, we have Ant, potentially two lottery picks, and really zero bad contracts. Assuming we don't crap the bed and sign Evan Turner, Meyers Leonard, Festis, Harkless, and Crabbe to $200m this summer and instead, sign prudent, shorter deals, we should be in a position to jump in if a team like Minnesota wants to waive the white flag on Townes, Beal in Washington, or maybe the Brooklyn or Boston plans don't work out next year and they decide to pivot.

    That's what I think the path is. Do I think we're more than 50% likely to hit that path? No. Do I think a 100% rebuild is likely to yield two all-NBA players? No, because I have not seen any evidence that we are likely to find one person as good as Dame, let alone two, so I would prefer we stick with a bird in the hand and try to get lucky adding one more vs having to get lucky twice.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2022
  2. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    I see your logic about the draft pick...but in my view, it's a bit flawed for a simple reason: if trading Dame is going to yield the type of return so many here are anticipating, then the Blazer pick won't be that good anyway. People are expecting a talent back like Simmons or Jaylen Brown...just to start. And the anticipated draft assets aren't going to be special because no lottery team will be trading for Dame. It will be contenders or near contenders and those teams will have some shitty draft picks for the 2-4 years after trading for Dame. And getting any future picks 5-7 years out are pretty worthless, For chrissakes, Simons will be near Dame's age when those pick(s) might be good ones

    I think the pool of teams willing, and able, to trade for Dame and his super-max will be real limited. 3-4 at most
     
  3. LayneStaley

    LayneStaley Well-Known Member

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    Here’s my plan…

    Send a 2023 1st for Grant

    Resign Ant and Nurk(Meh)

    Sign Miles Bridges in FA

    Draft AJ Griffin with our pick

    Draft BPA with NO pick or if it lands at 12-14 send it to Indy for Turner

    Dame/FA
    Ant/Hart/Keon
    Bridges/Griffin/Hughes
    Grant/Nas/Winslow
    Nurk/Turner/GB3

    Fuck I don’t know, is that better than what we just had? I’m sure there are salary cap problems with this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2022
  4. wizenheimer

    wizenheimer Well-Known Member

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    who are you trading for Grant?. If it's the TPE, AND you re-sign Ant there won't be any cap-space to sign Bridges
     
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  5. 1 Eye Jack

    1 Eye Jack Well-Known Member

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    i think it’s got to be a trade, teams like the lakers, Boston and Philly could potentially break up if they have bad post seasons
     
  6. BonesJones

    BonesJones https://www.youtube.com/c/blazersuprise

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    We owe our 2023 2st to Chicago.

    If you keep Ant and Nurk you don't have enough money for Bridges. Charlotte probably matches anyway. We also can't use cap space and our TPE.
     
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  7. LayneStaley

    LayneStaley Well-Known Member

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    Maybe just use the pick on the best big available and pass on Turner?
     
  8. Natebishop3

    Natebishop3 Don't tread on me!

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    Dame and Ant as a starting backcourt is such a bad idea. It's so annoying. A younger and cheaper CJ. Because it worked so well the first time.
     
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  9. maxiep

    maxiep RIP Dr. Jack

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    When we trade Gerald Wallace for the #6 pick.
     
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  10. HomerLovesKoolAid

    HomerLovesKoolAid I have a well-known member.

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    I'm hoping Ant evolves differently. Maybe with Billups coaching he'll be a better defender. I think he's shown better playmaking skills than CJ at an early stage.
    We'll see. It might work
     
  11. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    I really think there are a lot of things that would have to happen that are between unlikely and just not going to happen. We can't be a contender with these two guards. Dame's defense is so weak that he needs a defensive specialist back there with him and Ant will never be that. So this first step probably falls under "just not going to happen" but we need Ant to have a big season that pushes his value up and then sign and trade him to a team that really needs a young lead guard with big time offense for a big 3 and D two guard.

    We need Nas to come back healthy and shooting a little more consistently, this one is actually pretty likely.

    We need to get lucky and win the number one pick which is highly unlikely and means the tank needs to be fully on because I think Jabari Smith will be ready from day one to make a huge impact on this team with his combination of length, athleticism, ability to put it on the floor, defensive instincts on the perimeter, weak side shot blocking and distance shooting, he's the perfect front court pairing with Nurk.

    We need the Pelicans pick to convey to us as high as possible and we need to knock it out of the park.

    Both picks need to be contributors next season and that is also highly unlikely but could be done.

    We need to use the remaining cap space to put one or two more really solid contributors on the bench.

    The rotation will have to be Dame, 3 and D guy from Ant trade, Nas or a better SF if there was one that we could land in free agency or with the Pelicans pick, Jabari, Nurk, just looking at the draft our Pelicans pick will likely be a wing so either that wing or Nas, FA front court player, FA guard that can instigate the offense but can also defend multiple positions, hopefully some of our young guys that will get a lot of opportunity this season and we have control of Trendon, GB3, Keon and maybe even Didi really pop and can provide the rest of the depth we need.

    or

    There is also the possibility Josh Hart could be that 3 and D big guard next to Dame then that would only cost us 13M. Now for really unlikely: If Ant just has a massive end to the season and the Celtics keep sucking (compared to their expectations) and we can get someone they like with the Pelicans pick maybe S&T Ant+Pelicans pick to the Celtics for Jaylen Brown... I know it's crazy talk but maybe just maybe. Let's say Nurk re-signs for 15-18M for that first season. With the new cap the first pick Jabari Parker would make about 10M. We have Nas, Justise, Keon, Didi and Greg making a total of 15M. We could probably re-sign Trendon for starting at 3M. So that's 10 guys at 128M that we've spent not having signed anyone but our players and picks. Since we didn't use any free cap space to sign another free agent we would have the full 12M MLE and might be able to get Tyus Jones for that. Then fill out the roster with three min level guy but they should be young GLeaguers and undrafted free agents at 1M a piece. That would make Vulcan really happy because it would put us right at 143M when the tax will start at 145M.

    PG: Dame, Tyus
    SG: Hart, Keon
    SF: Jaylen, Nas, Justice
    PF: Jabari, GB3
    C: Nurk, Trendon


    I left Didi and the three min level young guys off the depth chart because they won't play much at all. I know that is a very unlikely rotation but it's not completely impossible. If it happened that would be a deep 11 man rotation with two all stars in Dame and Jaylen and a guy that will probably be rookie of the year in Jabari. That team could contend as early as next year but so much would have to go right for us.

    These scenarios I came up with are outlandish fantasies, they're not completely impossible but they are highly highly unlikely and highlight just how unlikely it is that we build a contender around Dame and I don't think the organization agrees with me about Dame and Ant, so I actually think that makes building a contender around Dame impossible. So my real expectation is that we re-sign or match an offer on Ant for a little too much, we re-sign Nurk for a little too much, we get two guys that need development in the draft. We strike out with the attempts to get an impact free agent or an impact guy through an unbalanced trade and use our cap space on someone youngish, overpaid and underwhelming. That result to the off season will get Cronin fired and an outside GM hired. It will also put Dame on the edge and after it becomes apparent that the team isn't built to contend and that him and Ant are about as complementary as him and CJ were, Dame will ask out pretty early in the season which will be granted to him buy the deadline. Let's just hope we get a really nice haul for him.

    We will still have Ant, Nas, GB3, two new lottery picks and most likely Trendon to go around what is hopefully something special we get for Dame. Hopefully we'll also dump Nurk for draft assets and an expiring or young players. That will be a real reset.

    I guess the big question at that point becomes what year will Chicago finally get our pick?
     
  12. blazerkor

    blazerkor Well-Known Member

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    If cap space is an asset that gives us the ability to rebuild then I agree with. The sad truth of it though is that cap space is not that for our team. The other sad truth is that we didn't get enough in terms of draft capitol to make the idea of unbalanced trades plausible. So in reality we absolutely do not have more assets or a better chance at a successful rebuild than we did two weeks ago. Those players needed to be moved but if the idea was to rebuild around Dame those players needed to bring back more consolidated win now talent and if the idea was to hit reset, those players should have been traded for far more first round draft capital and bad contracts. This thing is being mismanaged thinking that we can either sign high level free agents or that other teams are going to make moves like we just did giving up legit talent that equal more wins for cap space and very little draft capital or value in the way of young prospects. That's not how real GMs do it.
     
  13. AldoTrapani

    AldoTrapani Well-Known Member

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    You can’t. Dame just wants his supermax
     
  14. DDolla

    DDolla Well-Known Member

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    When we have cap space, no one is available…lol. Just sad
     
  15. tiredhunter

    tiredhunter Well-Known Member

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    Step 1: Move Blazers to Las Vegas.

    Step 2a: Acquire, rename, and move the Bucks to Portland.
    Step 2b: Waive Dame.
    Step 2c: Threaten/blackmail/bribe all other teams to not claim.
    Step 2d: Sell & Rename the Las Vegas (Whatever's)

    Step 3: Sign Dame to the new look Bu...Blazers.
     
  16. Idog1976

    Idog1976 Well-Known Member

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    Now note I didnt' say flexibility. I said assets. That doesn't mean empty salary, but actual talented players people desire or real assets such as draft picks that teams value. With that in mind can you expand upon how you think our TPE's, singular first round pick, a grip of 2nd rounders, Josh Hart, Keon Johnson, and Winslow is better than CJ, Nance, Powell and Roco? I'm not saying you're wrong. I want to hear your argument on that and I am sorry if you have to repeat yourself clearly there are several threads on this issue and some of them are hella long. You can copy and paste a response if you want.

    I don't see how we can trade what we have left to trade (Nas, Nurk, Keon, Justise, and Hart) with TPE and get a star forward. I don't see how we can trade Ant at this point nor do I think we should as we then would be losing the only other star potential guy other than Lillard who has realized that potential.
     
  17. Wizard Mentor

    Wizard Mentor Wizard Mentor

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    The PFs look particularly pedestrian, which dampens my hope of receiving an allstar PF.
     
  18. e_blazer

    e_blazer Rip City Fan

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    I see absolutely no problem in acquiring a proven All-Star PF using nothing but the TPE, cap space and maybe a second round pick….




















    As long as the PF is named Kevin Love.
     
  19. andalusian

    andalusian Season - Restarted

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    The Blazers do not necessarily have more trade assets, they just have more liquid assets. Moving CJ's big contract or Norm's long contract requires special circumstances and a limited number of partners are available for it. What the Blazers have now are liquid assets that can be moved easily - so in theory, it would be easier to trade now.
     
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  20. 1 Eye Jack

    1 Eye Jack Well-Known Member

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    Did we get better assets no did we get more flexibility yes. It was stated by another poster we have
    Do we have better assets no but flexibility may be even more valuable and allow us way more possibilities. To me no one on this team is untouchable if you want to build a championship you have to sacrifice. Say Boston or lakers want to blow it up and wants Ant or Nas, trade exception, 2 first rounders for Brown or Davis do you pass that up, maybe but you have the option to make a deal like that. Am I disappointed we didn’t get 1st in clips deal absolutely but I’ve moved on and see the some possibilities
     
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